Impact of MTX on WoW Game Design

[Relapses]

Why do they have to "incentivize people to do keys on both sets of affixes"? People obviously are not doing them. Putting new restrictions in the game that force you to do them solves nothing. It makes things worse.

This would only be a valid argument if there was literally nobody playing the game on Tyrannical weeks. This change simply means more people will be looking to push on Tyrannical weeks, too. How is more people playing the game a bad thing?

[Barzotti]

This would only be a valid argument if there was literally nobody playing the game on Tyrannical weeks. This change simply means more people will be looking to push on Tyrannical weeks, too. How is more people playing the game a bad thing?

Because HURR DURR DAE ION BAD ?1?1?1?1?1 ACTIBLIZZ EVIL? MAU????? Did I get the bingo right?

Anyway, what's the big fuss? It will take slightly longer to get an ugly recolor mount, big deal. A mountain out of a mole hill, like always on MMOC.

[Lolites]

Because HURR DURR DAE ION BAD ?1?1?1?1?1 ACTIBLIZZ EVIL? MAU????? Did I get the bingo right?

pretty much, i think nice touch is people claiming its to rake in more MAUs when it can STILL be done in single month...
or how they think twice as much runs needed mean twice as much tokens sold, completely ignoring economics...
then again, if it was required to thinke before posting/commenting this forum would be mostly empty

[Barzotti]

If anything, KSM will be easier to get in S2 since you'll be able to offset lower keys on bad weeks with higher keys on push weeks. The only real downside to the change is for the people who literally just want to push 8 dungeons for KSM and be done with it. Since almost nobody (outside of people who bought runs) is in this position, the change simply benefits those who play and push keys consistently. But it's impossible to even introduce that possibility into the equation when it's clear every decision Blizzard ever makes is to "pad MAUs" and "sell tokens."

I'm literally in this position (every dungeon timed once at +15 for the KSM and zero bought boosts) and I know a few people that did the same. We had no intention of pushing past +15 and just did a weekly +14 afterwards. I think you're underestimating how many people are in my case (but I don't have anything to back up my assumption).

[Clozer]

This would be a valid argument if there was literally nobody playing the game on Tyrannical weeks. This change simply means more people will be looking to push on Tyrannical weeks, too. How is more people playing the game a bad thing?

More people? The same people are forced to do more for the same thing. If anything fewer people are forced to play more.

Blizzard: Here's a pile of shit.
Players: No thank you.

Blizzard: Eat the pile of shit or miss out on all these shiny new points, and without these shiny new points you won't be able to do what you do right now.
You: How is this not a good thing? More people are eating shit!

[Barzotti]

More people? The same people are forced to do more for the same thing. If anything fewer people are forced to play more.

Blizzard: Here's a pile of shit.
Players: No thank you.

Blizzard: Eat the pile of shit or miss out on all these shiny new points, and without these shiny new points you won't be able to do what you do right now.
You: How is this not a good thing? More people are eating shit!

Who is forcing people to do anything in WoW? You don't like, don't do it, plain and simple. Don't blame a company for your lack of self control. What are you missing out if you don't do it? A recolor mount and an achievement? Big fucking deal.

[Relapses]

More people? The same people are forced to do more for the same thing. If anything fewer people are forced to play more.

Blizzard: Here's a pile of shit.
Players: No thank you.

Blizzard: Eat the pile of shit or miss out on all these shiny new points, and without these shiny new points you won't be able to do what you do right now.
You: How is this not a good thing? More people are eating shit!

Your opinion about why people aren't doing Tyrannical keys has no bearing on this discussion. The lack of people doing Tyrannical keys is because of a community perception that it's more difficult and the lack of an incentive to push on these weeks. This change addresses the latter issue elegantly and if we're being totally realistic Tyrannical is only a problem at key levels well above the level at which a vast majority of players are doing keys.

[Clozer]

The lack of people doing Tyrannical keys is because of a community perception that it's more difficult and the lack of an incentive to push on these weeks.

Your opinion about why people aren't doing Tyrannical keys has no bearing on this discussion.

Interesting take.

[rrayy]

Thank you for the only reply that adds anything, I actually want the game to prosper, but when you have to find ways to keep MTX numbers increasing, I actually feel for Ion and the teams who are taking orders from the likes of Kotick.

It also speaks volumes that Ubisoft are splitting their resources to focus on on F2P models, i.e. lazy MTX driven 'experiences.'

All replies have added something. What you want is an echo chamber and don't want to hear opinions that disagree with yours.

[Accendor]

You should keep it that way.
Also, I think MMo champ should split General forum and make a subsection of "Blizzard is doomed, devs are clowns, Activision designs the game around MAU".

I would like to point out that BfA was so bad and disliked that reddit literally did exactly that. Was not even necessary during WoD, but with BfA it apparently became too much.

[Bakis]

BLZ has always been known to release polished stuff. I can understand the freaking long time 9.1 took to release.
But I also feel they just dump things for the sake of it nowdays. Personally I feel its content for the sake of content.

I dont want 100 currencies, a flood of models just with different colors or some minor difference (hi mounts) etc. I would like more raids.
Not saying this is bad for BLZ, its they who choose what sort of players to focus at and for the casual and many new players its a hell of a lot of stuff to do.
But for me, played since TBC launch WoW lost its core which used to be raids and 5mans not a to-do list that reset every Wednesday followed bý downtime cos of lack of raids.

WoW always been a great game and still is just that what it turned into is not for me, retail feels like a Twitter feed of uninteresting content.

[Relapses]

Interesting take.

I'd say it's more interesting than "obviously everybody hates it."

[FelPlague]

I've been quiet on this topic for a little while, and working in a relatively senior position in a large multi-national company I see the short term thinking that polutes the design of products and services being put out to customers. 'Agile' is just make believe to drive piss poor quality to market quicker than a fully developed product.
Now when it comes to gaming I look at examples like Fallout 76, take already developed assets, Fallout 4, and create a short development cycle to deliver a largely MTX driven product, which was shite at launch.
Now to WoW: I look at how the game has evolved since WoD, maybe a little earlier. Existing game mechanics, rep, dailies, have been dragged out to keep MAU high, but the token is the real interesting point, I look at the 9.1 change to KSM, needing two runs of the dungeons, unless you are doing 20+ to balance. It feels to me like more cheap game design driven at doubling the amount runs, boosts, needing to elevate the sales of tokens.
I'm interested in what you guys think, you clearly love the product, as do I, but I feel it just gets worst each time. Thanks Capitalism, short term numbers, thoughts, design and strategy.
Where does this stop or end, or does it not and we just run the game into the floor.
Ion, Brack, all just puppets to Activision. Blizzard's forte was quality above quantity, and that doesn't wash in 2021 - it's just a hollow shell living on the passion of Metzen, Morhaime, and company.
I also have heard that rumours Afrasiabi being sacked due to harassment allegations are true and why he was moved with no fuss, despite his passion for the game.
What do you guys think?

Stuff has not been dragged out since wod, it's literally the same as it has always been, can you give some examples of how "stuff has been dragged out to boost mau since wod"

The changes to ksm have nothing to do with tokens, and simply the fact blizzard does not like that ksm has become a "wait till easy week then complete it" and with this they have even heavily nerfed some.of the harder affixes and harder bosses to help players get ksm, so does that not also counter your point?

"Blizzard used to believe in quality before quantity and 2021 is proof of that" it is actually quite the opposite. They have delayed 9.1 to a massive late date simply so the content would be quality. 2021 is proof they still do that, because if they really did want quantity and not quality they woulda been forced to release is months ago incomplete and fucked in bugs to the limit.

Morhaimes passion? Morhaime was the exact same as Brack, do you forget when morhaime sacked 600 people in 2012, all of them blizzard, and many of them developers? Atleast when Brack sacked people, only 137 of the 800 were from blizzard, and 0 of them developers.

And where the fuck did you get this idea of Alex having gotten harrassment allegations, and also the "fact it's true" my dude. You making up shit? Alex likely left for the same reason he deleted his twitter, and stopped interacting with fans, cause he was a punching bag for the community, and his mental health took a hit for it, just like Chris's did, Chris spoke a fair bit before he left blizzard how the community and pressure put on him wore him down mentally and physically, the community is rabid, especially to those who make the story like they did. Look at Christie golden who now takes the brunt of story harrassment and it's exhausting.

And here you are making up false accusations about him and calling your own made up accusations true? Really?

[Clozer]

I'd say it's more interesting than "obviously everybody hates it."

What happened to this tho?

Your opinion about why people aren't doing Tyrannical keys has no bearing on this discussion.

Anyway, didn't you point out earlier that people wanted tyrannical to be removed? Why do think they want that?

[FelPlague]

Despite them saying themselves the delay is down to COVID, if you have nothing to add, don't waste your time, and mine posting.

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The definition of talking and saying nothing right here.

Lol so you say "what is your opinion" then when people don't agree with them you tell them to fuck off. Yeah I also sure you TOTALLY work a senior role at a multi national company, totally. Btw I'm president of a large country, so your opinion is invalid.

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MTX is the only way they're going to squeeze increasing amounts of revenue out of a game that has been bleeding players for years now.

And yet they have had MTx since even before it was bleeding players.

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I mean he's kinda right. Doubling the amount of runs required to get the reward that boosters most commonly offer their services for is a bit sus

So if they increased the amount of bosses in a raid. Would you also assume that is a ploy to require boosters to pay more? Lets say the next raid has a massive 20 bosses! Instead of being happy and going hey tons of new bosses this is gunna be an awesome raid, your first thought is "wow blizzard doubling the amount of bosses so players have to pay double the wow tokens to get carried through it wtf!?"

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Why do they have to "incentivize people to do keys on both sets of affixes"? People obviously are not doing them. Putting new restrictions in the game that force you to do them solves nothing. It makes things worse.

You arnt forced to do both, you literally could just do one set of you do it high enough level.
Hell technically numbers wise you could get KSM only doing 1 dungeon 1 time. Of course it would need to be like... A level 80 key, so bassiaclly impossible, but it points how the system can be faked. You could do a 20 or 22 or every dungeon in fortified, then you would only need to do 10s in some dungeons on tyrannical, or whatever combination.

actually here ya go, from wowhead, if you wanted to, you could get keystone master right away, simply do a 24 in every dungeon on 1 affix and boom. you could also lower it massivly of course by doing 18's then doing 10's in tyranical.

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I would like to point out that BfA was so bad and disliked that reddit literally did exactly that. Was not even necessary during WoD, but with BfA it apparently became too much.

Cause in wod everyone agreed game bad, but in bfa it was actually polarizing.

[Nerovar]

And yet they have had MTx since even before it was bleeding players.

Yeah, they famously had the exact same amount of MTX in the game during it's peak.


Why would you even post this shit?

[Relapses]

What happened to this tho?



Anyway, didn't you point out earlier that people wanted tyrannical to be removed? Why do think they want that?

The devs aren't removing Tyrannical. They have been on record multiple times that they feel like the unique challenges Fort/Tyr present to groups is integral to the M+ experience. There are ways to address the problems that Tyrannical poses without simply removing it. The change to the way KSM works is one such change.

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Yeah, they famously had the exact same amount of MTX in the game during it's peak.


Why would you even post this shit?

Oh, oh! Is this where we get to pretend that gaming in 2021 is the same as it was from 2005-2010 when WoW was at its peak?! That's my favorite pretend argument!!!

[FelPlague]

Yeah, they famously had the exact same amount of MTX in the game during it's peak.


Why would you even post this shit?

The game actually had more MTX at its peak. As many of those were later removed.

[Clozer]

The devs aren't removing Tyrannical. They have been on record multiple times that they feel like the unique challenges Fort/Tyr present to groups is integral to the M+ experience. There are ways to address the problems that Tyrannical poses without simply removing it. The change to the way KSM works is one such change.

Sorry, I missed the point. Can you explain again what this has to do with people wanting tyrannical to be removed? Especially why people want tyrannical to be removed. I think that got lost in your post.

[Relapses]

The game actually had more MTX at its peak. As many of those were later removed.

Careful, they might figure out that TCG items were microtransactions the whole time.