What are you not enjoying about the game?

[Advent]

Some people really need to get over their hatred of wow. It's ridiculous at this point.

[Jazzhands]

100% this is my entire issue with FFXIV.

Oh.......and lots of weebing. Must EVERYONE be a cat dude or a bunny girl in skimpy clothes in Limsa looking exactly the same?

I'm not gonna dispute the levels of weeb in both the game and community, however it's hard to not look at least a bit anime no matter what thanks to the art style.

That being said, it's only about 98% of the community that goes full weeb, some of us like to have fun with it and play, say, a lalafel guido.

[Wrecktangle]

You are conflating a bunch of things here. Flex isn't a type of content. It's a format for how many people can enter a raid. Changing 8 man raids to support 5-10 players doesn't change what content is current or left behind or whatever. A similar thing is true for M+. It's a format for playing newer content, not a system for expanding the longevity or viability of older content. Neither of these things have anything to do with abandonment of content.

Mythic+ has been absolutely cancerous to wow and is one of the most destructive things they have ever added to the game, so the suggestion of adding it to FF14 and ruining that game too is horrible. It's a system practically custom designed to encourage toxicity and degenerate gameplay. This is exactly the stuff I initially took umbrage with and you argued with me: You want to turn FF14 into everything that ruined WoW.

I was very clear when I said content/systems. Mythic+ and Flex are both systems. I also don't know where you got the idea that M+ has been absolutely cancerous to WoW. Is there a report or data source you can provide to back that up? I haven't heard that distinction.

I'll hold my breath....

You are confusing "tightly tuned" and "well designed" for "difficult". I didn't say anything about difficulty levels. The idea that you can't well well designed content unless it is soul-crushingly difficult is absurd on its face. This is EXACTLY the shit I talked about initially and you said I was off base on: You are applying the trash, toxic wow mentality to FF14. You are telling me that I am not allowed to simultaneously want well design, tight content and also not care for very difficult content.

No you are confusing them not me lol. Re-read your post.

No, they are two different concepts. Heaven on High is not abandoned. It's a complete piece of content that you can do and enjoy whenever you want. It gives rewards that are still relevant and provides a challenge that is still relevant. Abandoned would be disallowing entry, or making it so that when I go in I kill everything in one hit. That's what wow does. It makes the old content unplayable as it was in almost every case.

Actually that's not what abandoned means. Something can still be abandoned, but functional. Class design is that way. There are no more classes coming to the game, and minimal if any updates made there. Something can also be abandoned, but less functional.

So the right decisions can be close to a 50% difference to the wrong decisions? Thanks for proving my point.

The fact that you put exactly 0 effort into responding to this is exactly how I know you had no intention of arguing in good faith. If you drew the conclusion that the most optimal scenario and the literal WORST possible scenario somehow proves you right, you lack any genuine critical thinking (and I don't believe that to be true) or you're arguing maliciously.

Thank you for confirming. Best of luck out there.

Your data doesn't become good by pointing at a lack of alternative data. Your data sucks. You do not have comprehensive data. You have cream skimmed data from the people that CHOOSE to post their logs. It is worthless.

Then what is your data if mine is worthless lol? Of that's right a malicious hate filled agenda founded on irrationality and misinformation.

And this is all it comes down to.

You can try to dress it up all you like, you can pretend like you're arguing cohesive, legitimate points. But all it comes down to is you hating on the old game for hurting you and being irrational about the new game because you think it loves you or something.

What the fuck do you think "tightly tuned" means? Are we back to making up definitions? Does fluid now mean rigid again?

And stop using "bu...but...but your trash toxic WoW mentality!" as some kind of actual argument.

Very few posters actually beat me down to the point where I no longer feel compelled to respond, but this guys there now. I said my last bit. Making up alternative definitions, hate fueled misinformation campaigns, and just general maliciousness.

hey weebs...

and warcraft players.

How on earth do you think you're against one another? Seriously.

Ive spent 15 years literally avoiding proclaiming my self as an mmo player. Because we are the absolute worst, basement dwelling assholes in this universe of (people who have aspirations and goals in the actual real world and want to LEVEL UP). Wanna criticise 'weeb culture'? Ive literally spent 15 years avoiding this attack. Wanna introduce wow into any conversation in the real and actual world? Wow players/weeb ff 14? We all suck. I get you think wow is more brofseffrauurus. But when faced with the real world of EVEN 'GAMERS', its pure. nerd. culture.

Wow is embarrassing. Has been for about for 12 years. FF14 is equally embarrassing. I dont want to say 'we're in this together' but to think the existence of orcs helps us? It doesnt you neckbeards. You are still trash in the actual world. You are an MMO player. Stop fantasizing youre some kind of bro. You are a neckbeard. So am i. MMO players are the cliche of the cliche. We hit every single checkmark. YOU. AINT. IT. Youre a neckbeard. Stop identifying with these assholes.

What the heck is this nonsense lol. I'm not some basement dwelling neckbeard who lives with his parents still nor am I trash in the real world. Gaming is not embarrassing, it's a perfectly acceptable hobby. How am I cliche of a cliche? I race cars on the weekends, play USTA tennis on weeknights I'm not gaming, and work at a fortune 500. This isn't some humblebrag, but I hope you can see that whatever comraderie attempt you just made was beyond pitiful and not representative of everyone.

One of my good WoW buddies is a competition powerlifter. Another works at NASA. Like, what the heck are you going on about?

[Swnem]

Biggest gripe with the game is lack of any class customization, no talent tree is pretty hard to swallow if you come from any other MMO. There is no choice on how you play your job, just one way.

There is some customization with materia though.

But here is the question. The game is very well balanced atm and all jobs are viable. Would you trade that for a talent system and flavor of the month balance?

It's not like i hate talent systems. I just think dev time is better spent making new content than crunching class numbers for every talent combination. In the end, everyone is gonna play the same one anyways.

I personally like that it is this way. I overdosed on systems in WoW. The jobs have more abilities than WoW, i get my kick there.

- - - Updated - - -

Some people really need to get over their hatred of wow. It's ridiculous at this point.

That'd be ok if people stopped saying "Do it this way cause that is how WoW does it and i'm used to that".
FF is a different game and does things differently. Leaving feedback that is basically "why isn't this just like WoW, but not WoW" is what i find tireing. I like FF cause it is different from WoW.

[Advent]

There is some customization with materia though.

But here is the question. The game is very well balanced atm and all jobs are viable. Would you trade that for a talent system and flavor of the month balance?

It's not like i hate talent systems. I just think dev time is better spent making new content than crunching class numbers for every talent combination. In the end, everyone is gonna play the same one anyways.

I personally like that it is this way. I overdosed on systems in WoW. The jobs have more abilities than WoW, i get my kick there.

- - - Updated - - -

I'd be fine with this if the job abilities did more than damage. There's little to no player expression in them because they have no secondary CC effects. No knockback, stun, pull, fear, immobilize or anything like it. I feel like Guild Wars 2 does player customization and skill expression better than FF14 for sure.

That'd be ok if people stopped saying "Do it this way cause that is how WoW does it and i'm used to that".
FF is a different game and does things differently. Leaving feedback that is basically "why isn't this just like WoW, but not WoW" is what i find tireing. I like FF cause it is different from WoW.

A lot of these concerns come from people who have played wow, sure. It is a wow forum, after all. But many of them come from veterans of other games as well such as BDO, ESO and Gw2. I wouldn't dismiss them as trying to turn the game into wow, that's too narrow minded.

[Wrecktangle]

There is some customization with materia though.

But here is the question. The game is very well balanced atm and all jobs are viable. Would you trade that for a talent system and flavor of the month balance?

It's not like i hate talent systems. I just think dev time is better spent making new content than crunching class numbers for every talent combination. In the end, everyone is gonna play the same one anyways.

In my other post above, I ran the full gamut of SimC on my character for all possible throughput combinations. The spread between absolute worst and absolute best was 5.2% DPS, and that's with picking an AOE talent on an ST fight, with more realistic options the spread would be even smaller to the point that player skill/fight breakdown (kill time, cooldown timing, and even substat spread) would further reduce them. That's surprisingly tight.

I'd love some ways to individualize my character in FF14, especially if it just barely touches balance. Coveneants though? Not so much.

[ippollite]

I was very clear when I said content/systems. Mythic+ and Flex are both systems. I also don't know where you got the idea that M+ has been absolutely cancerous to WoW. Is there a report or data source you can provide to back that up? I haven't heard that distinction.

I'll hold my breath....



No you are confusing them not me lol. Re-read your post.



Actually that's not what abandoned means. Something can still be abandoned, but functional. Class design is that way. There are no more classes coming to the game, and minimal if any updates made there. Something can also be abandoned, but less functional.



The fact that you put exactly 0 effort into responding to this is exactly how I know you had no intention of arguing in good faith. If you drew the conclusion that the most optimal scenario and the literal WORST possible scenario somehow proves you right, you lack any genuine critical thinking (and I don't believe that to be true) or you're arguing maliciously.

Thank you for confirming. Best of luck out there.



Then what is your data if mine is worthless lol? Of that's right a malicious hate filled agenda founded on irrationality and misinformation.



Very few posters actually beat me down to the point where I no longer feel compelled to respond, but this guys there now. I said my last bit. Making up alternative definitions, hate fueled misinformation campaigns, and just general maliciousness.



What the heck is this nonsense lol. I'm not some basement dwelling neckbeard who lives with his parents still nor am I trash in the real world. Gaming is not embarrassing, it's a perfectly acceptable hobby. How am I cliche of a cliche? I race cars on the weekends, play USTA tennis on weeknights I'm not gaming, and work at a fortune 500. This isn't some humblebrag, but I hope you can see that whatever comraderie attempt you just made was beyond pitiful and not representative of everyone.

One of my good WoW buddies is a competition powerlifter. Another works at NASA. Like, what the heck are you going on about?

Ooops.

1. Posted in the wrong thread.
2. Apropos of nothing.
3. I was very.... very drunk (and obviously up in my fee-fee's )

[Swnem]

I'd be fine with this if the job abilities did more than damage. There's little to no player expression in them because they have no secondary CC effects. No knockback, stun, pull, fear, immobilize or anything like it. I feel like Guild Wars 2 does player customization and skill expression better than FF14 for sure.


A lot of these concerns come from people who have played wow, sure. It is a wow forum, after all. But many of them come from veterans of other games as well such as BDO, ESO and Gw2. I wouldn't dismiss them as trying to turn the game into wow, that's too narrow minded.

The effects do extra damage when executed correctly (positionals) and grant buffs or enable to use of other abilities.
It would be pretty annoying if they applied CC effects.
There are seperate abilities for CC. There are stuns, interrupts, hard CC, roots, knockback immunity, positional requirement denial and snares. They are their own abilities as they should be. It would be a pain if they were rotational. It's bad enough that charges do damage and are rotational, compromising your mobility options.

In GW2 they had to invent a new "shield bar" for enemies so those abilities with CC aren't useless in PvE. I don't think that is a good design at all myself.

Guild wars is a different type of combat as well, as you have to pick your load out/limited number of abilities from a lot, which will probably not be ideal for every type of content, while in FF you have acess to all your abilities at all times, except PvP which has a lite version of the job. Different design.

[Advent]

The effects do extra damage when executed correctly (positionals) and grant buffs or enable to use of other abilities.
It would be pretty annoying if they applied CC effects.

I probably didn't articulate that well, but what I meant is that you have very few class-defining abilities that do anything other than damage. No ability to clone yourself (Like Mesmers in Gw2), or a second health bar and new abilities (Like Necromancer shroud) or a blink (Like wow mages). Abilities beyond "It does damage" that truly define and differentiate classes aren't very omnipresent in FFXIV.

There are seperate abilities for CC. There are stuns, interrupts, hard CC, roots, knockback immunity, positional requirement denial and snares. They are their own abilities as they should be. It would be a pain if they were rotational. It's bad enough that charges do damage and are rotational, compromising your mobility options.

I agree that's not ideal. I recall this being a thing for warriors on Ultraxion back in Dragon Soul where they'd do more damage if they weaved Heroic Leap into their rotation, because it did damage.

In GW2 they had to invent a new "shield bar" for enemies so those abilities with CC aren't useless in PvE. I don't think that is a good design at all myself.

That's mostly for boss enemies, and it exists primarily because they wanted CC to be usable on bosses without completely hamstringing them. Imagine if you could completely keep a boss stun locked (Which many classes likely could), it'd be awful for player engagement.

Guild wars is a different type of combat as well, as you have to pick your load out/limited number of abilities from a lot, which will probably not be ideal for every type of content, while in FF you have acess to all your abilities at all times, except PvP which has a lite version of the job. Different design.

Of course the combat is different, Gw2 is something of a hybrid. But the way it handles dynamic combat decisions is very good, and something I believe FFXIV is sorely lacking. There's no consideration for ability use beyond what does more damage, and when. Your choice of healing for most jobs is a single ability that takes no consideration for what job you're on. It causes a lot of combat-related content to fall flat because your ability to make decisions on the fly is hamstrung by a lack of meaningful choices to actually make. I think this could be improved by looking at how other games achieve it, and learning from them.

[Swnem]

I probably didn't articulate that well, but what I meant is that you have very few class-defining abilities that do anything other than damage. No ability to clone yourself (Like Mesmers in Gw2), or a second health bar and new abilities (Like Necromancer shroud) or a blink (Like wow mages). Abilities beyond "It does damage" that truly define and differentiate classes aren't very omnipresent in FFXIV.

I agree that's not ideal. I recall this being a thing for warriors on Ultraxion back in Dragon Soul where they'd do more damage if they weaved Heroic Leap into their rotation, because it did damage.

That's mostly for boss enemies, and it exists primarily because they wanted CC to be usable on bosses without completely hamstringing them. Imagine if you could completely keep a boss stun locked (Which many classes likely could), it'd be awful for player engagement.

Of course the combat is different, Gw2 is something of a hybrid. But the way it handles dynamic combat decisions is very good, and something I believe FFXIV is sorely lacking. There's no consideration for ability use beyond what does more damage, and when. Your choice of healing for most jobs is a single ability that takes no consideration for what job you're on. It causes a lot of combat-related content to fall flat because your ability to make decisions on the fly is hamstrung by a lack of meaningful choices to actually make. I think this could be improved by looking at how other games achieve it, and learning from them.

I do believe the design for FFXIV jobs comes from their weapon, not so much a special fantasy gimmick. That is what differentiates them.

As for abilities. Sure, that is your opinion. I didn't enjoy GW2's combat at all so i don't share it. I don't think there were meaningful choices at all. You picked a build that works and do it's rotation, which involved stacking a debuff for DoT or physical damage increase.
I mean, it is difficult to compare cause GW2 is a game with a big focus on the overworld and how dangerous it is. So, CC's baked on your damage skills help you survive. FF is a more rigid instanced game whose overworld is not overly dangerous. So, the combat systems are designed for the respective games. I don't think one benefits much from importing from the other.

But, we'll see. YoshiP was talking about how to make DPS fun, implying we will see sone changes in endwalker. Not necessarely the ones you are envisioning, but i am curious.

[Wrecktangle]

Ooops.

1. Posted in the wrong thread.
2. Apropos of nothing.
3. I was very.... very drunk (and obviously up in my fee-fee's )

Fair enough I was super confused.

It's bad enough that charges do damage and are rotational, compromising your mobility options.

I actually hate that gap closers do damage in this game.

In GW2 they had to invent a new "shield bar" for enemies so those abilities with CC aren't useless in PvE. I don't think that is a good design at all myself.

Blade and Soul had this design as well and I loved it. You had specific # of CC skills that had various functions and requirements and it was nice trying to fit those puzzles in to interrupt as many mechanics as possible as well as chaining CC and ani-cancelling combos on normal mobs.

[Advent]

I actually hate that gap closers do damage in this game.

I get the impression that the devs don't think players will enjoy pushing a button that doesn't do damage.

[drix93]

Hmm I would probably say a better auction house?

[ippollite]

The arthryryte currents in the final zone of stormblood. Loch thingy. They can die in a fire. In fact almost all of stormblood aytheryte currents can bog off... but this one in particular. I have a feeling they decided this was "gameplay" and wanted to make it a "fun" adventure. Its not. It can suck a bag of d****. I hope they get covered in goop and need at least 3 showers to really feel clean again.

[Poppen]

currently level 42 archer and have done all the quests below MSQ including https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/w..._That_Got_Away yet I still do not have the option to begin Bard.

Is it because I only have 2 days left of a free trial? This is kinda frustrating because I have googled for answers but can't seem to find what I am looking for

[kaminaris]

currently level 42 archer and have done all the quests below MSQ including https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/w..._That_Got_Away yet I still do not have the option to begin Bard.

Is it because I only have 2 days left of a free trial? This is kinda frustrating because I have googled for answers but can't seem to find what I am looking for

to unlock bard you gotta find blue quest, its not related to MSQ. Im bard myself, its just some dude sitting under tree branch in open world

[Maljinwo]

currently level 42 archer and have done all the quests below MSQ including https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/w..._That_Got_Away yet I still do not have the option to begin Bard.

Is it because I only have 2 days left of a free trial? This is kinda frustrating because I have googled for answers but can't seem to find what I am looking for

Your 'advanced' class is unlocked with the level 30 class quest.
You should go back to the Archer's Guild in Gridania and pick up any quests that you might've missed

[Poppen]

Your 'advanced' class is unlocked with the level 30 class quest.
You should go back to the Archer's Guild in Gridania and pick up any quests that you might've missed

nope, that doesn't help as I have been back several times. The comment above yours may be more helpful, no offence intended

[ippollite]

You need to have also finished the sylph quests in the msq. Dunno if that helps, but it might be the roadblock?

[Ringthane]

While I can't argue that the account management and download stuff for this game is pretty bad, there are numerous guides online as well as instructions on the website itself that tell you how to manage all of it. If you cared about playing, you could spend the time reading that stuff.

Again I agree, it shouldn't be needed, but the resources to help you through this problem ARE there.

I'm talking about not being able to launch the game. I don't need a freaking guide to tell me how to double-click on an icon. If I can't even get the game launched, I'm not very enthused about the rest of it.