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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    The only part of legion that wasn’t treated like the worse thing ever was the order hall storylines and the mage tower.
    Depends on which class you played though.

  2. #102
    Reality: It wasn't better. Much like every single expansion, people got their rose-tinted goggles on while hating the current expansion. Legion started a number of systems that people absolutely hate now.

  3. #103
    Stood in the Fire
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    class design, artifacts (skill tree, collecting appearances etc.), tier sets

  4. #104
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TidalConflux View Post
    Depends on which class you played though.
    That's true even those weren't universal I remember the hunter storyline getting called shit, which it kinda was. and alot of the harder mage towers got alot of complaints.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    You are lying to yourself if you think, even with unpruned skills, that your character at ANY POINT in WoW history could stand up to your character in Legion. The power you had in legion was just beyond anything else in WoW history. I could play my veng DH of legion, and effortlessly solo a 40 man raid team of that exact character 1-2 expansions later. That is just horrific game design my dude, horrific.

    You shouldn't ever have to look back at your character from 2 expacs back and /tremble in fear of him. My veng DH of legion would cut through a 40 man raid team of the same character from BFA/SL like Sauron in the opener to LOTR. I doubt i'd even lose 1% health before i wiped them.

    You should never, and i repeat NEVER, take power away from a player once given. It reeks of creative bankruptcy
    MoP. Still frankly the pinnacle of character power. Your DH tank would not stand a chance against anything in MoP. It was the time where tanks were most OP (to the point where a lvl 80 paladin could solo lvl 90 raids, try that on your DH), where trinkets were OP, snapshotting... The class kits we got in Legion were measily compared to MoP.

  6. #106
    Stealthed Defender unbound's Avatar
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    - Professions had more work put into them (all had storylines...fishing legendary)
    - 11 dungeons in lieu of the usual 5 to 8 previously offered

  7. #107
    Having the same dish the third time in a row, with less taste and innovation and just slightly warmed up doesn't feed anyone. Well, it does, but it doesn't taste good. It satisfies your basic hunger, but nothing else. And that's exactly the problem of BfA and Shadowlands.

    It's more WoW, but it's not good or even great WoW like Legion, TBC etc.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  8. #108
    I don't really think Legion is that much better than BFA (too early to put SL in the mix) but I did enjoy it slightly more overall. But as with all things there's a lot of things that were bad in Legion that people forget or put a blind eye to, and focus on the good. Legendaries at the start of Legion were worse than legendaries in SL - the hidden cap, the RNG aspect of it and the fact if you didn't get the one you wanted you were pretty screwed, whereas SL has some grinding in Torghast required but you're not wasting your time knowing you won't get what you want. Artifact Power was arguably a lot more frustrating than the AP of BFA or SL and the meme of spamming Maw of Souls on repeat was a big frustration at the time.

    Legion still had a lot of great stuff but it wasn't all a dance on roses.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Rose tinted googles.

    When legion was current it got endless flak just like every other current expan.
    this legion started the rise of borrowed power and in my opinion the downfall of wows enjoyment. WoD > legion to me. (unpopular opinion I know)
    Member: Shadow Lands Alpha Club, Member since 4/9/2020

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by cuafpr View Post
    this legion started the rise of borrowed power and in my opinion the downfall of wows enjoyment. WoD > legion to me. (unpopular opinion I know)
    Both the Legendary ring and Cloak were borrowed power systems that existed before Legion. Legion introduced AP grinding and WQs -- two systems designed to help keep casual players busy -- and those were, imo, some of the worst introductions the game has seen.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    MoP. Still frankly the pinnacle of character power. Your DH tank would not stand a chance against anything in MoP. It was the time where tanks were most OP (to the point where a lvl 80 paladin could solo lvl 90 raids, try that on your DH), where trinkets were OP, snapshotting... The class kits we got in Legion were measily compared to MoP.
    My legion veng DH would cut through a 40 man raid team of MoP players, composed of the best players on planet earth, without even losing 1% health. It would look like Sauron in the opener of LOTR. Which makes sense because it happens 2 expacs later and your character SHOULD always be stronger 2 expacs down the road.

    Compare that to legion vs SL (2 expacs later) and you can't make that same argument. Your SL character would tremble in fear at the sight of your legion character. Your Legion character would practically be an unkillable raid boss in SL. Compare the legendary's alone, and the power gap can't be closed. You could wear every single legendary for your class at once in SL, and still be one shot by my legendary trinket of Legion.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Both the Legendary ring and Cloak were borrowed power systems that existed before Legion. Legion introduced AP grinding and WQs -- two systems designed to help keep casual players busy -- and those were, imo, some of the worst introductions the game has seen.
    I actually don't mind either of those during legion because it made sense within the context of your AP weapon.

    That said, if i knew then that the systems would stick around forever after legion i'd agree. It should have been legion only, and then a whole new system for BFA rather than BFA just keep the legion system, but make it a discount version of it

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    My legion veng DH would cut through a 40 man raid team of MoP players, composed of the best players on planet earth, without even losing 1% health. It would look like Sauron in the opener of LOTR. Which makes sense because it happens 2 expacs later and your character SHOULD always be stronger 2 expacs down the road.

    Compare that to legion vs SL (2 expacs later) and you can't make that same argument. Your SL character would tremble in fear at the sight of your legion character. Your Legion character would practically be an unkillable raid boss in SL. Compare the legendary's alone, and the power gap can't be closed. You could wear every single legendary for your class at once in SL, and still be one shot by my legendary trinket of Legion.
    Writing the same thing twice doesn't make you more right. I don't know how you get that idea.
    Character power comes from comparison. Sure, a level 1 character weaker than a lvl 60 one. But a character from MoP would wipe the floor with a Legion character if brought to the same level. That's what counts. Characters in Legion were not that much stronger than they are now, simply because strength is relative.
    In MoP WLs could tank some raid bosses. They cannot do that now (nor could they in Legion). So they got weaker. Tanks topped the meters in MoP, both dmg and healing wise. They did not do that in Legion. They were weaker in Legion than they were in MoP.
    Putting a lvl 90 char against a lvl 110 char is a stupid comparison. That's like saying a random imp from the broken shore is stronger than the Lich King, because the imp is lvl 110 and LK is 80.

  13. #113
    The first patch of legion was dog poop. It got better, but also had the benefits of AP being novel and coming after WoD, the second worst expansion to date.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Nah nah, see... I live by one simple creed: You might catch more flies with honey, but to catch honeys you gotta be fly.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    Writing the same thing twice doesn't make you more right. I don't know how you get that idea.
    Character power comes from comparison. Sure, a level 1 character weaker than a lvl 60 one. But a character from MoP would wipe the floor with a Legion character if brought to the same level. That's what counts. Characters in Legion were not that much stronger than they are now, simply because strength is relative.
    In MoP WLs could tank some raid bosses. They cannot do that now (nor could they in Legion). So they got weaker. Tanks topped the meters in MoP, both dmg and healing wise. They did not do that in Legion. They were weaker in Legion than they were in MoP.
    Putting a lvl 90 char against a lvl 110 char is a stupid comparison. That's like saying a random imp from the broken shore is stronger than the Lich King, because the imp is lvl 110 and LK is 80.
    my veng DH absolutely topped the meters in dps and healing during legion. You could bring a MoP character up to legion stats, and you still wouldn't even be capable of breaking my legendary trinkets shield... and even if you did, it would just one shot you.

  15. #115
    Dreadlord Captainn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darklogrus View Post
    It followed an expansion abandoned in beta..
    I'd say this is probably the most right. It's the Cataclysm Effect. MoP was genuinely a decent expansion, but it felt so much better because it followed a boring expansion.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    What made Legion better?
    1. The mog artwork in Legion was absolutely *stellar*. They might be the best artwork for any expac ever. That made grinding for mog acceptable. That made me want to do Mage Tower. I absolutely *had* to have the Ashbringer Mage Tower art, the prot pally / prot warrior Mage Tower art, the Death Knight Unholy mage tower art, the fire mage Mage Tower art, etc. A *lot* of the raid sets look absolutely glorious. Have you seen the mythic mail shaman set for the Nighthold?

    The mog artwork in BfA and SL are totally ugly and look like crap, so I have absolutely ZERO interest in grinding anima.

    2. I like how doing most any activity progressed your general AP bar in Legion. So you had much more variety and options. In SL, there are 343874934 progress bars tied to specific activities, so I can't pick and choose, I have to do them all.

    3. The story and lore of Legion felt extremely relevant to the history of the game. SL almost feels like a completely different game with completely different lore and completely new and way too many completely new and unknown characters. Its jarring.
    Last edited by Kokolums; 2021-06-29 at 04:08 PM.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  17. #117
    Warchief
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    Suramar alone, the actual location and questline, put Legion in the running for best xpac. BFA had literally nothing worth writing home about. SL is more the same.

  18. #118
    The worst new feature of Legion was the Suramar questline. I don't play this game for solo adventures, and Suramar was the absolutely WRONG path to take. I hated Suramar with a passion. It was boring as hell.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    my veng DH absolutely topped the meters in dps and healing during legion. You could bring a MoP character up to legion stats, and you still wouldn't even be capable of breaking my legendary trinkets shield... and even if you did, it would just one shot you.
    I don't think you know what you're talking about. But I can see that you as a DH player would believe Legion to be the best expansion ever.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    I don't think you know what you're talking about. But I can see that you as a DH player would believe Legion to be the best expansion ever.
    Well, i wouldn't have had to go DH if they didn't ruin demo lock so terribly in Legion so you take the good with the bad. I'd rank Legion probably 3rd best expac, it's the best of MODERN WoW for sure... but modern wow is like, WoD-SL so that's an incredibly low bar.

    And my only point wasn't that the legion was bestest ever, it was that it is never a good feeling in an RPG to lose that much power dramatically. Skill pruning is bad too, but it's not the same thing as having your power output cut in half or worse. Our characters in Legion, including the weapons and legendarys, were more powerful than any other time in WoW history. Compare SL legendary's to legion legendary's, they simply aren't even in the same league when it comes to raw power output.. and we could wear 2.

    then comes BFA and SL and you still to this day, feel noticeably weaker than in legion.

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