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  1. #321
    Back in WOTLK, yes not on some private server or w/e, I remember killing many heroic 5 mans bosses in 10 secs. Best I saw was 6 secs with a arcane mage.

    But, LFG system is nice. Even as a tank I can still not always find groups fast, its just annoying. Dont get the hate - Okay so you dont chat much with ppl, and like...being social, but LFM spam is also bored.

    Anyway I like TBC more. It was the better exp for me.
    Last edited by Djuntas; 2021-07-11 at 04:24 PM.
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  2. #322
    The Insane Dug's Avatar
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    Not really waiting for it but I feel like it'll be a lot more approachable for me. As it stands I had plans of sticking with BC until at least level cap and max flying but I stopped at 64 and have no intentions of going back now that 9.1 is out. It's just too grindy and future prospects seem grim with the lack of tanks everywhere and the general elitist attitude. No I don't want to play a tank, I wanted to main hunter and no I don't have time to commit to a guild. Therefore BC just isn't for me and that's alright. I hope I'm not misremembering and Wrath Classic is more casual friendly.
    Last edited by Dug; 2021-07-11 at 04:50 PM.

  3. #323
    The Insane DeltrusDisc's Avatar
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    Not really, no. While I'd love to play the old school Wintergrasp again (inb4 they ruin it because reasons) I played the rest of Wrath pretty damned fully. While I LOOOOOOOOVE Ulduar, most of the other raids were lacking in comparison, thus I struggle to be interested. I've got every achievement in Wrath almost, just, no.

    I need to play TBC though.
    "For Teldrassil."
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    yeh but lava is just very hot water

  4. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by Celarent View Post
    Seeing a lot of attribution of LFD to community loss. Communities were decimated in Cataclysm, when the difficulty shifts and jumps shut out the sub-50th percentile WoWmoms and dads -- players who loved the game but weren't very good at it and couldn't keep up with the rest of us.
    I think that's just an easy excuse to distract from the issues of LFD.

    First off, grouping up with players from other realms was unheard of outside of random Battlegrounds, it still was a legitimate possibility that you could run into those people again, with LFD, those chances were minimal.

    Second, it can be quite the nightmare for any solo oriented player who ends up with a pre made group.
    You'll see people getting kicked before the last boss because someone needs an item, you'll see people rolling need on an item they don't so they can trade it to someone else (which is not possible right now in TBC, but possible in Wotlk).
    And there isn't a chance that those people would ever face any consequences because that's how the system works.

    Thirdly, LFD is poor place to for a learning experience.
    People expect in LFD that everything works smoothly.
    People don't show others what they've been doing wrong.

    Rather, they quit / kick and look for another group / member, because LFD allows them to.

    I am not going to pretend that everyone is super nice without LFD, but in my opinion it keeps the most degenerate behavior to a minimum.
    Behavior that often comes at the detriment of the more casual, less skilled audience.

  5. #325
    Herald of the Titans Daffan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Oblivion View Post
    this is of course only my opinion:

    4. ULD, TOC, and ICC were all AMAZING raids. a no trash chill tier was awesome IMO
    5. Dungeons released through out the expac that gave increasing gear levels as catch up
    6. Heroics were FUN and FAST and easy, unlike easy slow and unrewarding version of BC
    7. gearing system was at its peak in wow for PVE and PVP with badges

    10. Great catch up mechanics and alt friendly





    TOC was super stale.

    Dungeons were a joke and let you skip every raid.

    Heroics were boring zergfests that you didn't even want to be there outside of getting your welfare check

    Gearing system sucked because of said heroics and welfare, most people never even beat the raids. WOTLK was like life support for subs, nothing like TBC rocket increase.

    10) well you should know the answer from my above 3 pts.
    Content drought is a combination of catchup mechanics and no new content.
    Classic+ Retune/New Boss Abilities >>> #nochanges crowd

  6. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by The Oblivion View Post
    this is of course only my opinion:
    No, it's not. Give yourself some credit. The peak was the peak for a reason.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    I think that's just an easy excuse to distract from the issues of LFD.
    I don't disagree with much of what you write, actually. I never liked LFR, and did find matchmade groups of any size to be disappointing on an interpersonal level most of the time. I think Wrath's relative ease worked well with it (and the whiteknucklers, exposing the weakness of the system, were ICC 5-mans). My point is just that it was gangbusters all the way to December 7, 2010.

  7. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryzeth View Post
    Nope.

    Cleared every single fight when it was current (and multiple times over on private servers as well). Wrath Classic, like the two before it, are going to release on the final balance patch and everything is going to be just as braindead-easy as TBC is.

    I don't buy into the nostalgia thing; if I'm not having fun with Retail then I find another game to play entirely. Didn't play Vanilla Classic, or TBC Classic, not going to play any after that either, even if Wrath and MoP were my favourite expansions.

    Private server meta is going to carry onto Wrath Classic just like it did the previous two, a meta which is even more boring than the game was when it was current. No thanks, I'll just stick to Shadowlands until I get bored of it and move on.
    As somebody who started playing in Wrath and quit in Legion: I can 100% say with certainty that Classic and TBC have been better experiences for me than anything after Wrath. No nostalgia goggles for time since past until we hit Wrath. I could not play BfA or Shadowlands no matter how hard I tried.

    The final balance patch argument isn't going to be nearly as much of a factor come Wrath, and I don't think it's going to be as big a factor in TBC either. You're greatly underestimating the dramatic amount of changes that specs went through in Classic WoW. Best example I have is Fury Warrior, basically the best DPS spec in terms of the Private Server meta, didn't even exist until halfway through Classic when Bloodthirst was changed from an On Kill effect to being what it is now. Prot didn't have Shield Slam, some specs didn't get fixed until way later on down the line even.

    The reason why people remember Classic, TBC, and Wrath to have difficult raid encounters was for a number of things that just simply aren't an issue any longer. The majority of the playerbase did not understand how things worked, and the raids were kept as ambiguous as possible. There was also misinformation going around that I'm sure didn't help. I do remember Ulduar and ICC having some difficulty associated with them, but they will still be rolled through in one week by the players who have already cleared that content before, especially if they're coming from... recent... practice runs.

    Classic definitely ramped up in difficulty towards the end, but people only cite how fast the content was cleared for the first time in the Classic era to indicate how easy it was despite those people clearing it being people who had already cleared the content numerous times. If they were to create a Classic BfA, Method and Limit or whatever they're called now would roll through the content in the first week just like people do in Classic because they've ALREADY done it. It's why bosses get easier and easier to beat once you've beaten them once. You beat them because you got good at the mechanics.
    Would you hop on the bandwagon and start saying how much easier Classic BfA is than Shadowlands because the content was cleared week 1 by Method and Limit redoing it?

  8. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by Hctaz View Post
    The final balance patch argument isn't going to be nearly as much of a factor come Wrath, and I don't think it's going to be as big a factor in TBC either.
    I would honestly laugh if they introduce wotlk with final balance patch and forget to change 10 man yogg 0 lights. Fight went unkilled for months after TOC patch. It was not until you could severely outgear it in ICC gear that it was killed again in 10 man.

  9. #329
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    Wotlk was the gateway drug into raiding for the more casual but far larger crowd of wow players.

    Basically blizz shifted their target demography to a diffrent and larger group of people.

    To the great despair of the raiding crowd of vanilla and tbc who for the most part thinks of Wotlk as wrath of the casual king.
    Because tbc was so hard right?

  10. #330
    Quote Originally Posted by bRighteyez View Post
    Because tbc was so hard right?
    By modern standards, more or less.
    By 2008 standards, at least harder than the base level of Wotlk.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2021-07-15 at 08:19 AM.

  11. #331
    I do, just for the classes design, even if I started playing in TBC.

  12. #332
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    By modern standards, more or less.
    By 2008 standards, at least harder than the base level of Wotlk.
    I don't think it was hard, just grindy.

  13. #333
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryzeth View Post
    Nope.

    Cleared every single fight when it was current (and multiple times over on private servers as well). Wrath Classic, like the two before it, are going to release on the final balance patch and everything is going to be just as braindead-easy as TBC is.

    I don't buy into the nostalgia thing; if I'm not having fun with Retail then I find another game to play entirely. Didn't play Vanilla Classic, or TBC Classic, not going to play any after that either, even if Wrath and MoP were my favourite expansions.

    Private server meta is going to carry onto Wrath Classic just like it did the previous two, a meta which is even more boring than the game was when it was current. No thanks, I'll just stick to Shadowlands until I get bored of it and move on.
    Private server meta literally didnt carry onto either Classic or TBC what are you on about? if you have no clue then why are you even speaking lol? rotation, gear, consumes, setups and routes in all the raids were different. the levelling was COMPLETELY different than ANY private server the world buff meta of Private servers was VASTLY different to Classic, like what even remained the same? do you have any examples? Never understood casual players who put 0 effort into the game speaking as if they know anything, it's so freaking strange. since at the level they play, the meta doesnt even exist, they just impose it on themselves randomly. Ive seen, helped, and played with Plenty of casual guilds who didnt give 2 shits about the meta, they arent difficult to find what so ever, even on the most try hard server in the world Gehennas they exist and thrive.

    Not to mention, literally no one cares in TBC. they dont give a shit, the content is so easy and theres so much content outside of raids etc that the amount of hardcore guilds who genuinly try, are no where to be found, you have to actively search for them. everyone is just meming around, even my main group has DPS warriors and Rogues in our kara, while getting world rank 1 speed kills, getting people rank 1 logs and just having a fun time trying stuff out for the shits and giggles.

    If you genuinly know nothing about a subject, why bother spreading misinformation? its a bit freaky.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    TBC is not for me. Classes just feel boring.

    Wrath added every fun talent that made classes fun in Wrath. TBC Class design was peak boredom.
    I think theres plenty of ways to make classes fun, outside of the class design in both Classic and TBC, its what makes try harding very fun in these expansions, but I also understand people who dont want to put in a billion hours in the game might not see that. but I must agree, Class Design in Wotlk is AMAZING, genuinly cant choose what class I want to play, because I want to play them all!

    Except DK's, they were a mistake and abortion is never too late >

  14. #334
    Quote Originally Posted by bRighteyez View Post
    I don't think it was hard, just grindy.
    Considering less than one percent of the playerbase actually did progress Sunwell Plateau before Wotlk, i think that constitutes as "hard", at least for its respective time.

    And by the time of 2.4, most time consuming barriers were pretty much gone.

  15. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by bRighteyez View Post
    Because tbc was so hard right?
    Judging by the players ive met, TBC is indeed hard, apperently.

  16. #336
    Quote Originally Posted by bRighteyez View Post
    Because tbc was so hard right?
    Its all relative. By todays mythic raiding standard anything in the first 4-6 expansions would be considered easy. But its not really relevant to compare either to todays raiding.
    Whats relevant is to look at how much time guilds spent on the non-bugged bossses, (so not vashj or kaelthas etc). Looking at either gruul/mag/nightbane either of them lived weeks longer than the wotlk bosses of the launch teir which all died within hours of the topguilds reaching lvl 80.

    By the time wotlk released even a top 50 guild like the one i was in had all the launch content down in 1-2 days of raiding after a 3day leveling marathon. While still wearing mostly sunwell gear.

    You can find the timers for the top 10 guilds back in tbc here if ur interested.
    https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/w...rning_Crusade)
    Last edited by Aphrel; 2021-07-18 at 01:25 AM.
    None of us really changes over time. We only become more fully what we are.

  17. #337
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Personally, i wouldnt hold out any hope at all for any upcoming mmos, but there are some existing ones that might interest you. I wont do any game V game bullshit, but FF14 and GW2 still have plenty of players and are doing amazing in their own right.
    GW2 is a trash game (tying abilities to weapon types is so dumb), and FF14 has no classes I'd enjoy and I don't like the graphic style.


    The only MMO im somewhat looking forward to at the moment is Ashes of Creation, but even that I am skeptical about now.

  18. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by Alcsaar View Post
    GW2 is a trash game (tying abilities to weapon types is so dumb), and FF14 has no classes I'd enjoy and I don't like the graphic style.


    The only MMO im somewhat looking forward to at the moment is Ashes of Creation, but even that I am skeptical about now.
    If you think ashes might interest you, look at new world. Not for hardcore raiders / PvE players, but they have shifted their focus in that direction so that could change.

    However, abilities are tied to weapons, so that is probably a no-go for you. I played the beta and was surprised, but it is still very much a "jack of all trades, master of none". Little bit of survival, little bit of action, little bit of rpg, little PvE little pvp. It's not BAD, but it doesn't do anything really well.
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  19. #339
    Herald of the Titans ercarp's Avatar
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    What I really want is Classic Legion or Classic MoP, but I don't see either happening since that means they would have to make both Classic Cata and Classic WoD to get there. And there's about zero pull for either Cata or WoD, so yeah, probably not happening.
    Last edited by ercarp; 2021-08-05 at 06:47 AM.

  20. #340
    People are going to be surprised by how lifeless Northrend is and how pathetic most of the content is at release, I imagine.

    Magtheridon is many times harder than Malygos. WOTLK heroics are easier than classic dungeons and that's saying something.

    Ulduar hard modes are a tiny island of quality content in a sea of garbage.

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