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  1. #41
    Banned Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Where would you consider "close enough"?

    "Threat to security" is the usual argument; it doesn't have to be argued as noone but state itself can decide what kind of security it needs.

    As you see from BBC footage British were preparing in case they would actually get shot at (or bombed).

    - - - Updated - - -

    No, it's exact same "UK stronk!" made in different words.

    How exactly do you see "I think it was wholly appropriate to use international waters, and, by the way, the important point is that we don’t recognize the Russian annexation of Crimea" any differently? :/

    Why would that be important if it wasn't for UK provocation?
    What could "passage" be but provocative action to support such position?

    Just look at their footage:

    - - - Updated - - -

    Some top comments from BBC video:

    • British warships dont often sail in russian waters, but when they do there is a bbc journalist onboard...
    • British warship armament: -ammunition -large guns -a bbc journalist -sailors
    • This is the military equivalent of filming yourself putting your hand on a hot surface for 5 seconds in order to show everyone how tough you are.
    • Luckily the Royal Navy carries a bbc reporter on every ship otherwise no one would know.
    • Britain just wanted attention. Imagine having a bbc journalist onboard and everything is recorded. What a stage
    • Commander Owen - as you should know - "international shipping lanes" are for cargo and passenger ships. And you are not captain of RMS "Titanic". Warships are not allowed to enter territorial waters without permission of that country.
    Close enough? Less than 3 miles or so.

    To declare a ship involved in innocent passage as a threat, one has to articulate what portion of the law it is in violation of. "We don't want you to sail through here" does not actually cut it.

    Had the RN decided the Su-24s were an actual threat, Russia's air force would be down a few Fencers in a manner of seconds.

    The BBC in there because of the importance of the carrier deployment.

    You are wrong, warships CAN enter territorial waters without permission when performing innocent passage. Russia has even agreed that is true.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Since the moment Crimea joined Russia, duh.

    If you want to add war for Crimea to C19 then you don't need to arrange provocations around it.
    Crimea belongs to Ukraine legally. Hardly anyone agrees it belongs to Russia.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Either way it's premeditated provocation by UK.

    You are free to think trolling with warships is fine as long as you admit this isn't Russia escalating the situation - all Russia does here is defending status quo.

    Just like in previous case with detained Ukrainian warboats.
    The provocation here is Russia's theft of Ukrainian territory....

  2. #42
    Legendary! Collegeguy's Avatar
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    Russia has zero claim to the Ukraine no matter how many Russian soldiers are on vacation in or around the area.

    The British are traveling from the Ukraine to Georgia which brings them in that path of Crimea.

    Russia was belligerent enough to take Crimea in the fashion they did, but it's arrogant to assume that everyone should now grovel to Russia's belligerence.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Collegeguy View Post
    Russia has zero claim to the Ukraine no matter how many Russian soldiers are on vacation in or around the area.

    The British are traveling from the Ukraine to Georgia which brings them in that path of Crimea.

    Russia was belligerent enough to take Crimea in the fashion they did, but it's arrogant to assume that everyone should now grovel to Russia's belligerence.
    Legality of Crimean question does not change the de facto situation, which is that Russia controls that territory and sailing over there means an obvious attempt at force demonstration - which can lead to some nasty outcomes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post

    Had the RN decided the Su-24s were an actual threat, Russia's air force would be down a few Fencers in a manner of seconds.
    Can you cut the chest beating at least for once??? At that distance even that coast guard vessel is a threat to it if it opens fire first.
    It is a single fucking destroyer, you bet Russians can sink it without too much issues that close to the shore and the anti-ship batteries. And no, there would not be a real military to such event, no one is that fucking stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  4. #44
    Pandaren Monk Yadryonych's Avatar
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    Just a little banter normal for major military powers to keep each other in good shape
    Lives matter

  5. #45
    The Lightbringer GreenGoldSharpie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yadryonych View Post
    Just a little banter normal for major military powers to keep each other in good shape
    This is one sloppy blow job to a "power" whose most advanced carrier keeps catching fire.

  6. #46
    Pandaren Monk Yadryonych's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenGoldSharpie View Post
    This is one sloppy blow job to a "power" whose most advanced carrier keeps catching fire.
    Don't think it was a blow job, her majesty's ship managed to leave the scene with dignity
    Lives matter

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenGoldSharpie View Post
    This is one sloppy blow job to a "power" whose most advanced carrier keeps catching fire.
    As opposed to UK who kept insisting that Russians did not fire warning shots? Pfft, both sides managed enough to get some chest beating from this event. Life goes on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  8. #48
    Elemental Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    It wasn't just the UK there but a multinational flotilla, the US and Dutch had warships very close by too. Russia are probably just upset the UK will sell warships to Ukraine.
    Everyone seems so intent on shouting that this was a political victory for the UK/Russia, but the real story is the subtext here.

    We asked the US to sail with us on our bear poking trip, they refused and changed course. At a time when Russia and China are becoming ever closer this is quite disastrous and will certainly serve to embolden Russia/China. If this had happened under the Trump administration then the USN wouldn't have just followed the RN they would have been told to lead the charge for the best photo opportunity.

    This debacle has essentially served as a massive green light to Russia/China that it's time to start pulling Crimea style crap again

  9. #49
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    Russian threatening us a again? I think we call that Monday to Sunday :P

  10. #50
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    Everyone seems so intent on shouting that this was a political victory for the UK/Russia, but the real story is the subtext here.

    We asked the US to sail with us on our bear poking trip, they refused and changed course. At a time when Russia and China are becoming ever closer this is quite disastrous and will certainly serve to embolden Russia/China. If this had happened under the Trump administration then the USN wouldn't have just followed the RN they would have been told to lead the charge for the best photo opportunity.

    This debacle has essentially served as a massive green light to Russia/China that it's time to start pulling Crimea style crap again
    If this had happened under the trump
    Administration he’d have phoned Putin asking him what he wanted the US ship to do.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  11. #51
    Banned Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Legality of Crimean question does not change the de facto situation, which is that Russia controls that territory and sailing over there means an obvious attempt at force demonstration - which can lead to some nasty outcomes.



    Can you cut the chest beating at least for once??? At that distance even that coast guard vessel is a threat to it if it opens fire first.
    It is a single fucking destroyer, you bet Russians can sink it without too much issues that close to the shore and the anti-ship batteries. And no, there would not be a real military to such event, no one is that fucking stupid.
    Oh I am not say Russia would have an issue sinking any warship in the Black Sea, but it would not use Su-24s dropping bombs. This isn't San Carlos Water. A couple of Su-24s would be trivial for a Type 45 to shoot down at close range. It is a comment about a singular situation.

  12. #52
    The Insane Jessicka's Avatar
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    It happens all the time. This time the UK diverted a support vessel, put a film crew on it, and served up a news story to make Britain pretend it was relevant.

    Best part was when Britain initially denied shots were fired.

    Really no one thinks it’s weird that there just happened to be reporters there?

  13. #53
    Pandaren Monk Yadryonych's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    We asked the US to sail with us on our bear poking trip, they refused and changed course. At a time when Russia and China are becoming ever closer this is quite disastrous and will certainly serve to embolden Russia/China. If this had happened under the Trump administration then the USN wouldn't have just followed the RN they would have been told to lead the charge for the best photo opportunity.
    Finally a honest piece of palpable disappointment after two least competent presidents in history still had enough wits to not fall for british trickery. You wont be able to keep up in the next great game at this rate
    Lives matter

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Oh I am not say Russia would have an issue sinking any warship in the Black Sea, but it would not use Su-24s dropping bombs. This isn't San Carlos Water. A couple of Su-24s would be trivial for a Type 45 to shoot down at close range. It is a comment about a singular situation.
    Trivial only of they actually expected attacks. As far as I remember no one is sailing with AA always fully active. And it should be obvious that Su-24's would not be dropping bombs "from close range" in battle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  15. #55
    Banned Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Trivial only of they actually expected attacks. As far as I remember no one is sailing with AA always fully active. And it should be obvious that Su-24's would not be dropping bombs "from close range" in battle.
    Actually, by definition, during innocent passage all weapon systems are supposed to be off-line. The point being dropping bombs is a feeble way of showing off power. Buzzing the ship with a few Tu-22M3s armed with 3 AS-4s would be a better method, as those actually have a reasonable chance of sinking the ship.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Actually, by definition, during innocent passage all weapon systems are supposed to be off-line. The point being dropping bombs is a feeble way of showing off power. Buzzing the ship with a few Tu-22M3s armed with 3 AS-4s would be a better method, as those actually have a reasonable chance of sinking the ship.
    HE bomb in a ship without armor exploding somewhere deep? Brah, Falklands? But yes, ASM's would work better.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  17. #57
    Banned Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    HE bomb in a ship without armor exploding somewhere deep? Brah, Falklands? But yes, ASM's would work better.
    The open area they were in is not the San Carlos Water.

  18. #58
    Elemental Lord
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    Wow, turns out somebody has leaked the governments plans for this operation by leaving a copy of the file at a bus stop xD (plus plans for the future of troops in Afghanistan)

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57624942


    Quote Originally Posted by Yadryonych View Post
    Finally a honest piece of palpable disappointment after two least competent presidents in history still had enough wits to not fall for british trickery. You wont be able to keep up in the next great game at this rate
    Does anyone know what language this is? I tried to get Google to translate it into English but no luck
    Last edited by caervek; 2021-06-27 at 12:55 PM. Reason: Spelling

  19. #59
    The Insane Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    Wow, turns out somebody has leaked the governments plans for this operation by leaving a copy of the file at a bus stop xD (plus plans for the future of troops in Afghanistan)

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57624942




    Does anyone know what language this is? I tried to get Google to translate it into English but no luck
    Well there you go, British propaganda op. Government so incompetent they can’t even make obvious ‘bad guys’ look bad.

  20. #60
    The Unstoppable Force Bakis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    You mean joined after a vote not recognized by international community ? Thus those water are ukrainian.
    Shalcker is Russian he only experienced sham votes in his lifetime.
    Fox News Media is proud of our 2020 election coverage, which stands in the highest tradition of American journalism, and we will vigorously defend against this baseless lawsuit in court," the media company said in its response.
    Equally outrageously hilarious as sad

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