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  1. #361
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    Yeh I'm sure everyone just can't wait to do Naxx again for the first tier of WotLK.
    People who complained about Wrath ≠ people who drove WoW's sub numbers to its peak.

  2. #362
    nah, i dont care what blizz is doing anymore.
    WotlK was the beginning of the "end".
    BC brought in the biggest growth, wotlk stagnated.
    and before people go with "but but but 12m players and stuff!"
    ye, i know, they got 800k players more, and i bet most of em were consoomers RAFing themselves for the zevra.
    ffs in my class back then i had 4 dudes doing that so i bet everybody did.
    Classic was nice, classic bc sucked with the "lolz buy a mount or a boost" and wotlk wont come out 100%.

    Lets see if we will have a blizzard 2022.

  3. #363
    Waiting for Classic Shadowlands

  4. #364
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    Yeh I'm sure everyone just can't wait to do Naxx again for the first tier of WotLK.
    I didn't feel like doing naxx in Classic because I already did it way too many times in WotL. Yeah I get that this isn't the same challenge, but I've seen enough of that place for a lifetime.

  5. #365
    Waiting for New World, tbh.

  6. #366
    Stood in the Fire Ragu4's Avatar
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    I never properly played TBC and never touched classic, so I wanted to play those. The thing is that I already did WOTLK and cleared all content, so idk if I want to do it again and spoil my nostalgia. It really depends on the group that I play with if they keep going. Been with the same group now for 3 years, so if they keep going then I will too...maybe.

  7. #367
    I got 2 raid tiers I am certainly looking forward to in WotLK. The rest of it is pretty blah though. Although by WotLK's time the need to play all the time was kind of dissolved so it works in its favor.

  8. #368
    Keyboard Turner
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    I think there's a lot of rose tinted goggles around WotLK. It wasn't bad, but in a lot of ways it started some bad practices in the game as a whole.

  9. #369
    The Lightbringer Azerox's Avatar
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    All these classic stuff doesnt interest my at all.
    Most people playing think they oldskool now, lmao.
    Its nothing near the experience back then.
    That is not dead which can eternal lie,
    and with strange Aeons even Death may die.

  10. #370
    The Patient MCitra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by callipygoustp View Post
    Ever since Cata released.
    haha agree. Even tho i loved TBC, Wrath was one hell of an expansion
    Last edited by MCitra; 2021-08-07 at 05:08 PM. Reason: ,
    I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work
    www.twitch.tv/mcitra

  11. #371
    Looking forward to Wrath Classic because it was the pinnacle of the warrior class, imo. Class design overall was just *chefs kiss* the perfect balance between the swing-timer feel of Classic and the aRPG feel of MoP. Wrath was also the most alt-friendly expansion with heirlooms and catchup gear. I anticipate PvP will be much more popular as well.

  12. #372
    I think I got over whole "classics" things, it just doesn't work.
    WoW classic is as dead as languages can be "dead", you can learn it, you can use it, but it will never provide #1 functionality of any actual living language and that is communication. Same is with WoWclassic, its certain snapshot of gaming history no matter how interesting, but these are a bad games by today's standard nor they are played the way they meant and were played.

    Also 15$/month is a silly joke for game with no development, little to no customer service and rampant bot/real money trading.
    Last edited by FAILoZOFF; 2021-08-09 at 10:23 AM.

  13. #373
    classic wow was a fresh experience for me because i never played the original. tbc i knew what to expect but its just not the same feeling obviously and didnt keep my interest. the only expansion i kept revisiting over the years inbetween retail expansions was wrath. allways fun to go back. for me thats the pinnacle of classic class design and i love the northrend vibe. it has its weaknesses yes but i believe thats the expansion alot more people will enjoy.

  14. #374
    Brewmaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinured View Post
    nah, i dont care what blizz is doing anymore.
    WotlK was the beginning of the "end".
    BC brought in the biggest growth, wotlk stagnated.
    and before people go with "but but but 12m players and stuff!"
    ye, i know, they got 800k players more, and i bet most of em were consoomers RAFing themselves for the zevra.
    ffs in my class back then i had 4 dudes doing that so i bet everybody did.
    Classic was nice, classic bc sucked with the "lolz buy a mount or a boost" and wotlk wont come out 100%.

    Lets see if we will have a blizzard 2022.
    I will take you on that bet!

    I didn’t do it. You owe me.

  15. #375
    Moderator Northern Goblin's Avatar
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    Everyone pointing out Naxx as proof that TBC is harder than Wrath seems to overlook the fact it's the Wrath equivalent of Karazhan. Malygos is harder than Gruul and Sarth 3d pretty much beats out anything in the opening tier.

    Plus you're always going to have that one idiot who cocks up your undying/immortal runs, so there's something to aim for. Right now you're just running the same raids we've had on farm since week 1 for tier drops and the hope of mage blades and DSTs.

    Looking at later tiers, SSC/TK's difficulty outside of Kael is massively overstated. Ulduar offers far more difficulty with various hardmodes than any of the other bosses, and Firefighter/Alone in the Dark crap on Kael for difficulty.

    Then we start talking about gated content, and to be honest I'm not looking forward to gated Sunwell either. Gonna be crap not being able to progress past felmyst for weeks. But TOTGC for as short as it is offers better fights than the entire of MH and BT combined, both of those were easy raids.

    And ICC beats out Sunwell by a country mile. People seemingly forget fights like Putricide heroic were an actual challenge. Not everything was lootship.


    Ontop of the raiding content, multiple dailies were on offer from the start, heroics were fun and achievements gave you something to push for. People complain they were aoe fests, have you done tbc heroics with a geared Paladin tank? Same thing. What TBC had in terms of difficulty wasn't anything that was a challenge, just obnoxious mechanics that weren't actually fun. Random charge+melee mobs that instagib your healer or dps regardless of threat isn't a difficulty you have to overcome, just some bullshit that you can't do much about and handle.

    Wrath had a lot to focus on outside of raids, the QoL was top tier in terms of class balancing, dual spec, no bullshit resistance fights, the championing tabard system, making professions feel valuable and was really alt friendly.

    Plus having the option to run content in both 10 and 25 offers either flexibility or more options, sure beats the current "clear everything in 3 hours and log out for a week" that we're currently beginning to witness.


    Sports and Fitness mod, Brit with weird sleeping hours.
    Has good taste in ale, bad taste in D&D choices.

  16. #376
    I'm waiting for classic BfA

  17. #377
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Goblin View Post
    Everyone pointing out Naxx as proof that TBC is harder than Wrath seems to overlook the fact it's the Wrath equivalent of Karazhan.
    Doesn't change the fact that Wotlk Naxx is an even bigger joke than Karazhan, especially due to the powercreep coming in with Wotlk.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Goblin View Post
    Malygos is harder than Gruul and Sarth 3d pretty much beats out anything in the opening tier.
    You'd have a point of Malygos was properly tuned, but he's not.
    The amount of people that you can lose in P3 and still kill the boss is way too high for him even to be remotly challenging, especially because on Malygos, a few idiots cannot ruin your attempt.
    Whereas an idiot on Gruul idiots can kill critical people (healers) or when we actually refer to the "hardest" boss of the T4, Magtheridon, straight up wipe the raid.

    As for Sarth+3D, i'd give you that if those Zerg strats would not completely trivialize the encounter, it's basically just a question of people having farmed Naxx enough until it becomes a Patchwerk fight because you just nuke the boss.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Goblin View Post
    Plus you're always going to have that one idiot who cocks up your undying/immortal runs, so there's something to aim for.
    I think talking about entirely optional achievements is a bit silly, i could also theoretically make a challenge about clearing T4 content without anyone dying.
    Sure, it doesn't have an title reward like Undying / Immortal, but due to the abstract nature of the achievement and the fact that it doesn't have any tangible rewards, its status as legitimitate additional difficulty is disputed.

    It's sort on the same level as the "Do you have every achievement?" question whenever someone points out the lack of content.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Goblin View Post
    Looking at later tiers, SSC/TK's difficulty outside of Kael is massively overstated. Ulduar offers far more difficulty with various hardmodes than any of the other bosses, and Firefighter/Alone in the Dark crap on Kael for difficulty.
    I don't think you'd necessarily find a lot of people that dispute the difficulty of Ulduar Hardmodes but will also point out that Ulduar was followed up by TotC, which was an utter joke on anything but their Heroic versions.

    This is frankly the tale of Wotlk, sure, its Hardmode content was (generally speaking) more challenging than previous content but the skill floor was in cases of Naxx and TotC certainly lowered as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Goblin View Post
    Then we start talking about gated content, and to be honest I'm not looking forward to gated Sunwell either.
    Fair enough, but do you also remember how ICC was timegated - and TotC as well?
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Goblin View Post
    Ontop of the raiding content, multiple dailies were on offer from the start
    I don't think you'll find a lot of people that are fans of the Sons of Hodir dailies.

    If Blizzard is smart, the Relic of Ulduar turnins are in from the start and those enchants are Account wide right off the bat.
    If not, then you'll witness the birth of "mandatory chores" in WoW again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Goblin View Post
    People complain they were aoe fests, have you done tbc heroics with a geared Paladin tank? Same thing. What TBC had in terms of difficulty wasn't anything that was a challenge, just obnoxious mechanics that weren't actually fun. Random charge+melee mobs that instagib your healer or dps regardless of threat isn't a difficulty you have to overcome, just some bullshit that you can't do much about and handle.
    Okay, now we're entering territory that's just straight dishonest.

    First off, not everybody has a Prot Paladin in their group (because not every Pally can be a tank at a whim's notice)
    Second, not every class has AoE, meaning even if you have a prot pally, you can't AoE them down
    Thirdly, while some shit falls under the "bad design" category in TBC, you're throwing out the bathwater with the babies, some people enjoy that you have to actually have to plan out certain pulls, that you have to use CC, whether because the tank cannot reasonably tank them all or because they're doing too much damage.

    Wotlk Heroics are such a joke that you'll run them over with green quest gear with a pug, you don't watch out for a specific dangerous pack, you don't use some more utility oriented ability of your class, you'll go in, tank spams their AoE spells, Dps spams their AoE spells.
    On. Every. Single. Pack. with. every single. comp.

    In TBC, you have to more stragetically approach certain packs at least at one point in time, Wotlk are a zergfest right from the getgo.
    Certain Wotlk heroics aren't hated because they're "unfair" or "difficult" but simply because there's some freaking time event that blocks you from blasting that dungeon in less than 15 minutes.

    And you're going to do them throughout the enterity of the expansion on a daily basis because Blizzard added a daily heroic that awards [current tier] badges, which you have to do because in T9 and T10, you need badges in order to buy Tier set items.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Goblin View Post
    making professions feel valuable
    No, Wotlk was the expansion that severly damaged professions.

    People didn't roll BS anymore to craft themselves a good piece of armor or weapon, but to add some socket to their gear.
    People didn't roll leatherworking for a solid piece of gear, but some slightly superior bracer enchant.

    Wotlk was the turning point where Professions went from being extremely useful and even a reasonable alternative to progress your character for more casual players, to just some side thing that you only worry at the start of an expansion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Goblin View Post
    Plus having the option to run content in both 10 and 25 offers either flexibility or more options, sure beats the current "clear everything in 3 hours and log out for a week" that we're currently beginning to witness.
    And only running [current] raid because nothing past the current tier matters barring some trinkets, yay!

    Look, i respect that you're a fan of Wotlk and parts of this post are overly harsh, i think that Wotlk was overall still one of the better expansions, but some parts in there are just whitewashing a lot of (in my opinion) bad elements that Wotlk has introduced into the game.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2021-08-09 at 06:23 PM.

  18. #378
    I'll do the leveling quests in Wrath but that's it. Wrath is when they added the redundant and dilutive raid system with multiple difficulties and raid sizes in addition to what has become the gold selling LFG tool and LFR nonsense. I often think about how good Wrath endgame would have been had they kept the single 25-man raid with one difficulty on par with Sunwell... since after all this is an MMORPG and not a "let Grandma clear everything by week 3" type of game.

  19. #379
    Quote Originally Posted by aceperson View Post
    i'm not giving blizz a cent. they can have my money when they make good products again. i'm not going to give them money so i can play a good game that was made 10 years ago when we had a competent team. far as i see, if you give them money just to play on a classic server, you aren't helping solve the issue.
    agreed. The downtrend of blizzard goes back many years now. Its just trending down down down

  20. #380
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    joke than Karazhan,

    TotC, which was an utter joke on anything but their Heroic versions

    Wotlk Heroics are such a joke
    To whom, dude? A fraction of a fraction of a percent of the population who'll moan on forums and then turn around and play the game for hours on end anyway?

    Half-serious that the best part of Wrath was tweaking you guys over how popular it was because such a large number of subbers could play the snot out of it *because they wanted to*.

    Also, oh man, I was specifically looking forward to Sons of Hodir before I knew that tweaked you, too.

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