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  1. #1

    Impact of MTX on WoW Game Design

    I've been quiet on this topic for a little while, and working in a relatively senior position in a large multi-national company I see the short term thinking that polutes the design of products and services being put out to customers. 'Agile' is just make believe to drive piss poor quality to market quicker than a fully developed product.
    Now when it comes to gaming I look at examples like Fallout 76, take already developed assets, Fallout 4, and create a short development cycle to deliver a largely MTX driven product, which was shite at launch.
    Now to WoW: I look at how the game has evolved since WoD, maybe a little earlier. Existing game mechanics, rep, dailies, have been dragged out to keep MAU high, but the token is the real interesting point, I look at the 9.1 change to KSM, needing two runs of the dungeons, unless you are doing 20+ to balance. It feels to me like more cheap game design driven at doubling the amount runs, boosts, needing to elevate the sales of tokens.
    I'm interested in what you guys think, you clearly love the product, as do I, but I feel it just gets worst each time. Thanks Capitalism, short term numbers, thoughts, design and strategy.
    Where does this stop or end, or does it not and we just run the game into the floor.
    Ion, Brack, all just puppets to Activision. Blizzard's forte was quality above quantity, and that doesn't wash in 2021 - it's just a hollow shell living on the passion of Metzen, Morhaime, and company.
    I also have heard that rumours Afrasiabi being sacked due to harassment allegations are true and why he was moved with no fuss, despite his passion for the game.
    What do you guys think?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by TaurenFemaleLovah View Post
    I've been quiet on this topic for a little while,
    What do you guys think?
    You should keep it that way.
    Also, I think MMo champ should split General forum and make a subsection of "Blizzard is doomed, devs are clowns, Activision designs the game around MAU".

  3. #3
    Yeah dude, the company behind the single longest introductory patch since the game's launch is clearly only concerned with quantity over quality.
    New BiS for 9.1!

    [ twitch ][ Retired Semi-retired as of 2018 ] [ The Official MMO-Champion Bingo Card. ] [ WoW's Community in 2021, illustrated ]
    [ That time I predicted the future...twice. ] [ How do you know if somebody posting on a WoW forum is a FFXIV player? Don't worry, they'll tell you. ]

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by TaurenFemaleLovah View Post
    I've been quiet on this topic for a little while, and working in a relatively senior position in a large multi-national company I see the short term thinking that polutes the design of products and services being put out to customers. 'Agile' is just make believe to drive piss poor quality to market quicker than a fully developed product.
    Now when it comes to gaming I look at examples like Fallout 76, take already developed assets, Fallout 4, and create a short development cycle to deliver a largely MTX driven product, which was shite at launch.
    Now to WoW: I look at how the game has evolved since WoD, maybe a little earlier. Existing game mechanics, rep, dailies, have been dragged out to keep MAU high, but the token is the real interesting point, I look at the 9.1 change to KSM, needing two runs of the dungeons, unless you are doing 20+ to balance. It feels to me like more cheap game design driven at doubling the amount runs, boosts, needing to elevate the sales of tokens.
    I'm interested in what you guys think, you clearly love the product, as do I, but I feel it just gets worst each time. Thanks Capitalism, short term numbers, thoughts, design and strategy.
    Where does this stop or end, or does it not and we just run the game into the floor.
    Ion, Brack, all just puppets to Activision. Blizzard's forte was quality above quantity, and that doesn't wash in 2021 - it's just a hollow shell living on the passion of Metzen, Morhaime, and company.
    I also have heard that rumours Afrasiabi being sacked due to harassment allegations are true and why he was moved with no fuss, despite his passion for the game.
    What do you guys think?
    While i see your point and worry similarly i feel the need to stress that this isn't capitalism per se, but rather the American neoliberal interpretation of it.

    That the US has devolved into a plutocracy has only exacerbated its problems, made them more clear.

    It is growth indeed, but cancerous; it draws resources away to fuel destructive tumors.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Yeah dude, the company behind the single longest introductory patch since the game's launch is clearly only concerned with quantity over quality.
    Despite them saying themselves the delay is down to COVID, if you have nothing to add, don't waste your time, and mine posting.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Atharaxie View Post
    You should keep it that way.
    Also, I think MMo champ should split General forum and make a subsection of "Blizzard is doomed, devs are clowns, Activision designs the game around MAU".
    The definition of talking and saying nothing right here.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by TaurenFemaleLovah View Post
    Despite them saying themselves the delay is down to COVID, if you have nothing to add, don't waste your time, and mine posting.
    I'm wasting your time? Did you actually think literally anything you just wrote hasn't already been said a million times on this forum before?
    New BiS for 9.1!

    [ twitch ][ Retired Semi-retired as of 2018 ] [ The Official MMO-Champion Bingo Card. ] [ WoW's Community in 2021, illustrated ]
    [ That time I predicted the future...twice. ] [ How do you know if somebody posting on a WoW forum is a FFXIV player? Don't worry, they'll tell you. ]

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    While i see your point and worry similarly i feel the need to stress that this isn't capitalism per se, but rather the American neoliberal interpretation of it.

    That the US has devolved into a plutocracy has only exacerbated its problems, made them more clear.

    It is growth indeed, but cancerous; it draws resources away to fuel destructive tumors.
    Thank you for the only reply that adds anything, I actually want the game to prosper, but when you have to find ways to keep MTX numbers increasing, I actually feel for Ion and the teams who are taking orders from the likes of Kotick.

    It also speaks volumes that Ubisoft are splitting their resources to focus on on F2P models, i.e. lazy MTX driven 'experiences.'

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by TaurenFemaleLovah View Post
    Thank you for the only reply that adds anything, I actually want the game to prosper, but when you have to find ways to keep MTX numbers increasing, I actually feel for Ion and the teams who are taking orders from the likes of Kotick.

    It also speaks volumes that Ubisoft are splitting their resources to focus on on F2P models, i.e. lazy MTX driven 'experiences.'
    You only want replies that agree with your pointlessly cynical outlook. Gotcha, guess I'll step out because lord knows this forum needs yet another "WoW is dead" negativity echo chamber.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    It ends when Wow's customers start looking at competitors. Wow has an extremely loyal base made of players. They come and go but they keep coming back, so Actiblizz is focused on convincing them to play longer when they do come back, through time gating. Wow doesn't need to make the game that good, they just need to make it last a while, primarily because they don't have competitors. But once they do, they can't get away with this shit.
    WoW is unique in that it's the only community of players who hate the game yet continue to spend $15/mo to support it. Strange.
    New BiS for 9.1!

    [ twitch ][ Retired Semi-retired as of 2018 ] [ The Official MMO-Champion Bingo Card. ] [ WoW's Community in 2021, illustrated ]
    [ That time I predicted the future...twice. ] [ How do you know if somebody posting on a WoW forum is a FFXIV player? Don't worry, they'll tell you. ]

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    While i see your point and worry similarly i feel the need to stress that this isn't capitalism per se, but rather the American neoliberal interpretation of it.

    That the US has devolved into a plutocracy has only exacerbated its problems, made them more clear.

    It is growth indeed, but cancerous; it draws resources away to fuel destructive tumors.
    If you genuinely believe that this isn't the endgoal of capitalism,either you're fooling yourself in order to not see it,or you're very naive.

    Capitalism will always end up with a few people with a lot more power than the rest (there can't be winners without losers in economy,money has to come from somewhere),and those people will do their best to reinforce their position. What you're seeing today in the US is what happens when capitalists succeed at reinforcing that position. This is always what they'll strive for,and this is the guaranteed outcome regardless of if you have "real" capitalism or not

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    You only want replies that agree with your pointlessly cynical outlook. Gotcha, guess I'll step out because lord knows this forum needs yet another "WoW is dead" negativity echo chamber.
    About as pointless at yours then, where did I say 'WoW is dead?', oh I didn't you just perceive someone's concern for your own morbid take.

    Please do step out, your posts are worthless. But, gotta increase that post count...

  11. #11
    Scarab Lord Maljinwo's Avatar
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    The difference is that i still find Fallout 76 fun
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

  12. #12
    The Insane Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TaurenFemaleLovah View Post
    What do you guys think?
    WoW has been designed around dragging out MAUs since the very beginning. Zones were designed to make it take longer for the player to get from point A to point B, meaning that they accomplish less in their play session and require more play sessions to progress through the game, which in turn means they have to stay subscribed for longer, which means more money. Additional raid tiers were added in Wrath to drag out raid progression. Rather than just killing Kel'Thuzad and saying "I did it! I've beaten WoW!" and unsubbing until the next raid drops, now you spend weeks progging to beat the Lich King on normal... and then you have to spend weeks progging to beat him on heroic. And then you have to spend weeks progging to beat him on Mythic. Oh, and now you have to spend weeks doing daily chores in order to get geared just to even do normal in the first place...

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by TaurenFemaleLovah View Post
    Thanks Capitalism, short term numbers, thoughts, design and strategy.

    lmao

    enough said about anything you think, really. i'd love to see how any type of video gaming system works under a system that's not capitalism driven. take a look at china's video game market and let us know about how thats going.

    who makes the video game consoles again? oohhh thats right theyre all part of capitalist countries.... weird how that works out....


    keep your dogshit politics you have 0 idea about out of shit that happens because a company gets bought out and turned into a zombie. dont like it? dont play it.

    that's capitalism, baby.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyou
    [Shadowmourne, I went to Icecrown and was hoping for Frostmourne but all I got was this lame axe]

  14. #14
    I mean, you can make any story of why Blizzard does what it does and defend it with sound logic. Doesn't mean any of it is true.

    There is no purpose speculating. Buy the product, or don't.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by BlimeyLimey View Post
    lmao

    enough said about anything you think, really. i'd love to see how any type of video gaming system works under a system that's not capitalism driven. take a look at china's video game market and let us know about how thats going.

    who makes the video game consoles again? oohhh thats right theyre all part of capitalist countries.... weird how that works out....


    keep your dogshit politics you have 0 idea about out of shit that happens because a company gets bought out and turned into a zombie. dont like it? dont play it.

    that's capitalism, baby.
    I asked for thoughts, not an incoherent mumble, if you know what that means.

    I don't live in China and WoW isn't on console, carry on talking outta your ass.

    Hurr durr: don't like it, don't play it. How original, do you understand debate?

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by ONCHEhap View Post
    If you genuinely believe that this isn't the endgoal of capitalism,either you're fooling yourself in order to not see it,or you're very naive.

    Capitalism will always end up with a few people with a lot more power than the rest (there can't be winners without losers in economy,money has to come from somewhere),and those people will do their best to reinforce their position. What you're seeing today in the US is what happens when capitalists succeed at reinforcing that position. This is always what they'll strive for,and this is the guaranteed outcome regardless of if you have "real" capitalism or not
    video games wouldnt exist without capitalism, socialist societies like the soviet union were structured around rigid beliefs that everyone should be a worker, which in the soviet times meant industrial/ farm worker ( thats what the hammer and sickle meant), you would also most likely be forced into such an occupation, there was almost zero developments of luxury products- diss companies all you want but dont diss capitalism thats the only reason alot of us can sit here and play all day

  17. #17
    The Insane Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arandomuser View Post
    there was almost zero developments of luxury products
    There was plenty of art and entertainment prior to the rise of capitalism. Most people never heard Mozart's music while he was alive; he composed for the wealthy and their chamber orchestras. His music eventually reached the masses when the wealthy began increasing the size of their private chamber orchestras to each orchestras seen today, put them in opera houses, and invited the masses to come listen to the music as a sign of the orchestra owner's status. If capitalism didn't exist today, video games would likely be in a similar state: designed for the elite and then eventually leaking down to everyone else.

  18. #18
    I'm not sure what MTX has to do with WoW's recent development trends. It's to extend subscriptions, not to promote MTX - of which WoW still has very little, and all of which is confined to cosmetics/convenience.

    Sounds to me like what you're really talking about is the influence of corporate interests on gaming - which, fair enough, has become a problem in many areas of gaming, including WoW. But that's not just MTX; if anything, it's the "gaming as a service" mentality of keeping people engaged and paying for the longest possible period of time, even if it means compromising mechanics and/or enjoyment in the process.

    The solution is simple: don't reward predatory models with your purchase. If you keep paying Blizzard it doesn't really matter how much you complain. Money is the only message they'll really get.

  19. #19
    WoW token is a good thing for the game. It makes it so that more people can play, it gives players possibilities. MTX have very little impact on anything in WoW.

    What if blizzard is going the "boost" route with harder things because thats what players want? The average player now are probably way more competetive than we used to be thus blizzard is making stuff harder.

    And for the dev part, the long standing members were possibly the ones that made the game stale. It was a change in Legion, a much needed one. But just think how much games are part of peoples lives these days, the competition is hard, and the new generation might not be that interested in mmos.

    The creative minds of blizzard is to blame, if you want to blame it on someone. To me SL is a huge step from BfA, and 9.1 seems to bring back some of the daily content again to fit between raids and dungeons.

    SL biggest problem is the long 9.0(5). I came back to farm pvp now after two months of wow fatigue. I have been so tired of the game, but I've had great fun the last days.

    Its not always a games' fault. I dont play my favorite games anymore because I am tired of them. It applies to any game. Its the inevatible WoWs doom.
    - Everything that lives is designed to end. We are perpetually trapped in a never ending spiral of life and death. Is this a curse? Or some kind of punishment? I often think about the god who blessed us with this cryptic puzzle… and wonder if we’ll ever get the chance to kill him.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Atharaxie View Post
    You should keep it that way.
    Also, I think MMo champ should split General forum and make a subsection of "Blizzard is doomed, devs are clowns, Activision designs the game around MAU".
    I mean he's kinda right. Doubling the amount of runs required to get the reward that boosters most commonly offer their services for is a bit sus

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