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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    You're not honestly implying that the general sentiment in Legion was even close to expansions like BfA or Shadowlands.
    Legion is, by a wide margin, the highest point modern WoW has ever achieved. Both in terms of quality, and Sub numbers

    Bfa felt like a k-mart discount Legion, and SL is like a dollar store discount version of BFA

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    Both BFA and now SL are very clearly less popular than Legion and this reflects my own personal opinion.
    That's impossible for you to say right now, since SL is far from over.

    Legion's 7.0 patch was vastly inferior to SL's 9.0:
    bad stuff in 7.0:
    - broken specs/classes
    - m+ but without timing a key you would get no loot. Also depleting keystones destroyed it (irrc).
    - the horror of playing an offspec/alt and having to grind from zero with a spec you're missing half of your abilities because they got taken away and put behind AP farm. Also no form of catchup for anything. Artifact knowledge was not a passive increase.
    - daily grind for order ressources.
    - random legendaries with a initially bugged droprate. Also many legendaries were useless, so dropping one of those lessened your effort to drop a meaningful one. Also not good for alts.

    in 9.0:
    - patch drags out too long.
    - legendary farm is boring (still better then the non deterministic system of legion), but short
    - leveling is boring af
    - no Suramar, boring endzone

    Legion had definitly the better content. Better zones, Suramar, class halls, tons of lore, etc.
    SL has better (as in: you don't have to waste so much time) systems, a better raid and better class toolkits. Also it's more alt friendly.

    If you just care about playing raids and dungeons: SL is way better. If you care about open world content: Legion is superior.

  3. #83
    Not a damn thing. Legion sucked
    And shepherds we shall be...

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    You're not honestly implying that the general sentiment in Legion was even close to expansions like BfA or Shadowlands.
    I would imply that, yes. Honestly. 7.0 was the worst patch WoW's classes ever had to suffer and the outrage about legendaries was way worse then "omg, Torghast is boring...". Not being able to compete because you can't get your legendary (which amounted up to 20% of your dmg) was a horrible design decision.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Of course it was people complained none stop about.

    Grinding ap.

    Rng legendarys.

    Ap not being account or even spec wide.

    Pvp scaling killing pvp.

    Mythic+ making raids pointless.

    7.2 just being a reworked broken shore.

    And on and on and on.

    The only part of legion that wasn’t treated like the worse thing ever was the order hall storylines and the mage tower.
    I absolutely detested Legion when it came out and still very much dislike it now but the amount of complaints back then wasn't even remotely close to what we saw with BfA and what we're seeing now with Shadowlands.
    The absolute state of Warcraft lore in 2021:
    Kyrians: We need to keep chucking people into the Maw because it's our job.
    Also Kyrians: Why is the Maw growing stronger despite all our efforts?

  6. #86
    For me, Legion was better because each class, and then each spec had a weapon to obtain and a questline to get it. Then you could work on upgrading each weapon. Couple that with Class Mounts and the Class Halls, and I had TONS to do. This expansion, they stripped it down to worldquest, dungeons, raids, and systems.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Nzx View Post
    I'll preface this by saying Legion is by far and away my most favourite expansion of all time.

    But everyone complained about Legion. Off the top of my head:

    -"Class fantasy"
    -Artifact knowledge/power in general
    -Feeling "segregated" by order halls
    -"Order hall x > order hall y blizzard hates y class"
    -Legendary drop rate
    -Legendary soft cap
    -Legendary random acquisition
    -People literally rerolling a new mage because they got a Sephuz first
    -Trying to off-spec early was impossible due to AP
    -"EN is garbage"

    I could keep going, but I'm sure you get the picture. This community will complain about fucking anything, and then an expansion or two later claim whatever they complained about then was objectively better and unassailable in its perfection. Similar case studies in this effect include TBC, Wrath, and the #1 culprit, MoP.
    Yes, but the amount of insatisfaction is what make a expansion good or bad. Rerolling is a player mad at the game because he got bad RNG but he still wants to PLAY. Shadowlands make people just quit of boredom.

    And yes, TBC, Wrath, MoP and Legion where good expansions. Nobody says WoD was the best, or Cataclysm (lol anyone even remember Cata).

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    I would imply that, yes. Honestly. 7.0 was the worst patch WoW's classes ever had to suffer and the outrage about legendaries was way worse then "omg, Torghast is boring...". Not being able to compete because you can't get your legendary (which amounted up to 20% of your dmg) was a horrible design decision.
    That’s delusional hindsight talking. Legion had complaints but they were 1/100 what sl and bfa were because legion was just a better made game at every single level

    Yeah you wanna cry about rng legendaries but I’d argue at least they were rewarding and powerful. Sl legendarys are barely blue quality to me and are pitiful in terms of power by comparison.

    Also, it is never good game design to take power away from a player rather than add to it in an rpg or mmorpg. I should never be able to say my character from 1-2 expansions ago could effortlessly solo a 40 man raid team of my character from current expac but that’s the case.

    That is bad game design for any mmo or rpg let alone an mmorpg

  9. #89
    Herald of the Titans Alroxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    Both BFA and now SL are very clearly less popular than Legion and this reflects my own personal opinion.
    Wow some great rose tinted nostalgia glasses you have on there.

    Did you not remember all the negatives of Legion?

    Maw of Souls grind for AP until AP was normalized per dungeon length
    Zero customization of Artifact progression, you relied on guides to tell you exactly how to allocate AP points
    Horrible Legendary earning system - BS RNG even with BLP which only got better at the end with purchasable legendaries.
    12 "Week" Timegate of broken shore
    M+ key depletion
    Suramar reputation gating - required X amount of rep to progress story.
    Sure new DH class that gutted most of Demonology Warlocks at the time.
    Profession Rank Quests that HAD to be done in dungeons or for when a specific World Boss was up.
    Flying added after we moved on (content wise) to Argus.
    Disjointed storylines - Events in Stormheim don't relate to events in Val'sharah beyond getting the pillars of creation.
    Missing zone - Thal'Dranath
    ---
    Don't be a victim of IFOWISNAWL!
    Call 800-Calm-The-F-Down, Operators are standing by. Now taking calls on all your Legion worries.

  10. #90
    why Legion worked for me - mythic+

    having something challenging besides raiding as endgame pve content was great.
    dungeons no longer beeing a mere stepstone but something you could actually sink time into felt just about right.

    on the contrary BFA added literally nothing that worked. Warzones? Island Expedition?
    Neither did Shadowlands. Torghast could have, but it got patched to BFA mechanics mid-beta.

    At this point for me the game is still living by what it did right in Legion (m+) which is collection rust by now.
    Everything they added since then is burrowed power / phased crap / brainless mobile style minigaming thats not motivation to me at all.

  11. #91
    Bloodsail Admiral froschhure's Avatar
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    umlimited scaling, refarmable, bfa was better imo (essences made every specc viable) legion and bfa should relaunch as 1 expansion, bfa is legion+
    love WoWarcraft

  12. #92
    Because it had Illidan and Legion and other super popular shinies for a distraction. Look how everyone hates BfA (a reskinned Legion) in contrast.

    Extra contents and fast patches were nice, but remember they ditched an entire expansion for that.
    Quote Originally Posted by RedGamer030 View Post
    I do not need to be constructive in this thread, nor provide an argument. There is nothing here to actually debate. Your reasoning is flawed and thusly you have no argument.
    ↑ Epitome of Internet Logic

  13. #93
    The catchup mechanics introduced in 7.1.5 -- it was also better because the story until about 7.3
    Last edited by TidalConflux; 2021-06-29 at 02:22 PM.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Ninix View Post

    Did you just write that Legion was worse than.. WoD??
    Yes, I did. It added AP, expanded the bad warforging system with titanforging and had a horrible legendary acquisition system. Legion was okay by the last patch, but the rest of the expansion was awful on the systems side.
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  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    That’s delusional hindsight talking. Legion had complaints but they were 1/100 what sl and bfa were because legion was just a better made game at every single level
    Delusional hindsight is saying Legion had 1/100 of the complaints SL has. It's probably the other way around. Remember, I'm talking about the .0 patches.

    Yeah you wanna cry about rng legendaries but I’d argue at least they were rewarding and powerful. Sl legendarys are barely blue quality to me and are pitiful in terms of power by comparison.
    Which makes it even worse! If 20% of your characters power comes from one item and you can't get that item because of RNG, then that's horribly game design. Even the old legendaries of WotLK and Cata were better; they were immensly powerful but deterministic. It has a reason why pro guilds had their raid member reroll if the dropped the wrong legendary first. Because rolling a new toon was more likely to get them the right legendary in time.

    Also, it is never good game design to take power away from a player rather than add to it in an rpg or mmorpg. I should never be able to say my character from 1-2 expansions ago could effortlessly solo a 40 man raid team of my character from current expac but that’s the case.
    Legion was the king of pruning. Nearly everything fun or useful was stripped away, be it glyphs or abilities that were a core staple of your class before. In Legion you lost power like in no other expansion before; only the transitioning to BfA was worse. Also in Legion tons of low level stuff broke, probably more than chromie time broke.

    That is bad game design for any mmo or rpg let alone an mmorpg
    I agree. Which makes Legion worse.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tradu View Post
    Yes, I did. It added AP, expanded the bad warforging system with titanforging and had a horrible legendary acquisition system. Legion was okay by the last patch, but the rest of the expansion was awful on the systems side.
    this poster gets it.

  16. #96
    Legion had enough story and reason to level alts. Quite frankly a RPG is dependent on it's story... gearing and such are bonuses but the story must carry the gameplay. If you are not invested in the outcome of the story then the gameplay flaws are more noticeable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    No fucking way. The worst idea since democracy.

  17. #97
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    I absolutely detested Legion when it came out and still very much dislike it now but the amount of complaints back then wasn't even remotely close to what we saw with BfA and what we're seeing now with Shadowlands.
    Your right it was likely more then what we have seen for shadowlands, mabye a bit behind bfa.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    Delusional hindsight is saying Legion had 1/100 of the complaints SL has. It's probably the other way around. Remember, I'm talking about the .0 patches.



    Which makes it even worse! If 20% of your characters power comes from one item and you can't get that item because of RNG, then that's horribly game design. Even the old legendaries of WotLK and Cata were better; they were immensly powerful but deterministic. It has a reason why pro guilds had their raid member reroll if the dropped the wrong legendary first. Because rolling a new toon was more likely to get them the right legendary in time.



    Legion was the king of pruning. Nearly everything fun or useful was stripped away, be it glyphs or abilities that were a core staple of your class before. In Legion you lost power like in no other expansion before; only the transitioning to BfA was worse. Also in Legion tons of low level stuff broke, probably more than chromie time broke.



    I agree. Which makes Legion worse.

    - - - Updated - - -



    this poster gets it.
    You are lying to yourself if you think, even with unpruned skills, that your character at ANY POINT in WoW history could stand up to your character in Legion. The power you had in legion was just beyond anything else in WoW history. I could play my veng DH of legion, and effortlessly solo a 40 man raid team of that exact character 1-2 expansions later. That is just horrific game design my dude, horrific.

    You shouldn't ever have to look back at your character from 2 expacs back and /tremble in fear of him. My veng DH of legion would cut through a 40 man raid team of the same character from BFA/SL like Sauron in the opener to LOTR. I doubt i'd even lose 1% health before i wiped them.

    You should never, and i repeat NEVER, take power away from a player once given. It reeks of creative bankruptcy

  19. #99
    Well, while there are surely many reasons why Legion was better, one of those reasons, imo, is that the "city" they added to the game during that expansion (Suramar City) was, in fact, a city. A city with two dungeons. Not a dungeon with a pretend-city in the background.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    The only part of legion that wasn’t treated like the worse thing ever was the order hall storylines and the mage tower.
    Depends on which class you played though.

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