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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    How do you play a gay character in WoW?
    The poster that I quoted and responded stated that games shouldn't have lgbt characters because people don't usually want to roleplay as themselves, so even if a player is gay irl they wouldn't pick a gay character. And proof for all that is because the poster likes to play female characters while being male irl. I just said that based on that argument it's as likely to have someone who isn't gay and wants to roleplay as gay in a game, thus the argument is dumb.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    Considering if she dies after Shadowlands, "what comes next after Shadowlands" is in fact "nothing..." Why would we have to "wait and see?"

    Death is final. Or at least, death in the Shadowlands is final. Unless we're about to get a Shadowshadowlands reveal, where the dead go when they die... But please, spare me the pain of this nonsense.
    Could be a number of things. I guess we'll just have to "wait and see"? She could disappear in some other way than die. Or she could be punished in some other way than die. Or she could transform into something after dying. And so on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Remember, its only political if it involves minorities and women. /s
    Yeah, it's so sad that this opinions is still so popular among "gamers" in year 2021. "It's not politics as long as I'm comfortable with it because I've been brought up by people whose political views consider this the default state".
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cavox View Post
    I want Activision-Blizzard to burn, but for crimes against gaming, not because they got me too'd.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thetruth1400 View Post
    Not surprised in the least if they go the shitty writing "oh she's redeemed!" route to be honest. She only did many morally reprehensible things, why should she be held accountable when at the last second she can have a "come to Jesus" moment and all is forgiven.

    As a Night Elf player, I can say that might be the final nail in the coffin for WoW for me. I can forgive a lot, but not a clearly evil character who did absolutely nothing but evil no matter their "actual motivation" behind it. Sylvanas literally committed mass genocide, she doesn't just get to walk away from that with an "All is forgiven" and handshake.

    All those souls she condemned to hell will never get a 2nd chance so why should she get a, what are we up to, 5th chance now? She is irredeemable.
    I don't think they will redeem her. I reckon she will be sent to the Maw to be Garrosh's plaything

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Azerate View Post
    Yeah, it's so sad that this opinions is still so popular among "gamers" in year 2021. "It's not politics as long as I'm comfortable with it because I've been brought up by people whose political views consider this the default state".
    I think this is a weak argument for the most part. Fantasy or historical settings usually aren't making political statements about our modern world or even try to tell us what the "default state" ought to be. Otherwise any setting with an idealized "good king" could easily be misconstrued as an argument for monarchism/feudalism/absolutism depending on the given setting. Likewise, the absence of open representation of certain historically marginalized groups isn't necessarily a political statement against these groups but is rather usually rooted in the customs of the time periods people choose as inspiration for their fictional setting.

    However, when you start changing these things for reasons that are rooted in contemporary politics in an effort to make these fictional worlds more like our own world, it becomes quite apparent to almost everyone that there is a crucial difference here.
    The absolute state of Warcraft lore in 2021:
    Kyrians: We need to keep chucking people into the Maw because it's our job.
    Also Kyrians: Why is the Maw growing stronger despite all our efforts?

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    That's actually a very good take. Its impossible to predict anything anymore because power levels, allegiencies and motivations seem to shift around all the time and out of nowhere. Past events get either retconned for expanded to fit current lore.
    It is ok if this happens ones, plot twists are good and can be entertaining (even more so if the players realizes he could have seen it coming but didn't), but if its basically the only way of storytelling, it's just too much.
    Internal consistency is something you're not allowed to say at Blizzard HQ, alongside the f-bomb, the n-word, and "Bobby Kotick looks like someone tried to stretch Warwick Davis's skin over John Goodman's flensed corpse."
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  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom View Post
    Look, this whole thing is nice and all, but anyone pretending these moves made by most or just some companies are anything but modern pandering to drum up business is hopelessly naive. I don't think this is true of EVERY company, but I bet if you threw quite a few companies back in time where racism or discrimination against LGBTQ was in vogue, they'd be slavening to please the "past" consumer nonetheless.
    It’s even more pathetic when they have one set of standards for business in America, but their Chinese and middle eastern branches will have the dead ass opposite opinion and Blizz is too cowardly to put their morals ahead of their profits

    Because of that, any time they preach, it’s meaningless because they don’t even have the courage to back their own convictions.

    You see this with celebrities too such as lebron who bashes america all the time, but openly profits off slave labor himself worse than any southern plantation owner ever did.

    Hypocrites

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    Thinking they could get players to like Garrosh long after that ship had sailed was dumb, but this would be next level stupid.
    To be fair I could see Garrosh becoming likeable if they simply kept going with what they had shown at the end of Stonetalon questline and just ignore fan booing.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    That's actually a very good take. Its impossible to predict anything anymore because power levels, allegiencies and motivations seem to shift around all the time and out of nowhere. Past events get either retconned for expanded to fit current lore.
    It is ok if this happens ones, plot twists are good and can be entertaining (even more so if the players realizes he could have seen it coming but didn't), but if its basically the only way of storytelling, it's just too much.
    I don't know, I think the whispers and various quotes by the Old Gods and so on over the last few years have been mostly correct.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivank0v View Post
    Trying not be a cyncical asshole...but what a joke product this game has become - it's hard to find these interviews anything outright laughable.

    "wanted to focus on the quality" ----- as opposed to what?

    And slyvannas has been a mediocre presence in the game before WoW. I'm really glad to see them anchoring their franchise on a trash character, supported by trash fanbois.
    As opposed to features and QoL changes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by aceperson View Post
    what are you trying to say? i'm going to dissect what you said and explain why it makes no sense to me.

    "they're not saying it's the players fault."

    this is an easy point to understand. i don't agree with it, but the premise is clear.

    "they're simply saying there is feedback they didn't get because context changes feedback."

    so the devs didn't get feedback they wanted because they willingly didn't give the context the testers needed to provide proper feedback. fair enough.

    "people weren't playing it in live, and so that context wasn't there."

    what does playing it in live mean? they weren't playing the release version? cause they did in the late beta. so unless you can clearly explain what i'm not understanding, this sentence comes across as "the devs didn't give the players context so it's the players fault for not providing proper feedback". if blizz wanted directed feedback, why didn't they make a blog post or something on their super secret, elite players only forum that explained what they were looking for in feedback?
    They are 100% saying it's the players fault. A developer should KNOW the context. They always say "worry about tuning and all the other stuff later, look for bugs" and NOW they say "wait, we wanted more than that!" -- nah, they aren't being honest here and aren't accepting responsibility for the problems.

    They are supposed to know, ahead of time. They allegedly hire some of the best minds to help tweak this. Either a.) they don't have those minds anymore or b.) they have lost connection to the game and don't understand how players play WoW anymore.

    But I'm damn sure it's not the players fault on this in beta testing -- they ignore so much feedback and arrogantly always say they know better and "wait and see". They don't get to go "you didn't do enough for us" now.

    At a BARE MINIMUM their communication skills are terrible. Most likely, they simply are too prideful to accept their faults.

  9. #89
    The WoW team (outside of art) is so grossly incompetent, you could almost pick 10 random WoW players from a lottery and they’d do better as developers than these jokers

    It isn’t even half ass anymore, it’s 1/4 ass effort at best.

    Ion and the entire upper WoW team deserve to be sacked

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kami Dende View Post
    Ahahahahaha. I like that instead of just admitting that years ago they fucked up with Chromies character and gave them the naming convention of a Male Dragon in lore of Chronormu instead of Chronormi and are now trying to spin it to a "MUH REPRESENTATION FOR TRANS" shit.

    Danuser is actual trash and is a major component of the decline in WoW's overall narrative.
    It’s pathetic how transparent this is, and how it doesn’t even fit into the WoW. It’s clearly just bad writing and cheap PR

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    While I've been joking about this being the case since the Shadowlands reveal...

    If this is true, I'll be glad I quit before I played this shitshow in any meaningful capacity.
    Okay? Why though? She'd be a spirit wondering Oribos till the Arbiter gets up and running again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    Alleria's whispers start climaxing

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by ApeDosMil View Post
    TLDR: You're probably a bigot. lol

    Anyone who looks at something as simple and harmless as being inclusive by making a fictional character trans and sees it as politics, has too much time on their hands and is truly, desperately out of touch.

    Cheers.
    In their defense, most of the time black characters or gay characters feel forced and not natural.

    If you need help understand this then I would recommend watching this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3h6es6zh1c

    One of them is your stereotype tv show gay.. the other is a normal gay person you'd meet in day to day life. The former is usually way over the top in tv shows. The latter feels more natural and, more importantly, relatable.

    Another example is the forced "tough girl". Like Rey in Star Wars. Feminist loved her because her character screams "I'm strong BECAUSE I'm female" -- which is quite sexist, the very thing they claim they don't want to be. Then you have Ahsoka Tano who screams "I'm strong" and the female part is implied. Wayyyy more fans love her because her hero'ness feels more natural and believable.

    So sometimes being "inclusive" is just fake (e.g. Ghostbusters) and is really just a pathetic grab because it doesn't feel natural or believable (e.g. Mandolorian). Sure, it's a game, but there are certain aspects that make a game believable and thus more entertaining and relatable.

    It is possible they are a bigot but it's also possible they aren't very good at communicating their annoyances and this also assumes they UNDERSTAND why they feel a certain way -- many people don't understand that part either.

    Then there are people, I presume like you, who only "allow" others to criticize CIS white men. Anything else is scared and one can't have an opinion without risking the upsetting the PC police whose entire goal is to shut down discussion and inhibit understanding.

    Quite possible they ARE a bigot.. but you won't know until you gather more information and be genuine in your interest to learn and understand.

    The only way you convert others away from bigotry.. is talking and understanding.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    It’s pathetic how transparent this is, and how it doesn’t even fit into the WoW. It’s clearly just bad writing and cheap PR
    Indeed. This jumping on the trend bandwagon is cringe as fuck, in the same way they rushed ahead and replaced the Kael voice just to try to attract some sort of attention (even though it just backfires). If WoW was a game that had displays of sexuality, yeah sure it would make sense to include something like it but that's not the case. If you're cool with accepting people's preferred sexuality, you don't need to wear a t-shirt stating it ... it just sends a weird message.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by kranur View Post
    Indeed. This jumping on the trend bandwagon is cringe as fuck, in the same way they rushed ahead and replaced the Kael voice just to try to attract some sort of attention (even though it just backfires). If WoW was a game that had displays of sexuality, yeah sure it would make sense to include something like it but that's not the case. If you're cool with accepting people's preferred sexuality, you don't need to wear a t-shirt stating it ... it just sends a weird message.
    It’s the same issue I have with celebrities like LeBron. I love LeBron first off so I’m not trying to slander the man, but he is a hardcore warrior of justice when it comes to American issues, but he profits off more slave labor than the entire American south did.

    You can’t claim you’re against prejudice, injustice, especially injustices of the past… when you are 100% profiting off the same thing just kinda out of sight and out of mind

    Blizz is the same way, they wanna pretend to give a hoot about social issues but when anything China related comes up they hush up real quick

    You can’t be for justice only when it’s convenient. You can’t pick and choose when to support good and evil.

    It undermines the entire credibility of them tbh. In fact, I can guarantee that they won’t push this chromie story through in Asia. Cowards

  14. #94
    The Lightbringer Darknessvamp's Avatar
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    Could someone lead Danuser to his padded cell already? The fact he doesn't realise centuries old Dragons who predate most of the modern races of WoW by thousands of years having a day dedicated to 'diversity and representation' of much younger races to appeal to current real world moral politics via the use of form favoritism and then using that 'new creation' to pander to certain minor demographics using outside materials is insane shows how much he should be in the loony bin.

    Also his terrible writing does make one question his mental stability.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    Considering if she dies after Shadowlands, "what comes next after Shadowlands" is in fact "nothing..." Why would we have to "wait and see?"

    Death is final. Or at least, death in the Shadowlands is final. Unless we're about to get a Shadowshadowlands reveal, where the dead go when they die... But please, spare me the pain of this nonsense.
    That is not 100% accurate. Death in the Shadowlands is final for the denizens of the Shadowlands, not for us vistors from the lands of the living. Unfortunately that means Sylvanas could die at the end of the raid and then her soul stands back up and is completely fine.

    I wish I could be surprised, but as long as Danuser writes the story for his Dark Lady he was never gonna allow her to die the villain. Her redemption ark is not an assumption by this point, it was obviously going to happen.
    All her disgusting crimes will be forgotten and the Nightelves she murdered in cold blood will never get justice, just because the Lead Writer doesn't care about any character but his beloved Banshee. The only question by this point is how many Alliance characters will have to "willingly give their lives" so that Sylvanas can be safed.

    The amount of favouritism shown to that damn Banshee by this point is disgraceful.

  16. #96
    Korthia will begin to unravel secrets such as the origins of the mysterious waystone used to escape the Maw, and where Oribos comes from.
    I'm sorry, is this something people actually care about? Really didn't expect anyone to be like "Hmm, I wonder where the waystone comes from... I need to know ASAP!"

  17. #97
    Bloodsail Admiral froschhure's Avatar
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    Happy to read all these lovely comments about honesty and value. Hazzicostas as cheap as ever.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    It’s pathetic how transparent this is, and how it doesn’t even fit into the WoW. It’s clearly just bad writing and cheap PR
    Instead of throwing a fit about a company doing the only right thing and following the conventions, you should be more angry about the world around it. If halve of humanity wasn't still mentally in the dark ages about these topics, it would not be necessary or profitable to show these virtue flags to mark yourself different.

    And yes, it is terrible they have to remove these things when they want to sell their games in certain countries, but they can't very well ignore such a giant market. The scandal is that they are forced to make these changes not that they do.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    Instead of throwing a fit about a company doing the only right thing and following the conventions, you should be more angry about the world around it. If halve of humanity wasn't still mentally in the dark ages about these topics, it would not be necessary or profitable to show these virtue flags to mark yourself different.

    And yes, it is terrible they have to remove these things when they want to sell their games in certain countries, but they can't very well ignore such a giant market. The scandal is that they are forced to make these changes not that they do.
    Yes, they can ignore a giant market. It's called principals over profits.

    You can't preach morality on one hand, while supporting and submitting to absolute evil on the other hand. It undermines the entire message, and credibility. Either have the testicular fortitude to stand by your morals, or don't preach them falsely at anyone.

    that's the part people rightfully call out... if you wanna be a greedy fat cat with zero morals, that's OK. this is america, but you can't preach morality and tolerance on one hand, and on the other completely undermine every bit of it by supporting the worlds most oppressive regime.
    Last edited by justandulas; 2021-06-27 at 04:33 PM.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    That is not 100% accurate. Death in the Shadowlands is final for the denizens of the Shadowlands, not for us vistors from the lands of the living. Unfortunately that means Sylvanas could die at the end of the raid and then her soul stands back up and is completely fine.

    I wish I could be surprised, but as long as Danuser writes the story for his Dark Lady he was never gonna allow her to die the villain. Her redemption ark is not an assumption by this point, it was obviously going to happen.
    All her disgusting crimes will be forgotten and the Nightelves she murdered in cold blood will never get justice, just because the Lead Writer doesn't care about any character but his beloved Banshee. The only question by this point is how many Alliance characters will have to "willingly give their lives" so that Sylvanas can be safed.

    The amount of favouritism shown to that damn Banshee by this point is disgraceful.
    The guy literally invented all these metaphysical constructs and retconned half of WoW's lore in order to give Sylvanas a happy ending. You almost have to admire the audacity of it.
    The absolute state of Warcraft lore in 2021:
    Kyrians: We need to keep chucking people into the Maw because it's our job.
    Also Kyrians: Why is the Maw growing stronger despite all our efforts?

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