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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by TheramoreIsTheBomb View Post
    Let's face it, you wouldn't be playing if you were truly 100% frustrated with the game.
    Well, I'm not =P

    And what kind of bullshit logic is that? You're only able to criticize or think the game isn't great if you are 100% frustrated with it? Things are not black and white.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheramoreIsTheBomb View Post
    instead of whining, submit actual feedback about the systems you don't like.
    Well, that's what a lot of people are doing, except you're just boiling it down to "whining" because you disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheramoreIsTheBomb View Post
    WoW could be far worse.
    "It could be far worse". They should print that on the box

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by TheramoreIsTheBomb View Post
    WoW could be far worse.
    Is this the success criteria now?

  3. #83
    Hmm, lets see. (note i have suspended my wow gametime again for a while already, not coming back for 9.1).

    - Story was decent the first time leveling, horrible on any alt.
    - The raid was between mediocre and good.
    - Dungeons are so-so, not bad not great.
    - All the bloat systems are again terrible.
    - The maw is terrible.
    - The weekly slot machine for gear is absolutely the most ridiculously terrible system for gear we ever had.
    - Class balance is bad.
    - Torghast had potential but turned out to be mediocre.
    - Covenants had potential but turned out to be mediocre, also the stories are rehashed across the covenants and switching covenant is way too punishing.

    The delay was not why i quit, i quit because i got bored of the expansion itself again really quick (did the same for bfa, and only came back for SL launch). All in all i would give it a 3/10 based on the points above combined. A bit more decent than bfa (of what i have played of it, anyway) but way below legion, wotlk, tbc etc.
    Last edited by BeerEelemental; 2021-06-25 at 09:17 AM.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by TheramoreIsTheBomb View Post
    Let's face it, you wouldn't be playing if you were truly 100% frustrated with the game. When SL is compared to BFA which was full of systems atop systems on system for a system to unlock a system for a system or to WoD where we barely got any content at all, you should be far more thankful for what you have now than compared to then. SL is the new modern MoP. People hated MoP when it was current then loved it when WoD showed its true colors.

    Fun fact: The wait between 9.0 and 9.1 is the same amount of time that it took for WoD to release all of it's content.
    But compared to 6.1 and 9.1 there's actual content worth doing. And 8.1 and 9.1? There's less systems. FAR less grind too.
    There is no forced grind in SL like we had with Azerite essences, legendary cloak/vision farm, and stuff to slow down your progression. Anima is entirely optional and has only cosmetic rewards behind it. Your legendary is the only thing you have to work for but even then with 9.1 it'll be even easier to get. Renown comes from all forms of content and is also completely optional on alts. You're not forced to do the campaign on them. Remember trying to farm coins for your BiS corruption? Remember receiving only 1 option in chest? You don't have to do that anymore in SL. Remember appexis crystals? Exalted and revered reps for flying in past expansions? Yeah, you don't need that either.

    People cried about waiting now those same people are crying about receiving content. Put on the big boy and big girl pants, take off the rose tinted glasses, and instead of whining, submit actual feedback about the systems you don't like. New content is coming. There will be content in 9.1.5 and there will at least be a 9.2.

    WoW could be far worse.
    I agree and appreciate the idea of the thread, buuuut seeing as this is MMO-C, it won't be taken kindly. Halve the people in this forum aren't even playing and judge the game from what others tell them to think (easily recognized by them constantly bringing up false "facts") and the rest isn't far off. Voicing a positive opinion here makes you an outsider immediatedly.

    The content draught has left many jaded, but that doesn't change the fact that SL made several excellent improvements to the game's systems and has a lot of content to keep you busy, if you take what the game is offering you.

    The idea that it is somehow worse then WoD is ridiculously stupid. It's just pure nonesense born from the fact that the past always seems brighter when looking back. Fact is WoD had halve the content of SL even now, with next to nothing to do for daily players. No World Quests, no M+, no nothing. If people were reasonable then they would immediatedly see this, but they are not.

    For them same reason this thread will be bombed by the haters immediatedly.

  5. #85
    Shadowlands was fun for a bit when it launched but once you reached max level you get this sudden hit of all these systems that make up for most end game content. I also find this expansion lacking in content, even if you count out the content drought its apparent that it launched with much less content than most other expansions. Only 4 questing zones with the Maw being a daily zone, only 8 dungeons (out of my head its the least we have gotten yet), only 1 raid that lasted for way too long without adding something like a lair raid to compensate for it. Worst of all it didn't add a new class which broke the new class/race cycle (BFA's allied races were kind of new races), the only other expansion that broke the cycle was WoD..... and it was so well liked, right?

    I doubt that if 9.1 came out a lot sooner that I'd enjoy Shadowlands a whole lot more, considering that I'm not interested to see more Maw/Torghast/Sylvanas. At least it would have added flying sooner (they SHOULD have released it sooner..) which would make it more bearable to traverse through these clumsy hill/wall obstacles. I just hope that the next content drought won't be as bad. But as of now I'm more happy playing Classic TBC and other games.

  6. #86
    I tolerated BFA way more than SL. At least in BFA my class was good for something.

    In Shadowlands Havoc was dogshit in M+, PvP AND Raids.

    It's not like I was paying Blizzard anyway ( paid with gold ) but I was so offended by my class being shit that I outright stopped buying tokens with my gold.

    They need to fix class balance and stop making raids punishing for melee.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    No. It's a shit expansion. It manages to be worse than WoD which is incredibly impressive. There absolute is nothing worth doing in SL. Everything is boring and tedious. The way zones are broken apart by annoying flightpoints makes it even worse.
    And here we have the perfect example of what I was saying. Hasn't played SLs, only repeating points Streamers said month ago and unreasonably propping up WoD. In fact this one has long since moved to Final Fantasy and yet spends every free moment to make up false claims about WoW.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Is this the success criteria now?
    There are no success criteria for expac outside player count on average and money they make during expac.

  9. #89
    Here's what I don't like about ShadowLands, which has nothing to do with the content Draught.

    Torghast

    Thorghast was a gameplay feature I was looking forward to, since I am a huge fan of Rogue games (Hades, binding of Isaac, Loop Hero, Monster Train.) It is the genre I have spent the most time playing, outside of MMOs, and had I started playing Rogue games at the same time as I began playing WoW, it would have been my most played Genre. Torghast is a poor excuse for a Rogue inspired feature.

    Incredibly unbalanced because of classes (Some breezes through, others struggle, and it's big disparities,) the general power ups are very lackluster in creativity and most importantly quanitity. Almost every run of Torghast on a given spec feels the same, because the moment I see one of the OP powers (Which happens very often, because of the small power pool.) The run turns into the same as the last.

    The generla Aesthetics of Torghast are also painfully dull. Almost all of the wings feels the same. The wing specific torment has almost no real impact, other than the fire one, for classes with limited ways to keep themselves topped off. Wings are all dull, grey and lacking in personality. Binding of Isaac is a game that uses very muddled color schemes, but the floors still feel distinctively different. In Hades, you literally go for roman inspired, underworld architecture, to lava river, to luscious gardens. In Torghast, every run amounts to 6 floors of the same color / theme / appearance. It's either grey, orange or icy Torghast walls, or dull, green/greyish mountain area, the wing with the ghosts.

    Enemy units is another incredibly lackluster element. Because of the wing system, you know all the mobs in a given wing, after having run it one, single time. Because it's the same 4-5 different, identical units, for 6 identical floors. Then we have bosses, which is probably one of the worst rogue implementations I've ever seen. If you look at bosses (And enemies for that matter) in other rogue games, they have some features in common. They're all unique, they all have their own mechanics, but most importantly, their damage output largely remains the same, no matter the difficulty. In world of warcraft, the bosses are... Unique I suppose, they look different, but because of the scaling system, difficulty of the bosses does not stem from their abilities or unique gimmics, it stems from the unavoidable auto attacks / filler casts of the bosses. Bosses (And enemies) in other rogue games biggest biggest, common mechanic, is that you can do them without taking a single hit of damage. I know this cannot be done for Torghast, because it is also an MMORPG, but there's way too much weight on the WoW mechanics, and not at all enough on the Rogue mechanics.

    Covenants

    Covenants was probably the worst feature in Shadowlands for me. As a variety gamer, and someone who loves trying out different stuff, covenants and legendaries completely nullified everything I enjoy about playing a game like WoW. If I want to play a class / spec optimally, I will always feel pressured into playing what is meta. If I want to try something else for fun, or for another aspect of the game, (PvP, PvE, World Content, Tmog farming, RP, Boosting, Timewalking) changing is just too tedious, takes way too long, and is way too penalizing. It's not a meaningful choice in any way, because there's always going to be a binary, correct choice, due to the nature of the game, its playerbase, and the fact that the internet exists in 2021. The only way you'll be able to create meaningful choices, that doesn't feel bad, is to make them relate to appearance (Cosmetics) or story (Political agenda, for example, which could have been an interesting Element in the shadowlands, with the draught and issues.)

    Balancing

    There's another one for you. Spec balance has, in my opinion become a joke, but this one is actually tied a bit more to the content draught than it should be. Because Blizzard made the decision not to make any major class / spec changes between major patches, we've been sitting on the same balance for 8 months, with classes / specs that severely underperforms either in terms of damage or utility. Choosing not to do larger class / spec balancing mid patch is not going to work, if they cannot consistently put out major patches.

    Dungeons

    Dungeons have become too difficult. This is a very subjective statement, but it is one I stand by. Dungeons simply have way more mechanics and scaling than they should at this point. I am all for having more difficult content, do not get me wrong, I used to do CE raiding, and pushed some M+ in BFA and very little in Shadowlands, but every ounce of difiiculty in modern dungeons is burst-difficulty. Mistakes are just too punishing in my opinion, is what I'd boil it down to I guess. I think I've overall written enough though, those are my main issues. Aside from the fact there's been a gigantic content draught in the opening state of the game.

  10. #90
    Titan Grimbold21's Avatar
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    Well, I unsubscribed from my sub.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post

    For them same reason this thread will be bombed by the haters immediatedly.
    There was a video on youtube (check Negativity in WoW) which explains the mentality of WoW playerbase perfectly.

    Basically, the community (a big part at least) has a case of an extreme negative bias, which means they only focus on the bad stuff, while the good stuff slips past by. WoW is not unique in this however, hate/bashing videos get more views compared to positive ones across all types of subjects. All of this is explained in the video.

    About the false facts, that is must, especially on these forums. WoD praising is a perfect example, like you mentioned.

    Third thing is the exaggerating. Notice how people complain they are forced to ''grind systems'', while at the same time you had threads where people are complaining they only raid log and have nothing do to. Anima is for cosmetic stuff only. Shadowlands systems are far less convulted and oppressive compared to LG and BfA, but people are still bashing it (because apparently, the soulbind system is ''hard''). Borrowed power via covenants is radically different compared to essences, corruption and azerite armor since those 3 were literally external systems which existed outside of your char, while covenant abilities often have interaction with you spec and it feels more natural.

    Just remember not to take most of the bashing seriously, it can seriously endanger your enjoyment of the game.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Is this the success criteria now?
    Obviously it is not. The point is that the game is in a far better state then the haters in this forum make it sound. The content draught is unfortunate, but people have been overly negative on this forum forever.

  13. #93
    The Patient Hastis's Avatar
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    just remove conduits it sucks.. its meh expansion but they should add 9.1 faster, now they should annouce 9.2

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by korijenkins View Post
    Uhh a content drought is a sign of a bad expansion. It means they either had very little to show, or gave up.
    It's probably a sign of tight budgets. So, given the likely sub loss they've now experienced, future expansions, if any, will likely be even worse.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Sooner or later everyone sits down to a banquet of consequences." -- Robert Louis Stevenson
    If you didn't get your COVID shot it's probably too late now, you fool.

  15. #95
    Its bit early for this tier of Copium isn't it? usually the blind brand loyalists save this kind of strange going to bat to defend milady's purity defence of activision for the final patch. The usual schedule should have you making "The REAL reason" threads at this point.

    But then off schedule kind of sums up Shadowlands so fair do's i guess.
    http://theeorzeanfrontier.blogspot.co.uk/ Neckbeard rambling about this weeaboo trash

  16. #96
    Brewmaster Pheraz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheramoreIsTheBomb View Post
    Let's face it, you wouldn't be playing if you were truly 100% frustrated with the game. When SL is compared to BFA which was full of systems atop systems on system for a system to unlock a system for a system or to WoD where we barely got any content at all, you should be far more thankful for what you have now than compared to then. SL is the new modern MoP. People hated MoP when it was current then loved it when WoD showed its true colors.

    Fun fact: The wait between 9.0 and 9.1 is the same amount of time that it took for WoD to release all of it's content.
    But compared to 6.1 and 9.1 there's actual content worth doing. And 8.1 and 9.1? There's less systems. FAR less grind too.
    There is no forced grind in SL like we had with Azerite essences, legendary cloak/vision farm, and stuff to slow down your progression. Anima is entirely optional and has only cosmetic rewards behind it. Your legendary is the only thing you have to work for but even then with 9.1 it'll be even easier to get. Renown comes from all forms of content and is also completely optional on alts. You're not forced to do the campaign on them. Remember trying to farm coins for your BiS corruption? Remember receiving only 1 option in chest? You don't have to do that anymore in SL. Remember appexis crystals? Exalted and revered reps for flying in past expansions? Yeah, you don't need that either.

    People cried about waiting now those same people are crying about receiving content. Put on the big boy and big girl pants, take off the rose tinted glasses, and instead of whining, submit actual feedback about the systems you don't like. New content is coming. There will be content in 9.1.5 and there will at least be a 9.2.

    WoW could be far worse.
    No!

    I don't like the theme. The theme is plastique and awkward (green flesh + bones in a spirit realm) - in my opinion.

    I miss casual content like warfronts, islands and the mage tower.

    I preferred to carry my "system" around with me instead of running to the hub again.

    I preferred to just start the WQs instead of needing to travel to the hub again to accept the callings.

    So, no, it's not only because of the content draught. SL is clearly not the worst xpac, but it is def. not my fav, no. Thanks
    Vynd | Zorn | Pheraz | Silwyna | Mondlicht | Eis | Blut | Emerelle - My personal Kaldorei army <3 Plus lots of voidy high elves <3

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Pheraz View Post
    SL is clearly not the worst xpac,
    My personal reaction to this xpac is by far the most negative. By that criterion, I consider it the worst xpac, and it's not even close. By mid-December I simply stopped playing, more than two months before my sub ran out.

    I did keep monitoring what was happening with guildies and friends. Although not all stopped playing, many did. The attrition among them has been brutal.
    Last edited by Osmeric; 2021-06-25 at 10:53 AM.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Sooner or later everyone sits down to a banquet of consequences." -- Robert Louis Stevenson
    If you didn't get your COVID shot it's probably too late now, you fool.

  18. #98
    I played bfa more then sl sl is the expansion i have played the least since BC.

    Think when Lost ark comes im done with wow for good perhaps only checking out new expansion launched.
    Do you hear the voices too?

  19. #99
    I like the content drought, since I don't like Shadowlands. If there was fun stuff to do I would have wanted more content, but I don't. We just have more of the same aka more systems we never wanted in the first place.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Thundering View Post
    Shadowlands is bad.

    EVEN Classic wow is better, and that is a bit sad .
    shadowlands is fine, classic is fine too, but definitely not better than sl...

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