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  1. #281
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    I get that. But it is still weird that an undead chick who is presently in the afterlife, is so disturbed by the prospect of her boyfriend dying. The fuck is that going to stop?
    I don't think it's the notion of him dying - it's the idea that he could die and she *not* know about it (by, as you said, dint of her being in the afterlife). Her lack of awareness of his death means that the Jailer has to be involved with keeping it from her since he has nowhere else he could go but the Maw given the current state of the Arbiter.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." - Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by TheFirstOnes View Post
    @username993720

    It'll come to play 9.2 imo.

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    Think of 9.1 as Infinity War, with Zovaal claiming all the Sigils and us "remaking them", and us completing our Covenant issues all while some factors aren't yet dealt with.

    Now, think of 9.2 as Endgame, where we challenge Zovaal with the Sepulcher, we save Elune and the Pantheon of Life from the Mawsworn and the Dreadqueen, the Venthyr find Denathrius and defeat him, Uther finds closure with Arthas, Helya returns and loses to the Keepers + us at Ulduar, Galakrond is raised and becomes a Mawsworn only to die by us, and other factors as well.
    I think that's way too much for a single patch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    and? have nothign to doa bout it



    and that is bullshit, since she didn't to escape, she could have killed both right there and end major threats against her own plans, that is just bad villain plot, where they let the hero live "because he does not need/want/have to kill him, because ~~reasons~~
    Killing someone is time consuming. She didn't have time to deal with the forces of the Horde and the Alliance in reckoning, like she didn't have time to face Ysera. She's got other things to do. In BfA it was to beat the Lich King, now it is to collect the sigils i guess.
    Commenting on these forums is like walking on eggshells - you never know where the next infraction is gonna come from.

  3. #283
    What are people talking about. This was a super bad-ass cinematic.

    Sylvanas was awesome
    Tyrande was awesome

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth-Piekus View Post
    Because it's simple my friend. Sylvannas is not that powerful as many on this forum think. Her plot armor is just huge but apart from that the only noticable feats are killing an Old Orc Warrior Saurfang and a pathetic version of the Lich King.

    She lost against Malfurion and she would have been dead if it wasn't for Saurfang.
    She lost against Genn and she would have been dead if Genn did not decide to talk at the start but go for a stealth kill or decided to go inside with his whole guard or if he decided not to stop the attack to let her get up.
    She could not fight any of the other Eternal ones of the Shadowlands.
    She could not go and abduct any of the Racial Leaders of Azeroth herself and had to send lackeys.
    She left in shames from Orgrimmar and if it wasn't for plot armor she could have been dead.
    She died from Godfrey but ressurected by Valkyr plot armor.
    She had no way of stopping Jaina in the Undercity otherwise she could do that.
    And finally she clearly lost against Tyrande saved at the last second by her plot armor as Elune refused Tyrande doing a Vegeta Explosion move cause that was where it was going. Then run with her tail between her legs in the sight of Ysera.

    Anduin on the other hand who was already a powerhouse became a mega powerhouse easily defeating an Eternal One with his whole court in just two moves. Isn't it strange why the Jailer sends Anduin now and has Sylvannas as canon fodder?
    You've been corrected on that just yesterday. Apply at least some limits to your fanfiction peddling.

    Also, your new additions here are just as wrong. Putting aside how Sylvanas didn't lose against Malfurion even in game, because all that happened before Saurfang applied his honor to Malfurion's back was Sylvanas getting momentarily rooted in place, A Good War came after that with a different version of events and as the latest piece of lore it takes precedence.

    And what happened in A Good War? Malfurion outright fled from Sylvanas on multiple occasions. Three, at least. And then prior to Saurfang jumping in on the action the last thing that happened in the story's version of events was Sylvanas ragdolling Malfurion into a tree.

    As for Genn, this isn't even a case of you disregarding newer lore for the sake of convenience to your fanfiction, as there's only one version of events here. And it does not support you in the slightest. First of all, there were Dark Rangers and other elite Forsaken forces outside, starting with Nathanos. The frontal assault wouldn't exactly pan out. And you can watch the BfA opening cinematic to see what Sylvanas does with nameless mooks either way.

    The rest of this fascinating hot take that has totally not been done by you and immediately debunked before ignores that Genn landed a direct blow on Sylvanas' face during that fight. With his claws. You know, the very same claws that shortly before he was using to turn Felguards into minced meat. Yet he didn't even leave a mark on her. So, pray tell, what would him going for a stealth "kill" change in this department, when he already didn't achieve squat by landing a direct hit on one of the most fragile parts of a body?

    The part about the Eternal Ones is pure speculation unsubstantiated by anything. The part about lackeys would only make sense if those lackeys were actually stronger than Sylvanas and nothing indicates that. And she was fleeing from Ysera so hard she stood in place to give one last snarky bit of monologue to taunt Tyrande and Ysera did absolutely squat against her in that time.

    As for Orgrimmar, Lor'themar himself that the reason Sylvanas left Orgrimmar when she did is because she no longer needed the Horde to achieve her goals. Which, lo and behold, was proven correct. Never mind that the very reason Sylvanas even "left Orgrimmar in shame" is because of plot contrivance for the sake of the Alliance and the Horde traitors orbiting Anduin, as the reason for her accepting Mak'gora, i.e. her wanting to make Saurfang suffer, does not pan out.

    Because she didn't need to accept it to make Saurfang suffer and, if anything, letting him see his coalition's last effort crumble before him would have made him suffer even more. Especially if she kept him alive through necromancy afterwards. Because as indicated by (again) the side opposing her during that engagement, she would have won that battle. Not to mention that even Jaina didn't have a clue what was the magic she used to kill Saurfang. And given how it was an instant KO the moment she stopped playing, the idea that they could have killed is, you guessed it, just more unsubstantiated claims you made just because you can't handle the character.

    The part about Godfrey just shows (for the thousandth time) that you don't understand what plot armor means. Someone being resurrected in a setting with rampant necromancy is not plot armor in the slightest. Especially when the character in question is someone who has already been resurrected in the past (and the setting has no limits to that, which it doesn't as per WotLK) and has a personal pact with beings that are masters of necromancy.

    The Jaina bit on the other hand is you not understanding that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Sylvanas quite clearly wanted Anduin and his squad to die in her trap. Which, you know, is why she flew away before Jaina actually did anything to protect the Alliance members present. So not only are you basing your claims that Sylvanas can't do something based on just her inaction, you're basing it on her inaction to an event she wasn't even a witness to. Which is just all sorts of nonsensical.

    The final piece exposing this particular aspect of headcanon for what it is here is the fact that there actually is prior evidence disproving your claims. Sylvanas is as anti-caster as it gets. She silenced even Dar'khan's spellcasting at a time when he had all of Sunwell's power for himself. The idea she couldn't do the same to Jaina is ridiculous.

    And while we're on the topic, do you want to know what is actual plot armor? Jaina effortlessly shielding herself and others from the Blight when the established lore on the issue made it clear that things like Arcane or even Light magic don't protect from it and the only thing that works is Dreadlord magic.

    Finally, the part about Tyrande is just baseless speculation. For all we know Elune stopped Tyrande because she knew Sylvanas would have survived anyway and that Tyrande would be throwing her life away for nothing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Darth-Piekus View Post
    Considering the feats Jaina have shown it's no wonder any of the others were able to match her.
    The only combat feat of note achieved by Jaina prior to BfA is something she did only with the aid of the Focusing Iris. And even then Thrall held her tidal wave back. Other than that she struck Thalen with all of her might and the dude didn't even drop to his knees.
    Last edited by Mehrunes; 2021-06-30 at 07:25 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  5. #285
    It's really sad and frustrating to see how badly Blizzard has wasted Tyrande, this Night Warrior and the Night Elves in general in these last expansions.
    On the other hand I hope that Shadowlands won't be too long because I have more than enough of Sylvanas and her story, who in addition didn't suffer enough karma since Cataclysm, and of Nathanos too. And also of the Jailer who's the most boring WoW antagonist so far.

  6. #286
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Killing someone is time consuming. She didn't have time to deal with the forces of the Horde and the Alliance in reckoning, like she didn't have time to face Ysera. She's got other things to do. In BfA it was to beat the Lich King, now it is to collect the sigils i guess.
    Again, that is a bullshit ass excuse, its not time consuming from someone with her power lv, she could just blast their ass like she did with Saurfang, or at least one of then, its just bad plot devices and generic villain shenanigans, like the classic villain monologue.

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    that is not "simple again", is a half-asset thing to excuse what happened. Sylvanas did not had the power of the Janitor by the time she commit suicide, she only had the deal, the power she got later



    what feats? a magical boat? my ass they would



    by assuming power levels like that, is just wrong, zuluhead enslaved alextraza thus that mean orcs>dragons and if dragons>sylvanas, Orcs>sylvanas, yet, she wona gainst saurfang.




    dude was raising everyone to undead and could control the world,was taking the dragons to raise and almost got Galakrond, and they simple didn't care? come on, be reasonable.

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    That would mean Danuser waifu would receive a major beatdown and would not get on her way "like a edgy badass character" he think she is

    - - - Updated - - -



    and? have nothign to doa bout it



    and that is bullshit, since she didn't to escape, she could have killed both right there and end major threats against her own plans, that is just bad villain plot, where they let the hero live "because he does not need/want/have to kill him, because ~~reasons~~


    "I mean, i told you not to go to that house".
    - - - Updated - - -



    the lich king power come from the Helm of domination, the sword is just a tool of power pretty much like we got the shadowmourne, if anyone still remember her who should be stronger than frostmourne.[/QUOTE]

    Oh No Galokrond the Dragon they killed when they were PROTODRAGONS. When they didnt knew magic or had titan powers. What a worry for them that must be to fight a weakend version. Which they havent even come close to even revive

    Also you mean the dragon soul was stronger than alex, not the orcs. The dragon soul , the artefact which could oblitarate Icecrown in one spell?

  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Again, that is a bullshit ass excuse, its not time consuming from someone with her power lv, she could just blast their ass like she did with Saurfang, or at least one of then, its just bad plot devices and generic villain shenanigans, like the classic villain monologue.
    Saurfang was an old orc with no magical abilities or protections. Ysera is a dragon aspect and Tyrande is empowered by an actual goddess. There is no way Sylvanas could've just "blasted" either of them. She was already struggling against Tyrande.

  9. #289
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArenaDk View Post
    Oh No Galokrond the Dragon they killed when they were PROTODRAGONS. When they didnt knew magic or had titan powers. What a worry for them that must be to fight a weakend version. Which they havent even come close to even revive
    weak version? they almost got destroyed by galakrond back then with help, this time no DW, you think they could have taken and super empowered giant zombie dragon? rofl

    Also you mean the dragon soul was stronger than alex, not the orcs.
    now you know why our logic hold no ground

    The dragon soul , the artefact which could oblitarate Icecrown in one spell?
    ??? and with what source you affirm that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonrage View Post
    Saurfang was an old orc with no magical abilities or protections. Ysera is a dragon aspect and Tyrande is empowered by an actual goddess. There is no way Sylvanas could've just "blasted" either of them. She was already struggling against Tyrande.
    i didn't know if you watched the trailer, but she literally lost her powers in there, making her totally vulnerable just like an old orc. Ysera is a dead dragon and sylvanus should be stronger by the Janitor power up.

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    I had a good laugh, so once again nothing was achieved and the night warrior arc had a very pitiful payoff. That Tyrande tried to strangle someone, who doesn't need to breath was just amazing XD
    Haha This made my day.

  11. #291
    By withdrawing her power, Elune is teaching Tyrande to forgive.

    The devs played The Last of Us II, and loved it.

  12. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by thottstation View Post
    By withdrawing her power, Elune is teaching Tyrande to forgive.

    The devs played The Last of Us II, and loved it.
    My question is why didn't they let us Forgive Nzoth or that evil Troll Priest.
    At least they had style.

  13. #293
    Well they really suck at portraying the message that vengeance is bad when the persons who have been wronged get no justice and even keep getting chewed by the story, and that those who wronged them, and very often commit incredibly odious and unforgivable don't get the comeuppance they deserve.

  14. #294
    I spent an entire expansion, from at least War of Thorns until into SL, wondering how and why Sylvanas was as powerful as she was until we found out she was in league with the Jailer. I don't understand these comments about Tyrande not even being able to defeat her with the power of Elune when Sylvanas has been hulked out on borrowed Jailer power, she is basically the Night Warrior of Zovaal whether she has glowing markings or not. No lore character has been able to touch her except for that scar from Saurfang, in fact, other characters have arguably been powered down a lot. Malfurion, for example, has been an absolute joke from what he should be capable of doing. Neither Jaina or Anduin with Genn were able to fight off a couple of Mawsworn who came to kidnap them.

    As far as I'm concerned, this was an equal footing battle, especially if Elune is an Eternal One same as Zovaal, both Tyrande and Sylvanas are basically the champions of their patron eternals.
    "People with depression score higher on tests of realism. Intelligence is positively correlated with mental illness and suicide. What this indicates is that if the mind understands too much about reality, it wants to destroy itself. Human life is existential horror."

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyvamp View Post
    What are people talking about. This was a super bad-ass cinematic.

    Sylvanas was awesome
    Tyrande was awesome
    I liked it too. There wasn't a single moment in the fight where Sylvanas was winning. She was on the defense the whole time. Tyrande just shrugged off the chains that bound other strong heroes. I do think they they can't let Tyrande kill Sylvanas (and not the players) , especially in a cinematic, or the player base would riot.

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    If Eluna cared about Tyrande it makes no sense to intervene here and not simply deny the Night Warrior transformation which has always been fatal in the past.
    Again, that supposition only works if you don't really think of Elune as a character with no growth. Did she only really cared when she saw the reality that Tyrande's life was actually going to end instead of being just an intellectual awareness of it, in other words, the realization of her real attachment to Tyrande? Or it could also be that Elune, who has always favored her, thought that all of her subjects she could have survived, but realized that at the end not even her could.

    The whole "makes no sense" doesn't work as a criticism because we simply don't know Elune's motivations. And I will say that those might end up actually sucking, but for a character that has yet to make an actual appearance, it's an unfair criticism -for now-

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    As far as I'm concerned, this was an equal footing battle, especially if Elune is an Eternal One same as Zovaal, both Tyrande and Sylvanas are basically the champions of their patron eternals.
    I both like and dislike that.

    I really like it because it's just interesting to see two mortals duking it out empowered by eternal beings of cosmic power, but also it gives me pause because I do worry about the power escalation. If eventually all the major conflicts are about beings empowered by cosmic forces, it would really just removes us a lot from the whole being part of the world bit.

  17. #297
    Now that i watched... she actually didn't. XD

    She was almost there but ran out of steam. I mean, she couldn't even get an injury on Sylvanas. It was the same usual Sylvanas cartoony villain routine.

  18. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    With what we do know and how Elune has acted up until this point as well as the surrounding events, the most logical answer is sadly that Sylvannas needs to be a raid boss so we can't kill her but we want a flashy Night Warrior scene. The way Night Warrior powers have been described and work up until this point do not align with Elune's characterization thus far, and that's the issue. There could be some double-secret 5-D chess for Elune to intervene at this point, but I still surmise that even following such intervention there are better, more consistent, and more believable ways to do so while following the same theme.
    I mean the core pin form me is that we just don't know Elune's motivations nor personality, really. We just know she's benevolent and seems to have an attachement for Tyrande, but how far that goes is just speculation. Did Elune allow the other Night Warriors to live and die by her power because that's just what it does to a mortal body? Did she hope for Tyrande to be able to resist it? Was she going to let Tyrande die like the rest but she *couldn't* go through it because of her attachement?

    As a slight example for the scene itself, if Tyrande does her little speech to herself to build up power to suicide herself to intercept and kill Sylvannas, regardless of Elune's intent it would've been the most logical thing to intervene before she launches herself to catch Sylvannas so they never get close. If Elune is 'protecting' Tyrande, you don't depower your warrior next to the person who is going to kill them. If Elune wants Sylvannas to escape, you don't give Tyrande the power boost she's asking for to get to Sylvannas flying away. If Elune had second thoughts about Tyrande blowing herself up after she allowed them to grapple, you don't depower Tyrande to the point where she's in danger as you're just having Tyrande jump out of the pan and into the fryer. All this leaves aside the whole history of self-destrutive tendencies of Night Warriors and Elune's apparent disregard and lack of intervention in the past, which makes the situation even more bizarre.

    My general problem is that while I'd like to expect a well, thought-out narrative that can have surprises like you suggest, the writing up to this point doesn't really support it. I'd be more inclined to see deus ex machina to 'fix' narrative issues at this point.
    I mean that does come across as a bit nitpicky, but I get it; it would have been better if Elune's intentions had been clearer, let's say, she depowers Tyrande, but the moment Sylvanas attempts to harm her, she shields her, but then there's no doubt about Elune's intentions, right?

    So right now we have the question as to *why* Elune depowered Tyrande, and AFAIK, the story (in the PTR) implies we will get that answer, so I think I can't give a final opinion until that plays out. I'm really holding my final judgement until that face to face between Elune and Tyrande, and neing honest, while I hope it answer things satisfactorily, I also know it won't be everything I would want, because this is WoW after all.

  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    Again, that supposition only works if you don't really think of Elune as a character with no growth. Did she only really cared when she saw the reality that Tyrande's life was actually going to end instead of being just an intellectual awareness of it, in other words, the realization of her real attachment to Tyrande? Or it could also be that Elune, who has always favored her, thought that all of her subjects she could have survived, but realized that at the end not even her could.

    The whole "makes no sense" doesn't work as a criticism because we simply don't know Elune's motivations. And I will say that those might end up actually sucking, but for a character that has yet to make an actual appearance, it's an unfair criticism -for now-
    But that is a problem in and of itself with the current storytelling. There is way to much we don't know, and Blizzard probably doesn't know either, because the things we are told are then blatantly ignored.

    Like being constantly told that the Night Warrior transformation is fatal and that all previous incarnations have died only for Elune to, apparently, go 'lol nope' this one time.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  20. #300
    Tyrande literally did nothing?

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