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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Replacing 90s metalheads fantasy fans with current year pseudo-activist fantasy fans was a mistake. I maintain that the peak of it was removing the word 'bitch' so that kids, who don't play WoW let's face it, can enjoy this wholesome game where the main story revolves around globe-spanning war, genocide and the emptiness of free will in a deterministic universe.
    You didn't even get to the best part in regard to that amazing decision. Because it's not that the game as a whole contains genocide and other darker subjects. You personally test a chemical weapon on primitive Murlocs just minding their own business whooping four quests later. And likely exterminate the local population in the process, judging by the text from the quest giver. Somehow that didn't phase the "team member playing WoW with his kid" (never mind that the age rating for WoW is 13+, which a helicopter parent that is also a dev should have been aware of).
    Last edited by Mehrunes; 2021-06-27 at 09:23 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Overlordd View Post
    "Steve wanted to explore how a dragon chooses their humanoid form with the short story involving Chromie and what it would mean for a male dragon to choose a female form. It is meant to show that the world of Azeroth has love and acceptance and an opportunity for people to see themselves represented in this world."

    Love and acceptance in Azeroth, meanwhile Warcraft originated from Orcs and Humans battling it out with eachother over land and cultural differences.
    What a fucking joke.
    This guy is completely nuts and infected with social virtueing disease.

    (if it infracts, just remove it)

    I thought i was the only one here. It's WARcraft. Not LOVE and PEACEcraft.

    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Replacing 90s metalheads fantasy fans with current year pseudo-activist fantasy fans was a mistake. I maintain that the peak of it was removing the word 'bitch' so that kids, who don't play WoW let's face it, can enjoy this wholesome game where the main story revolves around globe-spanning war, genocide and the emptiness of free will in a deterministic universe.
    I'm overjoyed.
    Finally, somebody that understands me.
    It was a bad decision. Anyone who says it didn't fit Garrosh is out of their mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    "we think the word bitch is just too much for the children's, we want create a place where they can genocide and burn elves alive a safe-word environment"
    Exactly!
    Why is this taboo and the other aspects aren't?

    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    Same... I look at what the Hearthstone people are doing like....
    Hearthstone has always been goofy. WoW hasn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    Personally, I adore Kosak for directly saying that Lei Shen is stronger than Arthas. The fanboys of this Darth Vader parody have finally stopped screaming that Arthas can one shot Archimonde / Deathwing / Old Gods / Sargeras.
    Everyone treats him like the best character and villain written in WoW. I disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    I can't say i'm a fan of any thing Danuser has done since he was put in charge but is "dragons don't care about gender" really something to bitch and moan about?
    I wouldn't say it matters as much as "the world of Azeroth has love and acceptance". It ruins the storyline.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    It is simply meant to be nothing more than a kid's Saturday morning cartoon in game form that's cheesy to the core.
    Ewww. No, thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by LarryFromHumanResources View Post
    I hate Danuser as much as the next guy but this is just a thinly veiled stab at inclusivity and trans narratives unless you want to make the case that literally any wholesome part of WoW should go in favor of death and gore.

    In which case go off king but that is not and has never been World of Warcraft.

    Having a genocidal elf burn a civilisation doesn't mean that you cannot have a story about love and acceptance, that's what makes Warcraft a world, that a mutlitude of different people exist.

    It might not be what you want to see but, well, the game isn't just for edgy 13 year old boys anymore.

    Speaking of 13, the game is LITERALLY rated PG 13. If you want mAtUrE narratives there are other games for that.
    I don't care if a dragon has a male or a female humanoid form. I care that because of it, storylines in the game would end in harmony and understanding. Basically, how BfA ended. Bunch of sworn enemies sharing moments of love and tenderness.

    And, maybe it is time to move on from that mostly young audience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen Death Knight View Post
    I know that WarCraft has had some loose lore over the years with retcons, but to me this is where I draw the line in the sand and say enough is enough. WarCraft was always about escapism with dragons, swords, and cool characters doing epic feats in their fight for survival in a war torn world. When you break this escapism by introducing modern politics into a world that is far from politically correct, then the immersion and magic of escapism are broken.

    If Blizzard wanted this stuff in their games, then they already have Overwatch to do so.
    You took the words out of my mouth. People don't log on an RPG fantasy game to play real-life. They want to escape to a fantasy world that is different from reality. When you do things like that, you blur the lines and ruin the immersion. No one wants to read about real-life in game. That's why the game has a story of its own.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azerate View Post
    Don't care much for lore but I love things like this because they make all the toxic people show their true colors. In a way it's kind of sad but on the plus side all you transphobes will now have to play a game with that one thing you hate in.
    It's not about transphobia. It's the affect on the game that upsets people here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    It's like the whole Dumbledore thing. Nobody cares if Dumbledore is gay (well maybe some people do, but nobody that matters,) but Rowling could have... you know, written that into the stories rather than try and get cool points for it after the fact. In my mind the thing with Pelagos is a better attempt at doing that because, while it might run a bit counterfactual to the lore, at least that was there intent from the start to make them effectively trans.

    In so many words, my concern isn't "don't do it," my concern is "do it better."
    You said it, pal.
    Doing it as an afterthought is just trying to be mainstream. Doing it from the get-go, like Pelagos, or even the Night Warrior couple, is the right way. You can't just change, suddenly, something people are accustomed to, without expecting an uproar.
    By the way, what does Chromie mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mentacyde View Post
    Lmao imagine being transphobic in 2021
    It's not about that. It's about how it is affecting the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    I hate to break it to you. But a world can have both "love and acceptance" and also have "war over land and murder over cultural differences" I mean have you looked fucking outside for 5 seconds?

    Yes he worked one fairy tail book for wow to explore the more wonderful and happy and loving wife of Azeroth, between the countless books about murder and war and genocide.

    Uh oh 1 single book about Azeroth having some nice things, I guess that means wow will never be about war again!

    Nah, that's literally not how it works, look at quests. We have tons of quests were we just help out an old lady make a pie for her grandson, a lost girl find her parents. A man looking for his lost book, ok rather take things cause guess what, a world of war is not 100% war with every single person being a soldier thinking about how to murder every second. Sometimes they sit down and tell stories.
    There's nothing wrong with that. But, when it causes sworn enemies to drop their swords for some hugs and kissies, that's where it's getting annoying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    You want an example, ok, Check out Mists of pandaria and Battle for azeroth. Characters interactions, reasons for war and etc. Bfa is straight up a worse version of cata-mop events.

    If you can't see the fundamental changes of how they handled it the story, and how things went worse, and claim tis just feelings, there is not much i can do, i give one of the best examples i can remember atm.
    Even the endings were different. While Jaina suggested dismantling the Horde and Varian threatened them that he would end them, now Jaina is talking about peace and Anduin about love.

    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Wait where did sylvanas call Arthas son of a bitch? I was pretty sure the garrosh line was the only actual swear in the entire game.
    Warcraft 3. When Blizzard didn't shy from using foul language.

    Nah don't you know, if they make a single book exploring the good sides of Azeroth, instantly it's a kids game.
    No. The dialogues in game is what makes it so.

    No you are wrong, don't you know, entire world must be dark endless genocide and slaughter, or it is happy lovey my little pony land! THERE IS NO INBETWEEN!!!!
    There's good writing and then there's WoW writing. If you're not cringing at hearing the characters delivering their lines, then i don't know how you judge something to be good.

    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    the culling of stratholme for example is a massive political point.
    Real-life politics, not game's ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    to make more money and please the LGBT community.
    Basically, the whole Spongebob controversy last year.
    The gif that would describe it the best is:


    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    speaking you call them transvestites and gays over and over proves you literally don't know what the fuck you are talking about.
    also people are literally saying this this thread "i dont want politics in my game, so trans people and gay people should not be in the game" that is literally transphobia and homophobia my dude, if you are really gunna say 'I DONT SEE ANY COMMENT HERE" maybe actually read the thread?
    You don't really know how companies work, do you?
    If they were that progressive from the start, they would have had trans and gay characters from the very beginning, years ago.
    But, they did it only now. You wanna know why? because they want to capitalize on the money and publicity it would give them.
    Last edited by username993720; 2021-06-27 at 09:29 PM.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    I feel like using a dragon that pretends to be a female gnome using temporary magic as a good "trans" character will backfire.
    What are you saying, it's perfect. "See, kids? That Dragon chose to be in a different body! So whenever someone says that they feel like they are born in a different one, remember, that's a choice they made!".

    Just messing around. It's a positive message in a book not a single person is ever going to find in a store, let alone read. Let's shit on Danuser for making Shadowlands lore into a weird mix of Final Fantasy and Warcraft nostalgia baits.

  4. #84
    Titan Orby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    Dude, I'm literally gay... And I meant not only this thread, but the MMO as a whole. And yes, I still only see hatred for Danuser and retcon, not transgenders.

    This is why I hate this. Blizzard uses the LGBT community not out of sincerity, not out of tolerance, but simply so that sick warriors for social justice do not scream that Blizzard is homophobic and transophobic.
    As a bi guy myself, I tend to roll my eyes whenever a big multi billion dollar company drags out the pride colours and tries to tell us they stand with us, then when the month is over they rip it down and go on their merry way. While also supporting and doing things that go against the LGBTQ community in general. Its slimly and dirt and is just there for good PR at the end of the day, I think we all know that.

    Jim Sterling did a great video on this last year.


  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    I feel like using a dragon that pretends to be a female gnome using temporary magic as a good "trans" character will backfire.
    Why would that be bad trans representation tho? She's just using the abilities available to her to present as she wants. Even if its just an illusion, how is that any different than how trans people have presented historically. It's only recently that we've had the technology to actually change how we look anatomically. In the past, the best they could do is to wear certain clothes as well as binders and packers to create the illusion of being their ideal gender. And when you look at it that way, I think Chromie is great trans representation.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post



    Everyone treats him like the best character and villain written in WoW. I disagree.


    Who's everyone? I mean, Sylvanas fans claim that most of the players will leave Wow if she dies and look at the result of my poll.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...s-and-her-fans

    I also don't understand why you said that at all. If he's such a cool character, he doesn't have to be the strongest. Kosak's words about Arthas being weaker than Lei Shen saved us from making ridiculous claims about Arthas' power. His fanboys constantly tried to prove that he is at least stronger than Deathwing and at most a stronger being in the universe.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Overlordd View Post
    "Steve wanted to explore how a dragon chooses their humanoid form with the short story involving Chromie and what it would mean for a male dragon to choose a female form. It is meant to show that the world of Azeroth has love and acceptance and an opportunity for people to see themselves represented in this world."

    Love and acceptance in Azeroth, meanwhile Warcraft originated from Orcs and Humans battling it out with eachother over land and cultural differences.
    What a fucking joke.
    This guy is completely nuts and infected with social virtueing disease.
    Seems like you are afraid to grow as a human being. There is nothing wrong with what he wanted to do. Him doing actually writing it would be a problem since he's bottom tier IMO. But the concept is fine.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    Who's everyone? I mean, Sylvanas fans claim that most of the players will leave Wow if she dies and look at the result of my poll.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...s-and-her-fans

    I also don't understand why you said that at all. If he's such a cool character, he doesn't have to be the strongest. Kosak's words about Arthas being weaker than Lei Shen saved us from making ridiculous claims about Arthas' power. His fanboys constantly tried to prove that he is at least stronger than Deathwing and at most a stronger being in the universe.
    Neither Sylvanas is.
    I'm team Garrosh

    And, it would be silly to compare him with others 10x his size.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    They changed the dialogue so that garrosh doesn't call her a bitch anymore. So -1
    I love the excuse he made up for it.

    "U-uh.. some dev was playing with his kid and the dev felt weirded out by having their kid see a genocidal banshee woman who uses chemical weaponry be called a no-no word!!!"

    1. If a kid is too young to hear 'bitch,' they're too young to play WoW. That dev wasn't following the rating of their own game.
    2. Sure, Danuser. It's not because it's your waifu or anything. You were just thinking of the children, which is exactly why all you did was go back to selectively remove two cases of Sylvanas specifically being called a bitch and nothing else.

  10. #90
    Herald of the Titans Clone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Replacing 90s metalheads fantasy fans with current year pseudo-activist fantasy fans was a mistake. I maintain that the peak of it was removing the word 'bitch' so that kids, who don't play WoW let's face it, can enjoy this wholesome game where the main story revolves around globe-spanning war, genocide and the emptiness of free will in a deterministic universe.
    You mean like how Metzen covered up Sylvanas for his daughter?

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    As for social messaging, personally I don't particularly care about the gnome herself, mostly because she totally fails as an analogy to what she's meant to demonstrate, since she can switch back and forth seamlessly at will. If you want a case where pond-deep social signalling actually damages the themes of the story being told Pelagos stands out. The entire gist of the Kyrian is that they involve shedding all mortal attachments and hangups to become what are essentially template forms. Making them able to decide what their sex is on the basis of the unresolved issues a mortal soul brought with them runs counter to that because it explicitly places value on mortality in that one extremely specific situation while dismissing in all other cases.
    Kyrian even having different sexes is suspect to begin with. However, through the process of elimination, I deducted that the cheese produced in Bastion must be produced from Kyrian milk.


    Quote Originally Posted by Clone View Post
    You mean like how Metzen covered up Sylvanas for his daughter?
    What makes it even better is that he tried to justify it with how it made sense because why wouldn't she wear armor, when according to lore her body is virtually invulnerable under normal circumstances, to the point she'd be fine even when falling from the top of the super tall Icecrown Citadel. So either that tiny bit of leather is somehow even more durable, or Metzen didn't know his own story (again).
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    1. If a kid is too young to hear 'bitch,' they're too young to play WoW. That dev wasn't following the rating of their own game.
    Why aren't they implementing a filter for these kinds of things? Why do they have to ruin everyone else's experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Clone View Post
    You mean like how Metzen covered up Sylvanas for his daughter?
    I always thought it was part of a general trend of de-objectifying women.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Why aren't they implementing a filter for these kinds of things? Why do they have to ruin everyone else's experience?



    I always thought it was part of a general trend of de-objectifying women.
    Because it's an amazingly seethrough bullshit excuse and the real reason is he was mad that somebody insulted his waifu.

  14. #94
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Why aren't they implementing a filter for these kinds of things? Why do they have to ruin everyone else's experience?
    Because that was a blatantly lie, he just did because he could not stand his waifu being called bitch

    I always thought it was part of a general trend of de-objectifying women.
    It prob was and he just use that as excuse.

  15. #95
    This is a textbook example of virtue signaling. Blizzard doesn't ACTUALLY care. They're just losing lots of subs so they need to pretend to be woke to try and get Twitter users to play the game.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    she does not pretend, she IS.
    and its not temporary, they choose that form and they stick with it.

    imagine saying this stuff to a real trans person, how about ya stop?
    I think that's where you just read way too into those dragons seemingly having to stick with a single form.

    There are a plethora of examples where Dragons assume multiple forms or have a form that frankly did not exist when they were already a grown dragon.

    Personally, i think this whole "sticking to one Mortal form" is more of a guideline within dragon society, sure, you can change, most dragons choose not to, but i think it's complete asinine to believe this may be somehow out of their power.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    This is a textbook example of virtue signaling. Blizzard doesn't ACTUALLY care. They're just losing lots of subs so they need to pretend to be woke to try and get Twitter users to play the game.
    Eh, kinda difficult, the lore team seems like a bunch that really digs this stuff, the overarching corporation however doesn't give the slightest fuck unless it somehow diminishes their profit.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2021-06-27 at 09:51 PM.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Kyrian even having different sexes is suspect to begin with. However, through the process of elimination, I deducted that the cheese produced in Bastion must be produced from Kyrian milk.
    The Kyrian should be androgynous, honestly. Proper sexless angels.

    @Clone

    Same origin. I'm hardly some crusader on defending Metzen from his fuck-ups. Hell, I think I actually have among the least negative opinions of Danuser on this thread.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  18. #98
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    X was causing climate change in the past, now we have X, Y and Z causing it too, it is worse now than in the past.
    Yes but all of the things you listed have been ongoing since arguable WC3 there is no Y or Z that now puts it into being worse.



    You want an example, ok
    , No. A singular or even multiple examples are worthless and people remember different things based on how they feel about them and could forget a ton of smaller cases because they feel no way towards them. The only way to make it into objective fact and out of the Realm of feelings would be to have an extensive list of every example ever and to have them be time stamped so you could get an objective measure of how frequent it has been and how that frequency has changed.

    any thing less then that is going off of your feelings.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Orby View Post
    As a bi guy myself, I tend to roll my eyes whenever a big multi billion dollar company drags out the pride colours and tries to tell us they stand with us, then when the month is over they rip it down and go on their merry way. While also supporting and doing things that go against the LGBTQ community in general. Its slimly and dirt and is just there for good PR at the end of the day, I think we all know that.
    I'm really disappointed with Blizzard. Buying into the whole "Pride is gay-Christmas, let's sell them shit" without solid LGBTQ representation in one of their main titles is just icky. At the very least having a same-sex couple front and centre for an expansion would send a clear message that homophobes can fuck off so they're not trying to have their cake and eat it.

  20. #100
    The Lightbringer Maljinwo's Avatar
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    Who cares if a character is trans

    That dragon chose a GNOME
    Thats the real tragedy
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

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