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  1. #321
    Quote Originally Posted by The Oblivion View Post
    this is of course only my opinion:
    No, it's not. Give yourself some credit. The peak was the peak for a reason.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    I think that's just an easy excuse to distract from the issues of LFD.
    I don't disagree with much of what you write, actually. I never liked LFR, and did find matchmade groups of any size to be disappointing on an interpersonal level most of the time. I think Wrath's relative ease worked well with it (and the whiteknucklers, exposing the weakness of the system, were ICC 5-mans). My point is just that it was gangbusters all the way to December 7, 2010.

  2. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryzeth View Post
    Nope.

    Cleared every single fight when it was current (and multiple times over on private servers as well). Wrath Classic, like the two before it, are going to release on the final balance patch and everything is going to be just as braindead-easy as TBC is.

    I don't buy into the nostalgia thing; if I'm not having fun with Retail then I find another game to play entirely. Didn't play Vanilla Classic, or TBC Classic, not going to play any after that either, even if Wrath and MoP were my favourite expansions.

    Private server meta is going to carry onto Wrath Classic just like it did the previous two, a meta which is even more boring than the game was when it was current. No thanks, I'll just stick to Shadowlands until I get bored of it and move on.
    As somebody who started playing in Wrath and quit in Legion: I can 100% say with certainty that Classic and TBC have been better experiences for me than anything after Wrath. No nostalgia goggles for time since past until we hit Wrath. I could not play BfA or Shadowlands no matter how hard I tried.

    The final balance patch argument isn't going to be nearly as much of a factor come Wrath, and I don't think it's going to be as big a factor in TBC either. You're greatly underestimating the dramatic amount of changes that specs went through in Classic WoW. Best example I have is Fury Warrior, basically the best DPS spec in terms of the Private Server meta, didn't even exist until halfway through Classic when Bloodthirst was changed from an On Kill effect to being what it is now. Prot didn't have Shield Slam, some specs didn't get fixed until way later on down the line even.

    The reason why people remember Classic, TBC, and Wrath to have difficult raid encounters was for a number of things that just simply aren't an issue any longer. The majority of the playerbase did not understand how things worked, and the raids were kept as ambiguous as possible. There was also misinformation going around that I'm sure didn't help. I do remember Ulduar and ICC having some difficulty associated with them, but they will still be rolled through in one week by the players who have already cleared that content before, especially if they're coming from... recent... practice runs.

    Classic definitely ramped up in difficulty towards the end, but people only cite how fast the content was cleared for the first time in the Classic era to indicate how easy it was despite those people clearing it being people who had already cleared the content numerous times. If they were to create a Classic BfA, Method and Limit or whatever they're called now would roll through the content in the first week just like people do in Classic because they've ALREADY done it. It's why bosses get easier and easier to beat once you've beaten them once. You beat them because you got good at the mechanics.
    Would you hop on the bandwagon and start saying how much easier Classic BfA is than Shadowlands because the content was cleared week 1 by Method and Limit redoing it?

  3. #323
    Quote Originally Posted by Hctaz View Post
    The final balance patch argument isn't going to be nearly as much of a factor come Wrath, and I don't think it's going to be as big a factor in TBC either.
    I would honestly laugh if they introduce wotlk with final balance patch and forget to change 10 man yogg 0 lights. Fight went unkilled for months after TOC patch. It was not until you could severely outgear it in ICC gear that it was killed again in 10 man.

  4. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    Wotlk was the gateway drug into raiding for the more casual but far larger crowd of wow players.

    Basically blizz shifted their target demography to a diffrent and larger group of people.

    To the great despair of the raiding crowd of vanilla and tbc who for the most part thinks of Wotlk as wrath of the casual king.
    Because tbc was so hard right?

  5. #325
    Quote Originally Posted by bRighteyez View Post
    Because tbc was so hard right?
    By modern standards, more or less.
    By 2008 standards, at least harder than the base level of Wotlk.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2021-07-15 at 08:19 AM.

  6. #326
    I do, just for the classes design, even if I started playing in TBC.

  7. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    By modern standards, more or less.
    By 2008 standards, at least harder than the base level of Wotlk.
    I don't think it was hard, just grindy.

  8. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryzeth View Post
    Nope.

    Cleared every single fight when it was current (and multiple times over on private servers as well). Wrath Classic, like the two before it, are going to release on the final balance patch and everything is going to be just as braindead-easy as TBC is.

    I don't buy into the nostalgia thing; if I'm not having fun with Retail then I find another game to play entirely. Didn't play Vanilla Classic, or TBC Classic, not going to play any after that either, even if Wrath and MoP were my favourite expansions.

    Private server meta is going to carry onto Wrath Classic just like it did the previous two, a meta which is even more boring than the game was when it was current. No thanks, I'll just stick to Shadowlands until I get bored of it and move on.
    Private server meta literally didnt carry onto either Classic or TBC what are you on about? if you have no clue then why are you even speaking lol? rotation, gear, consumes, setups and routes in all the raids were different. the levelling was COMPLETELY different than ANY private server the world buff meta of Private servers was VASTLY different to Classic, like what even remained the same? do you have any examples? Never understood casual players who put 0 effort into the game speaking as if they know anything, it's so freaking strange. since at the level they play, the meta doesnt even exist, they just impose it on themselves randomly. Ive seen, helped, and played with Plenty of casual guilds who didnt give 2 shits about the meta, they arent difficult to find what so ever, even on the most try hard server in the world Gehennas they exist and thrive.

    Not to mention, literally no one cares in TBC. they dont give a shit, the content is so easy and theres so much content outside of raids etc that the amount of hardcore guilds who genuinly try, are no where to be found, you have to actively search for them. everyone is just meming around, even my main group has DPS warriors and Rogues in our kara, while getting world rank 1 speed kills, getting people rank 1 logs and just having a fun time trying stuff out for the shits and giggles.

    If you genuinly know nothing about a subject, why bother spreading misinformation? its a bit freaky.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    TBC is not for me. Classes just feel boring.

    Wrath added every fun talent that made classes fun in Wrath. TBC Class design was peak boredom.
    I think theres plenty of ways to make classes fun, outside of the class design in both Classic and TBC, its what makes try harding very fun in these expansions, but I also understand people who dont want to put in a billion hours in the game might not see that. but I must agree, Class Design in Wotlk is AMAZING, genuinly cant choose what class I want to play, because I want to play them all!

    Except DK's, they were a mistake and abortion is never too late >

  9. #329
    Quote Originally Posted by bRighteyez View Post
    I don't think it was hard, just grindy.
    Considering less than one percent of the playerbase actually did progress Sunwell Plateau before Wotlk, i think that constitutes as "hard", at least for its respective time.

    And by the time of 2.4, most time consuming barriers were pretty much gone.

  10. #330
    Quote Originally Posted by bRighteyez View Post
    Because tbc was so hard right?
    Judging by the players ive met, TBC is indeed hard, apperently.

  11. #331
    Quote Originally Posted by bRighteyez View Post
    Because tbc was so hard right?
    Its all relative. By todays mythic raiding standard anything in the first 4-6 expansions would be considered easy. But its not really relevant to compare either to todays raiding.
    Whats relevant is to look at how much time guilds spent on the non-bugged bossses, (so not vashj or kaelthas etc). Looking at either gruul/mag/nightbane either of them lived weeks longer than the wotlk bosses of the launch teir which all died within hours of the topguilds reaching lvl 80.

    By the time wotlk released even a top 50 guild like the one i was in had all the launch content down in 1-2 days of raiding after a 3day leveling marathon. While still wearing mostly sunwell gear.

    You can find the timers for the top 10 guilds back in tbc here if ur interested.
    https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/w...rning_Crusade)
    Last edited by Aphrel; 2021-07-18 at 01:25 AM.
    None of us really changes over time. We only become more fully what we are.

  12. #332
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Personally, i wouldnt hold out any hope at all for any upcoming mmos, but there are some existing ones that might interest you. I wont do any game V game bullshit, but FF14 and GW2 still have plenty of players and are doing amazing in their own right.
    GW2 is a trash game (tying abilities to weapon types is so dumb), and FF14 has no classes I'd enjoy and I don't like the graphic style.


    The only MMO im somewhat looking forward to at the moment is Ashes of Creation, but even that I am skeptical about now.

  13. #333
    Quote Originally Posted by Alcsaar View Post
    GW2 is a trash game (tying abilities to weapon types is so dumb), and FF14 has no classes I'd enjoy and I don't like the graphic style.


    The only MMO im somewhat looking forward to at the moment is Ashes of Creation, but even that I am skeptical about now.
    If you think ashes might interest you, look at new world. Not for hardcore raiders / PvE players, but they have shifted their focus in that direction so that could change.

    However, abilities are tied to weapons, so that is probably a no-go for you. I played the beta and was surprised, but it is still very much a "jack of all trades, master of none". Little bit of survival, little bit of action, little bit of rpg, little PvE little pvp. It's not BAD, but it doesn't do anything really well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    In no way are you entitled to the 'complete' game when you buy it, because DLC/cosmetics and so on are there for companies to make more money
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Others, including myself, are saying that they only exist because Blizzard needed to create things so they could monetize it.

  14. #334
    Scarab Lord ercarp's Avatar
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    What I really want is Classic Legion or Classic MoP, but I don't see either happening since that means they would have to make both Classic Cata and Classic WoD to get there. And there's about zero pull for either Cata or WoD, so yeah, probably not happening.
    Last edited by ercarp; 2021-08-05 at 06:47 AM.

  15. #335
    People are going to be surprised by how lifeless Northrend is and how pathetic most of the content is at release, I imagine.

    Magtheridon is many times harder than Malygos. WOTLK heroics are easier than classic dungeons and that's saying something.

    Ulduar hard modes are a tiny island of quality content in a sea of garbage.

  16. #336
    Not really. I think WotLK, besides the fantastic Ulduar - which to this day is the best raid they've ever created - is pretty overrated.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  17. #337
    I'll be glad when its finally out and people realize how bad it really was.

    The idea of the WOTLK talent tree was cool, though in reality it was mostly filled with bloat that was mandatory or could be easily baked into the class.

    In general the setting, music, and villian were cool, but the content, short of Ulduar, wasn't good. The tuning of everything was all over the place, mostly being mind numbingly easy. And even Ulduar wasn't THAT great, but I do understand why people liked it.

    Sorry, but it's absurdly overrated and I'll be glad when it's out and people finally stop preaching about how it was the pinnacle of WOW.
    Last edited by Mojo03; 2021-08-05 at 07:34 AM.

  18. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Not really. I think WotLK, besides the fantastic Ulduar - which to this day is the best raid they've ever created - is pretty overrated.
    I'd actually dispute the assertion that Ulduar was the best raid ever made. It was great, for sure, especially for its time - but it also had/has some issues.

    I'd argue that both Blackrock Foundry and Nighthold were better raids than Ulduar.

  19. #339
    not sure why everyone thinks difficulty brings in players. classic was not difficult and was wildly successful. tbc is harder and thus far less successful. wrath was easy and was massively successful

  20. #340
    High Overlord
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    Cataclysm has a lot of fanbase if you dont know. Especially pvpers. I would rather play Cata than wotlk as a feeling of a game is much better, ofc opinion matters as i never agree of MOP classic. But i will say its impossible to go over Cataclysm. I think they will stop at wotlk but rare chance to have cata and they will stop the classic journey

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