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  1. #81
    I am Murloc! Chonar's Avatar
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    All of these "inconsistencies" have been explained. It is up to you whether you've actually read them - in quest text, novels, or other sources.
    McNeil's example of Varimathras for example-- it was an act, to make his placement at her side more believable.
    The Fel is terribly powerful on its own, it is not yet clear wheter it can truly, fully, corrupt a Dreadlord (leading to an alignment switch from Death to Disorder). This has been purposefully kept vague of course, to be decided by blizzard when the question becomes relevant enough for the plot.

    I'd also recommend you take that last sentence and apply it to a lot of things you think are inconsistencies, but are instead just open threads that Blizzard has left open purposefully, to pick up whenever they wanna tell something cool for the plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Magical Mudcrab View Post
    Welcome to virtually every other fantasy universe where death is explored.
    Indeed. Repeatedly it has been stated that a death in the Shadowlands is Oblivion. Non-existence. A removal of your everything, from everything.
    But smoothbrains can't comprehend words longer than 2 syllables so of course it's "uhhh death is DEATH but death in DEATH is DEATHh?!"
    Looking marvelous in velvet.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    And all of that was still better than bfa-shadowlands
    Nah clearly not. Bfa and shadowland are anedoctical.
    Bfa was just "war is bad, alliance and horde should not be at war". So pretty much the same thing since the start of wow. The shared capitals started with TBC.
    Shadowland is the answer to the retarded wotlk "the flying dutchman must always have a capt... wait no. The scourge must always have a lich king." - what do we do with that level of stupid ? And it's an other realm we don't care about.

    Tbc wasted great characters and fucked up the universe so much that pretty much all stupid lore expansions came from it. Like wod or like why don't the draeney use their interstellar spaceship with laser beam to win bfa in two minutes?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    Are you really that fragile to the point you take changes in lore as a personal insult? Are you really that offended the lore doesn't go the way you want it to that you see insulting devs as a valid option?
    Being pissed at retarded ideas is not being fragile. It's more like "I have a sense of taste, so don't give me shit to eat else I'll tell you to fuck off."
    Sorry if it hurts your feelings.
    And saying blizzard writers are retarded is more a fact or an excuse than an insult.
    Last edited by Tarba; 2021-06-28 at 07:52 AM.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Chonar View Post
    All of these "inconsistencies" have been explained. It is up to you whether you've actually read them - in quest text, novels, or other sources.
    McNeil's example of Varimathras for example-- it was an act, to make his placement at her side more believable.
    The Fel is terribly powerful on its own, it is not yet clear wheter it can truly, fully, corrupt a Dreadlord (leading to an alignment switch from Death to Disorder). This has been purposefully kept vague of course, to be decided by blizzard when the question becomes relevant enough for the plot.

    I'd also recommend you take that last sentence and apply it to a lot of things you think are inconsistencies, but are instead just open threads that Blizzard has left open purposefully, to pick up whenever they wanna tell something cool for the plot



    Indeed. Repeatedly it has been stated that a death in the Shadowlands is Oblivion. Non-existence. A removal of your everything, from everything.
    But smoothbrains can't comprehend words longer than 2 syllables so of course it's "uhhh death is DEATH but death in DEATH is DEATHh?!"
    You can somewhat reconcile the dreadlords active in Lordaeron being agents with the Jailer with WC3 considering they flat out said that even if the Legion is thwarted they're the Nathrezim and will still succeed. For that to be the case though Ner'zhul would have to be his own man - well enough, seeing as how Ner'zhul is described as going away from the Jailer's plans in the new raid. Where you hit the biggest snag of all is in the most recent retcon where Kel'thuzad was apparently working for the Jailer all along, this despite Kel'thuzad warning Arthas about the dreadlords (also agents of the Jailer) and being telepathatically tied to Ner'zhul who would know that Kel'thuzad is disloyal. Notwithstanding how much blander Kel'thuzad becomes that retcon by itself unravels the previous plotline.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarba View Post
    Being pissed at retarded ideas is not being fragile. It's more like "I have a sense of taste, so don't give me shit to eat else I'll tell you to fuck off."
    Sorry if it hurts your feelings.
    And saying blizzard writers are retarded is more a fact or an excuse than an insult.
    Ironically you managed to further prove my point multiple times in your reply. I really have nothing else to say but to point that out, good night.
    Goodbye-Forever-MMO-Champ
    Still here and still posting
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    Alleria's whispers start climaxing

  5. #85
    Like people said..best to ignore it. I'd go further though, and say it's best to ignore all WoW additions to the lore. Yes, ALL.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    You can somewhat reconcile the dreadlords active in Lordaeron being agents with the Jailer with WC3 considering they flat out said that even if the Legion is thwarted they're the Nathrezim and will still succeed. For that to be the case though Ner'zhul would have to be his own man - well enough, seeing as how Ner'zhul is described as going away from the Jailer's plans in the new raid. Where you hit the biggest snag of all is in the most recent retcon where Kel'thuzad was apparently working for the Jailer all along, this despite Kel'thuzad warning Arthas about the dreadlords (also agents of the Jailer) and being telepathatically tied to Ner'zhul who would know that Kel'thuzad is disloyal. Notwithstanding how much blander Kel'thuzad becomes that retcon by itself unravels the previous plotline.
    Was KT always serving the Jailer knowingly? I just assumed he followed the chain of command once Arthas died, and went seeking Death's true master.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormbreed View Post
    Mexico is already part of the USA so is Canada
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    Shadow deserves nothing, the same as Fire Mages.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    Was KT always serving the Jailer knowingly? I just assumed he followed the chain of command once Arthas died, and went seeking Death's true master.
    That would be how someone with sense would do it but this is the writing staff we're talking about so they have him exposit how he was 'always' working for the Blue Man.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Chonar View Post
    Indeed. Repeatedly it has been stated that a death in the Shadowlands is Oblivion. Non-existence. A removal of your everything, from everything.
    But smoothbrains can't comprehend words longer than 2 syllables so of course it's "uhhh death is DEATH but death in DEATH is DEATHh?!"
    what's the point of shadowlands then? what is the purpose of it other than bringing some useless lore?
    why in warcraft universe death in a mortal realm shouldn't be just an oblivion?

  9. #89
    What did Jailer do about the Lich King when he realized he resisted his will? Why didn't he send the dreadlords to work on putting the Lich King under his command?

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    Ironically you managed to further prove my point multiple times in your reply. I really have nothing else to say but to point that out, good night.
    Are you really that fragile that insulting someone you dont even know personaly makes you pissed off?

  11. #91
    No. Because Ner'zhul was against the Jailer at the time. The assets themselves were inspired and built from the Shadowlands, sure. But they themselves aren't Zovaal's assets.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Overlordd View Post
    So Nerzhul at that time was an asset to the Jailor, right?
    And he also considered Arthas his asset.
    But the Dreadlords were also an asset to Denathrius, who was an asset to the jailor.
    But they tried to stop Arthas from reaching the Lich King's helm.

    So the jailor's asset were fighting against eachother.
    Actually the whole campaign is about the Jailor's assets infighting.

    Is that correct?
    Not really. Ner'zhul just screwed the legion yet again after they trapped his spirit in the helm and he just lured Arthas in. When the legion discovered this, they sent Illidan.

    But yeah, going into details will reveal many other things that may not make any sense.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by niilokin View Post
    What did Jailer do about the Lich King when he realized he resisted his will? Why didn't he send the dreadlords to work on putting the Lich King under his command?
    They did...

    Hell, once the Jailer realized Ner'zhul's shit and tried/failed multiple times to get him back into shape, he essentially wanted the Dreadlords to fuck over the Lich King. I'd even argue the Legion would do exactly that also, hence another reason why Zovaal wanted them so bad during the third war. Sargeras and Kil'jaeden were among the perfect pawns.

  14. #94
    Stood in the Fire BrintoSFJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overlordd View Post
    So Nerzhul at that time was an asset to the Jailor, right?
    And he also considered Arthas his asset.
    But the Dreadlords were also an asset to Denathrius, who was an asset to the jailor.
    But they tried to stop Arthas from reaching the Lich King's helm.

    So the jailor's asset were fighting against eachother.
    Actually the whole campaign is about the Jailor's assets infighting.

    Is that correct?
    It is selection through elimination. Jailer was using the Dreadlords to create infighting among the different cosmic powers. At the same time, he also caused infighting among his assets in Azeroth through the clever machination of the Dreadlords to see who fits the role more perfectly. Finally, he found Arthas who in turn would present him with the best pawn of all: Sylvanas.
    Warcraft 3 Reign of Chaos was the game that brought me into gaming. I was 17 years old then, I abhorred gaming before this game. From then on, I became a fan of Warcraft and Blizzard. To see it all go down the drain like this is truly sad for me. No king rules forever but at least some of them went down in history as real badasses. I hoped Blizzard and Warcraft would be one of them but it is no longer possible.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Garymorilix View Post
    What retcon? That the Dreadlords made Sargeras turn? Did they not?
    In the original lore it was the eredar that corrupted Sargeras.

    OT

    WoW lore is a mess always has been, though it has reached bay movie levels at this point.
    Last edited by Combatbulter; 2021-06-28 at 09:09 AM.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Are you really that fragile that insulting someone you dont even know personaly makes you pissed off?
    Don't insult anyone personally to begin with. This is a lore discussion forum, not your personal packing ground.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    In the original lore it was the eredar that corrupted Sargeras.
    During a WC2 manual, sure...

    WC3 and Classic changed that shit instantly.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by TheFirstOnes View Post
    During a WC2 manual, sure...

    WC3 and Classic changed that shit instantly.
    Which makes it a retcon, like the entire eredar species and the garbage that is the new draenei

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by niilokin View Post
    What did Jailer do about the Lich King when he realized he resisted his will? Why didn't he send the dreadlords to work on putting the Lich King under his command?
    If you want the real answer then obviously it's because they hadn't thought of him yet. But if you want an in-story explanation, it doesn't look like the Jailer can actually just phone the living world. He can contact other spirits sure, like he did Mueh'zala, but past that point he was only able to reach Sylvanas by way of calling her separately. It's more likely that the Dreadlords report to Denathrius rather than to him given that in 9.0 the Jailer ditches him as a lost cause and in 9.1 they save him. Couple that with the Legion still being powerful and active and there's not really much the Blue Man can do except twiddle his thumbs.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  19. #99
    just ignore every lore after wc3 and you're good

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by TheFirstOnes View Post
    They did...

    Hell, once the Jailer realized Ner'zhul's shit and tried/failed multiple times to get him back into shape, he essentially wanted the Dreadlords to fuck over the Lich King. I'd even argue the Legion would do exactly that also, hence another reason why Zovaal wanted them so bad during the third war. Sargeras and Kil'jaeden were among the perfect pawns.
    Plenty of dreadlords fell under Lich King's influence and fought for the Scourge, even after KJ told them to destroy the LK. Only the top Legion dreadlords sought to destroy him in the name of Legion. But after Arthas merged with Ner'zhul, what happened to the scourge dreadlords? Balnazzar and Mal'ganis dicked around with Scarlet Crusade/Onslaught, some dreadlords became just rogue Burning Legion agents on Azeroth etc... Varimathras is also a weird one, him serving Sylvanas would have made sense to serve Jailer too, but he actually served Sargeras in the end? Does it make any sense if the dreadlords ultimately serve only Denathrius as stated in SL?

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