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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by PrairieChicken View Post
    I am looking forward to seeing the Classic community split in half and hate each other.
    That happened at launch of Classic - "retailers have ruined classic" was one of the hottest topics for well over a year.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    I did play both at a high level, and no drake sarth was comparable to magtheridon difficulty. Easily puggable, and the mount was sold all the time over it. And don’t forget it could be done 10 man, automatically
    Making it easier

    And as for naxx 2.0, it was the easiest raid content ever put into WoW imho. So easy that they had to put in undying and immortal achievements just to make it spicy. Notice that those two achievements never managed to make it Into any other raid in WoW history… I wonder why…

    ICC was hard on heroic, but it can’t even compare to pre nerf sunwell which was the hardest content ever put into WoW. Wotlk didn’t have anything that compared, and being able to do 10 or 25 man invalidated it too on some other level
    You are so utterly wrong about Naxx. And the mount for Sartharion was only available during 3 drake so that frther proves you didn't actually play Wrath when it was current.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    I did play both at a high level, and no drake sarth was comparable to magtheridon difficulty. Easily puggable, and the mount was sold all the time over it. And don’t forget it could be done 10 man, automatically
    Making it easier

    And as for naxx 2.0, it was the easiest raid content ever put into WoW imho. So easy that they had to put in undying and immortal achievements just to make it spicy. Notice that those two achievements never managed to make it Into any other raid in WoW history… I wonder why…

    ICC was hard on heroic, but it can’t even compare to pre nerf sunwell which was the hardest content ever put into WoW. Wotlk didn’t have anything that compared, and being able to do 10 or 25 man invalidated it too on some other level
    The mount only came From 3D though, right? Yes?

  4. #184
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    I would absolutely play Wrath for the pvp. The rest of it would kind of depend on the changes. Do they add LFD right away? Will it be the original broken OP DKs, or final patch DKs? Will ICC be released in wings or all at once? etc... Doing Ulduar again would be fun, and I enjoyed Northrend leveling.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    You are so utterly wrong about Naxx. And the mount for Sartharion was only available during 3 drake so that frther proves you didn't actually play Wrath when it was current.
    The mount was something we were giving away by the end, it isn’t that good looking kid. Generic dragon mount #36. I played wotlk at the very highest level, it was one of the easiest expacs

    Notice how the undying and immortal achievements exist only for naxx 2.0. Because they knew it was hilariously easy. Those achievements never existed for a raid before or after naxx 2.0. You ever wonder why? Because no raid has ever been the that easy. You could legit go the entire raid without a single death in the entire raid. What other raid can you say that about?

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    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    The mount only came From 3D though, right? Yes?
    Yea but it can be done 10 or 25 man I believe. It’s been since legit it was fresh content since I’ve done it, but sarth was an easy fight. Especially for guilds for had the immortal or undying achievements.

    I like wotlk, but in terms of difficulty, it didn’t get good til ulduar and later icc

    Naxx was so easy they added achievements for no one in the entire raid dying (no other raid has ever had that) and sarth 3 drakes was dumb easy.

    It was a hell of a lot easier than early tbc magtheridon, and wotlk doesn’t have any content that rivals sunwell

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    You are so utterly wrong about Naxx. And the mount for Sartharion was only available during 3 drake so that frther proves you didn't actually play Wrath when it was current.
    Do you have undying and immortal? If you don’t, you don’t have a relevant opinion in this discussion tbh

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    The mount was something we were giving away by the end, it isn’t that good looking kid. Generic dragon mount #36. I played wotlk at the very highest level, it was one of the easiest expacs

    Notice how the undying and immortal achievements exist only for naxx 2.0. Because they knew it was hilariously easy. Those achievements never existed for a raid before or after naxx 2.0. You ever wonder why? Because no raid has ever been the that easy. You could legit go the entire raid without a single death in the entire raid. What other raid can you say that about?
    From what Patch are you actually talking where it was easy?
    The Undying overall was pretty tough in the original Patch for most, it's one of the rarest achievements. In the ICC Patch it was faceroll of course, you could get your title, but the mount was gone.

    But once again, it was not because of the raid as it was really faceroll, but because of the playerbase. The Hardmodes and achievements were the first step into the far harder Raid design we have now. It would be faceroll again of course in a Classic Version, but every raid in Classic is a joke for modern players. But fact is, even for the bad playerbase back then Naxxramas without achievements was a joke already, and that is a bad sign.

    The start of WotlK was simply garbage.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopsnacker View Post
    From what Patch are you actually talking where it was easy?
    The Undying overall was pretty tough in the original Patch for most, it's one of the rarest achievements. In the ICC Patch it was faceroll of course, you could get your title, but the mount was gone.

    But once again, it was not because of the raid as it was really faceroll, but because of the playerbase. The Hardmodes and achievements were the first step into the far harder Raid design we have now. It would be faceroll again of course in a Classic Version, but every raid in Classic is a joke for modern players. But fact is, even for the bad playerbase back then Naxxramas without achievements was a joke already, and that is a bad sign.

    The start of WotlK was simply garbage.
    I forgot they kept the title in when they removed the mount, I should clarify… unless you have the title AND the mount, I don’t wanna hear someone say how wotlk start was hard when it was dumb easy.

    I did them as fresh content and it was dumb easy and our guild wasn’t even cutting edge during wotlk

    Naxx 2.0, and sarth, and the pvp boss you got from taking the zone (I haven’t done it since legit wotlk) were all so crazy easy

    It wasn’t until ulduar hard modes that wotlk stepped it up a notch. That first tier was amongst the easiest first tiers in WoW history. Ulduar and icc were top notch tho, but that isn’t what was discussed here

    Some dude was trying to claim sarth 3 drakes and naxx 2.0 were hard content when in fact, they were not. Those “no one dying the entire run” achievements only exist in naxx, not any of the other raids in WoW history. It’s almost like the devs knew for certain it was too easy
    Last edited by justandulas; 2021-06-29 at 11:50 AM.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Some dude was trying to claim sarth 3 drakes and naxx 2.0 were hard content when in fact, they were not. Those “no one dying the entire run” achievements only exist in naxx, not any of the other raids in WoW history. It’s almost like the devs knew for certain it was too easy
    Do you have the Immortal/Undying title?

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by scelero View Post
    Do you have the Immortal/Undying title?
    i do, and the protodrakes that went with it. Immortal was a nightmare tho, we lost it 3x on KT due to player incompetence, not because the fight was hard. We had 3 raiders who found new, and innovative, ways to die during KT. One night, we lost it at 10% due to a chain heal healing a MC person. The raid was silent like a funeral had taken place.

    WOTLK didn't get any challenging content really until Ulduar, which was a fantastic raid. Ulduar and ICC both were great. NAXX and trials tho, were not. Naxx was a cheap knock off version of its original self made so easy a caveman can do it, and trials... had it's own set of problems like timegating.

    Ask yourself this, why haven't they added undying/immortal achievements to any raid before or after naxx 2.0? Because those achievements and mounts were and still are, VERY highly praised today and are some of the few prestigious items in WoW. They had to add those "No dying" achievements into naxx because they probably realized during their testing than Naxx was hilariously undertuned to a broken degree, and just thought "why not just add achievements to it" rather than fix the #'s to make it more comparable to real naxx

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Ask yourself this, why haven't they added undying/immortal achievements to any raid before or after naxx 2.0? Because those achievements and mounts were and still are, VERY highly praised today and are some of the few prestigious items in WoW.
    Because their difficulty is pretty controversial.

    First off, you only get 1 Attempt per ID, similiar systems was ironically also tried in Wotlk with the 1hour limit on Algalon, 50 Attempts limit in TotGC and the limit attempts in ICC Heroic - None of those were attempted again because they sucked (except Ra-den, where it also backfired because players were smarter than Blizz)
    Second, social pressure, no one wants to be the guy that fucked up Immortal, yet this pressure ironically led to a lot of failures on some obvious mechanics.

    No one was nervous on a regular Heigan kill, quite a few people were nervous when Immortal / Undying was on the line.

    This is how Immortal achieved its difficulty, it wasn't hard when viewed in a vacuum, but rather its surrounding elements.

    They repeated similiar achievements, Ulduar had one but with every boss seperately listed, you didn't have to do in a single run.
    The Chosen in Trial of Valor was similiar, except it was on a personal level and not raidwide.

    Both of which vastly nerfed the second factor because the mistake of one will not ruin it for the whole team.
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    They had to add those "No dying" achievements into naxx because they probably realized during their testing than Naxx was hilariously undertuned to a broken degree, and just thought "why not just add achievements to it" rather than fix the #'s to make it more comparable to real naxx
    I doubt it, the drop in difficulty generally follows suit with the design goals of Wotlk, which frankly was to make raiding more accessible.
    Let's be real:
    -Addition of a 10man mode
    -Extremely nerfed 5man heroics
    -Lack of difficulty in OS / EoE / VoA

    The drop of difficulty was clearly intended.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2021-06-29 at 01:21 PM.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    I forgot they kept the title in when they removed the mount, I should clarify… unless you have the title AND the mount, I don’t wanna hear someone say how wotlk start was hard when it was dumb easy.

    I did them as fresh content and it was dumb easy and our guild wasn’t even cutting edge during wotlk

    Naxx 2.0, and sarth, and the pvp boss you got from taking the zone (I haven’t done it since legit wotlk) were all so crazy easy

    It wasn’t until ulduar hard modes that wotlk stepped it up a notch. That first tier was amongst the easiest first tiers in WoW history. Ulduar and icc were top notch tho, but that isn’t what was discussed here

    Some dude was trying to claim sarth 3 drakes and naxx 2.0 were hard content when in fact, they were not. Those “no one dying the entire run” achievements only exist in naxx, not any of the other raids in WoW history. It’s almost like the devs knew for certain it was too easy
    They also existed in Ulduar. But you could do it in multiple IDs. No one was allowed to die in the first pull of an encounter per ID. If you managed to get it done they were permanently checked. Champion of Ulduar and Conqueror of Ulduar. Barely anyone has these, too^^ (I do f'yeah)

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    people complain today about not having anything to do lol,well wrath was the pinacle of nothing to do besides raid and pvp
    You just defined the perfect xpac for me. (prob why I loved wrath!). All I want to do is raid and pvp. That's an ideal game state. All the other stuff "to do" is just grindy BS that I find miserable. I know everyone is different but an expac where I can just login, do fun activities, then logout sounds amazing. I'm so tired of feeling like I have to do hours and hours of stuff that I hate in order to have fun is what killed SL for me.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by scelero View Post
    Do you have the Immortal/Undying title?
    Not sure if you played at that time.. but people pugged those titles.

  14. #194
    Only way I play it is if there is no dungeon finder. At least until the xpac is over.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by themortalgod View Post
    You just defined the perfect xpac for me. (prob why I loved wrath!). All I want to do is raid and pvp. That's an ideal game state. All the other stuff "to do" is just grindy BS that I find miserable. I know everyone is different but an expac where I can just login, do fun activities, then logout sounds amazing. I'm so tired of feeling like I have to do hours and hours of stuff that I hate in order to have fun is what killed SL for me.
    this could very well be accurate,i also did have my most fun in wow during wrath,but then look at wod,it had the biggest sub drop and besides the legendery ring had nothing extra you needed to do,the raiding was also top tier imo,granted wrath did provide more raids and the pvp system was better

  16. #196
    Personally I'm waiting for any new MMO to be good. WoW has been shitty to me for at least 3 expacs now, probably longer - and going back and playing expansions that I already played the hell out of doesn't appeal to me either. Every single one of those classic relaunches has a shelf life, and not a terribly long one.

  17. #197
    Can't wait for Classic Wrath, soloing heroic dungeons and clearing first raid tier before even hitting max level. Should be dope.
    Your persistence of vision does not come without great sacrifice. Let go of the tangible mass of your mind, it is only an illusion. There is no escape.. For the soul burns on everlasting encapsulated within infinite time. A thousand year journey at the blink of an eye... Humanity is dust..

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    The mount was something we were giving away by the end, it isn’t that good looking kid. Generic dragon mount #36. I played wotlk at the very highest level, it was one of the easiest expacs

    Notice how the undying and immortal achievements exist only for naxx 2.0. Because they knew it was hilariously easy. Those achievements never existed for a raid before or after naxx 2.0. You ever wonder why? Because no raid has ever been the that easy. You could legit go the entire raid without a single death in the entire raid. What other raid can you say that about?

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    Yea but it can be done 10 or 25 man I believe. It’s been since legit it was fresh content since I’ve done it, but sarth was an easy fight. Especially for guilds for had the immortal or undying achievements.

    I like wotlk, but in terms of difficulty, it didn’t get good til ulduar and later icc

    Naxx was so easy they added achievements for no one in the entire raid dying (no other raid has ever had that) and sarth 3 drakes was dumb easy.

    It was a hell of a lot easier than early tbc magtheridon, and wotlk doesn’t have any content that rivals sunwell

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    Do you have undying and immortal? If you don’t, you don’t have a relevant opinion in this discussion tbh
    Lol wow. Just wow. I don't understand why you insist on being perpetually wrong at all times. You blatantly didn't play Wrath when it was current because all you're doing is parroting what other people have said who are ALSO wrong.

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Lol wow. Just wow. I don't understand why you insist on being perpetually wrong at all times. You blatantly didn't play Wrath when it was current because all you're doing is parroting what other people have said who are ALSO wrong.
    You can not only check my armory for wotlk, even tho that lock has been retired for eons and is an alt at best, my alt would still have more achievements than your main when it comes to wotlk

    If you actually got past your own ego for five seconds, you’d know I’m right. The only challenging thing with wotlk launch was immortal and undying title, and even that was less challenging and more about perfection

    Ulduar was the first raid in wotlk to offer an iota of challenge, kid

    You are projecting a little too much and it’s clear that YOU didn’t play wotlk at a high level, or you’d know every word I said was factual. In fact, immortal and undying was being pugged weekly prior to ulduars launch. Pugs were doing immortal and undying while it was the top content. Let that sink in

    Wotlk early on, was by far, the easiest WoW tier of all time. Even Mc was harder than work naxx

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    Not sure if you played at that time.. but people pugged those titles.
    THANK YOU! this is a man who clearly played WOTLK and isn't just speaking from nostalgia he didn't earn like another poster here.

  20. #200
    At least, going by the standard now set, we get a late patch release with phased content.
    Day 1 fixed DK's (not the "ice as tank spec" thing we had at the start with them being OP as heck).

    Consider me VERY ready Hopefully race change comes sometime during TBC as my DK was Worgen. I'll level it again if I have to but...

    Will enjoy the hell out of TBC. Wrath was the obvious peak of WoW. There's zero chance it's not coming.
    Last edited by mercutiouk; 2021-06-29 at 10:55 PM.
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