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  1. #1

    Warcraft 3 undead campaign is just Jailor's assets fighting against eachother

    So Nerzhul at that time was an asset to the Jailor, right?
    And he also considered Arthas his asset.
    But the Dreadlords were also an asset to Denathrius, who was an asset to the jailor.
    But they tried to stop Arthas from reaching the Lich King's helm.

    So the jailor's asset were fighting against eachother.
    Actually the whole campaign is about the Jailor's assets infighting.

    Is that correct?

  2. #2
    Pit Lord
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    its really best not to even consider any lore that has happened outside the current expansion or your head might explode

  3. #3
    Sort of but Ner'zhul wasn't doing what the Jailer wanted and was acting with too much free will. The Dreadlords were there to gaurd and control him so he used Arthas to kill them off. The Dreadlords didn't want the Lich King to have a body because it was easier to control him. Arthas was more of a pawn to Ner'zhul untill they merged and he took control. Then he still didn't do what the Jailer wanted and kept the scourge back and was planning to just take over the planet with us heros as his commanders. Bolvar took over and just strait up Ignored Zoval and put all the scourge to sleep until the Legion showed up.
    Last edited by Felrane; 2021-06-28 at 01:39 AM.

  4. #4
    In WC3 you also have Varimathras being afraid to die and begged Sylvanas to join her, yet in Legion we find out that demons return to the Twisting Nether after dying like his brothers did. So why would Varimathras have been that afraid then? Better not to think about such things and pretend that each game and expansion is just in an universe of its own. I also have to forget that the latest seasons of Game of Thrones happened for me to enjoy the older seasons. As far as I'm aware the show died with Tywin Lannister.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by McNeil View Post
    In WC3 you also have Varimathras being afraid to die and begged Sylvanas to join her, yet in Legion we find out that demons return to the Twisting Nether after dying like his brothers did. So why would Varimathras have been that afraid then? Better not to think about such things and pretend that each game and expansion is just in an universe of its own. I also have to forget that the latest seasons of Game of Thrones happened for me to enjoy the older seasons. As far as I'm aware the show died with Tywin Lannister.
    Wouldn't it just make the whole "pleading" an act? Its not that weird IMHO and its quite in character for any Dreadlord.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Felrane View Post
    Sort of but Ner'zhul wasn't doing what the Jailer wanted and was acting with too much free will. The Dreadlords were there to gaurd and control him so he used Arthas to kill them off they didn't want the Lich King to have a body because it was easier to control him. Arthas was more of a pawn to Ner'zhul untill they merged and he took control. Then he still didn't do what the Jailer wanted and kept the scourge back and was planning to just take over the planet with us heros as his commanders. Bolvar took over and just strait up Ignored Zoval and put all the scourge to sleep until the Legion showed up.
    but the Jailor did not know about Ner'zhuls defiance until after the Frozen Throne happened and beginning of WotLK?
    Also isn't it odd that the whole plan was simply made upon Kil'Jaeden picking Ner'zhul for the helm of domination? What if he picked someone else for that job?

    It just seems odd and wanky to me.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by ZazuuPriest View Post
    its really best not to even consider any lore that has happened outside the current expansion or your head might explode
    exactly this.

    shitty writing is shitty writing. Blizzards (and Metzens) days are over since many many years. Better not think about lore after MoP. in my head i differ 2 types of lore: the original one and everything that starts with/after MoP.

    story and lore in wow is dead anyways when you look at all that shit story they telling. the good writers and the creators of the original and good lore are long gone.

    so, as the quoted poster advised: best method is, to not think about it.

  8. #8
    WCIII is almost entirely unreconcilable with SL even if you give blizzard the biggest benefit of the doubt imaginable.

    If archimonde hadn't been a complete tool and just went around to all the places on azeroth we know can sustain permanent nether portals and just summoned the legion until the mortals couldn't possibly have won, the jailer's assets would have just been unironically helping the legion secure total victory with every act they did in WCIII.
    Tonight for me is a special day. I want to go outside of the house of the girl I like with a gasoline barrel and write her name on the road and set it on fire and tell her to get out too see it (is this illegal)?

  9. #9
    Why are people finding this so hard to grasp?

    The Dreadlords are infiltrators.
    They didn't "fight" Arthas and whatnot because they wanted to win.
    They had the whole Burning Legion and Kil'jaeden to play with.

    Look at the book of inflitration or what it's called.
    It perfectly explains that the Dreadlords are willing to go as far as possible to "prove" their loyalty.
    While temporarily this MIGHT mean that they have to help their enemies they have long-term goals.

    This is the whole point of this.
    It's not even a retcon. Things happened exactly the same in the past.
    Just now we have an additional layer as to why or how.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by McNeil View Post
    In WC3 you also have Varimathras being afraid to die and begged Sylvanas to join her, yet in Legion we find out that demons return to the Twisting Nether after dying like his brothers did. So why would Varimathras have been that afraid then?
    because clearly this isnt very pleasant process for them, we can also see what happened to him after he failed so many times
    he was broken, immortal demon yet broken and tortured for eternity


    Quote Originally Posted by Garymorilix View Post
    Why are people finding this so hard to grasp?

    The Dreadlords are infiltrators.
    They didn't "fight" Arthas and whatnot because they wanted to win.
    They had the whole Burning Legion and Kil'jaeden to play with.

    Look at the book of inflitration or what it's called.
    It perfectly explains that the Dreadlords are willing to go as far as possible to "prove" their loyalty.
    While temporarily this MIGHT mean that they have to help their enemies they have long-term goals.

    This is the whole point of this.
    It's not even a retcon. Things happened exactly the same in the past.
    Just now we have an additional layer as to why or how.

    This.

  11. #11
    "It's just expanding the lore"

    Right, so what was step two of the jailer's galaxybrain 5head plan if archimonde wasn't a massive fuckup? Just give up because he had handed the legion complete strategic victory?
    Tonight for me is a special day. I want to go outside of the house of the girl I like with a gasoline barrel and write her name on the road and set it on fire and tell her to get out too see it (is this illegal)?

  12. #12
    No cause that lore was written 17 years ago by Metzen and I refuse to associate it with anything that's currently happening.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Niwes View Post
    exactly this.

    shitty writing is shitty writing. Blizzards (and Metzens) days are over since many many years. Better not think about lore after MoP. in my head i differ 2 types of lore: the original one and everything that starts with/after MoP.

    story and lore in wow is dead anyways when you look at all that shit story they telling. the good writers and the creators of the original and good lore are long gone.

    so, as the quoted poster advised: best method is, to not think about it.
    This expansion just feels like something that comes about when you've run out of ideas. I mean the afterlife is the ultimate end is it not? The stakes can't get higher than saving the resting place of everyone when they die can it?

    Not to mention the lore breaking things like dying in the afterlife. Dreadlords somehow infiltrating and stealing things. It's just ludicrous.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Garymorilix View Post
    Why are people finding this so hard to grasp?
    Because it's stupid and awful.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    Because it's stupid and awful.
    Just because you refuse to accept any expansion of a 20 year old story does not mean that it is "stupid or awful".

    In fact, I think it's pretty clever how they can still return to old lore (that was not fleshed out at all BTW) and make it interesting in hindsight.
    Also, I guess I am right by the mere fact that this exists now.
    So good day mate, keep complaining, it gets you to places I hope.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    "It's just expanding the lore"

    Right, so what was step two of the jailer's galaxybrain 5head plan if archimonde wasn't a massive fuckup? Just give up because he had handed the legion complete strategic victory?
    This mindset can literally can be applied to anything ever in real life history as well.

    "So what was the galaxybrain plan if D-day didn't work out?"
    Who the fuck knows?
    A new plan eventually most likely? That's too hard to grasp?

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Garymorilix View Post
    Just because you refuse to accept any expansion of a 20 year old story does not mean that it is "stupid or awful".

    In fact, I think it's pretty clever how they can still return to old lore (that was not fleshed out at all BTW) and make it interesting in hindsight.
    Also, I guess I am right by the mere fact that this exists now.
    So good day mate, keep complaining, it gets you to places I hope.
    So according to you, retcons don't exist? Nice.

    Fleshed out lmao. So the Dreadlords going from "intelligent agents of the Burning Legion" to "intelligent agents of the Jailer" is fleshing them out?

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    So according to you, retcons don't exist? Nice.

    Fleshed out lmao. So the Dreadlords going from "intelligent agents of the Burning Legion" to "intelligent agents of the Jailer" is fleshing them out?
    What retcons, my child?

    Nothing was retconned. It was expanded.

    The Dreadlords still were intelligent agents of the Burning Legion, were they not?
    The two are not mutually exclusive. They helped the Burning Legion as long as they had to. "Inflitrated" them if you will.

    And yes, being a generic "commander" for a generic evil army force (as that was the BL was in WC3 back then) VS being inter-dimensional agents of the force of Death that infiltrate other cosmic forces to further the goals of their own is way more interesting. Also, they have an actual origin story now.
    Especially since they already helped us take down the Burning Legion.

    But let's keep complaining.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by korijenkins View Post
    This expansion just feels like something that comes about when you've run out of ideas. I mean the afterlife is the ultimate end is it not? The stakes can't get higher than saving the resting place of everyone when they die can it?

    Not to mention the lore breaking things like dying in the afterlife. Dreadlords somehow infiltrating and stealing things. It's just ludicrous.
    why they choosed „afterlife theme“ ?
    because they already burned „timewalking theme“ in WoD!
    now you can calculate since how long they are out of ideas.

    why not creating something new ?
    because thats not cheap!
    that needs investment!
    thats not „milk the cow“!

    thats the simple truth.

    but hey, as long as we pay them…

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Garymorilix View Post
    "So what was the galaxybrain plan if D-day didn't work out?"
    Who the fuck knows?
    A new plan eventually most likely? That's too hard to grasp?
    1. Calm down Steve, SL sold fine your job's secure.
    2. Either you don't understand how close the legion came to achieving their ultimate stated goal explicitly through instruments we now know are loyal to the jailer, you don't understand how lethal a legion victory is to the jailers plan or you don't understand how unrelated to the jailer's assets the legion's defeat was.
    Yes, deep-cover spies do things potentially against their actual master in order to embed themselves. They don't aid the people they're supposed to be spying on to the point their true master can no longer succeed.
    Tonight for me is a special day. I want to go outside of the house of the girl I like with a gasoline barrel and write her name on the road and set it on fire and tell her to get out too see it (is this illegal)?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by McNeil View Post
    In WC3 you also have Varimathras being afraid to die and begged Sylvanas to join her, yet in Legion we find out that demons return to the Twisting Nether after dying like his brothers did. So why would Varimathras have been that afraid then? Better not to think about such things and pretend that each game and expansion is just in an universe of its own. I also have to forget that the latest seasons of Game of Thrones happened for me to enjoy the older seasons. As far as I'm aware the show died with Tywin Lannister.
    Demons returning to the twisted nether upon death wasn't new information in Legion, if i remember correctly.

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