Spoiler I can't believe it. Tyrande did something.

[Godric]

Wait, she did something? Did we watch the same video?

[geco]

Wait, she did something? Did we watch the same video?

See if you see the story so far.
Fighting and losing for Tyrande is an achievement.

Until now he only watched and threw insults.

[Hero2Zer0]

Thanks, I hate it.

just gonna repost my post from the other thread

I honestly think Nat was her first actual love, I can't remember everything but i don't believe she has ever loved anyone else. Its a new emotion for her and after seeing what she did to Manduin I have an inclination she regrets some things.

[Alex86el]

"she didn't look stupid"
....she threw away her weapons and tried to choke an undead.

as for Sylvanas... she said a line and escaped unharmed.
whaaat?? she never does that! lol -_-

As for Elune, she is just lame, once again. No respect from me.

[DemonHunter18]

take a chill pill guys

[Eazy]

-snip-

Not gonna waste my time answering everything in that wall of text. Just gonna try to be as simple as possible. So it would be easier for narrow-minded people:

1. The game and the other sources of canon(such as books/short novels/comics) can't show us everything that happened.
2. The newer the source the higher priority it has.
3. If something happened in the game, and then happened in the book - it's retconned(see the point above).
4. Everything that the book isn't explaining and is explained in the game is canon.

So:
Book presented something slightly different than the game, because with it you are almost limitless. In fact, you're only limited to the words, which can explain almost everything. While the game needs models, voice-overs, needed our participation(as players) etc.

So, if you're following up - the book just shown us that Sylvanas was able to throw Malfurion, while in the game it's exactly shown that Stormrage was able to overpower Sylvanas in a fight.

Throwing each others is just a normal part of a fight, that doesn't show or prove that someone is actually stronger(and it's a fallacy believing so, especially that we've seen such events in the game before). Same with the characters speeches(which is even more ridiculous thing to believe , I mean like even basic villians from the kids cartoons do so).

Malfurion was able to bring Sylvanas to her knees when they were fighting. It's not explained in the novel because it's written from the Saurfang perspective. Varok isn't omnipresent(which should be already obvious), so he wasn't able to see it on his own eyes. He just saw Malfurion and decided to throw the axe, he didn't see what was happening before... but in the game it's shown that Sylvanas is clearly losing(which is canon).
And that's all. That's fact, and facts don't care about opinions. Especially some kind of headcanoning of obtuse people.

[Jackstraw]

1. The game and the other sources of canon(such as books/short novels/comics) can't show us everything that happened.
2. The newer the source the higher priority it has.
3. If something happened in the game, and then happened in the book - it's retconned(see the point above).
4. Everything that the book isn't explaining and is explained in the game is canon.

So basically given contradicting information you're nitpicking the part that makes you right?
Convenient.

[Darth-Piekus]

So basically given contradicting information you're nitpicking the part that makes you right?
Convenient.

He simply says that both are canon. The game describes a scene where Varok doesn't see what's really happening but just the back of Malfurion. He doesn't see the state of Sylvannas at all. She might as well be on her knees and that might have been a last attack in order for her to get Malfurion off of her. In the game Sylvannas is on her knees sending one last attack and that might have been the description in the book.

I know that some people don't want their favorite waifu to lose now that with the borrowed power of the Jailer became somewhat relevant but she is not an invinsible goddess of destruction.

[Jackstraw]

He simply says that both are canon. The game describes a scene where Varok doesn't see what's really happening but just the back of Malfurion. He doesn't see the state of Sylvannas at all. She might as well be on her knees and that might have been a last attack in order for her to get Malfurion off of her. In the game Sylvannas is on her knees sending one last attack and that might have been the description in the book.

I know that some people don't want their favorite waifu to lose now that with the borrowed power of the Jailer became somewhat relevant but she is not an invinsible goddess of destruction.

I don't appreciate when somebody puts words in my mouth, and find it a pretty abhorrent practice.

This point being clear, the lore always operated on the premise that everything is canon and the books supersede everything. This is why I find the interpretation a little convenient given everything we know about Sylvanas' power ups.

For the records, we're arguing about a quip so poorly written it's astonishing, but Malfurion can't lose in a direct confrontation ever against anyone given how he's been posititoned in the ever so useless power ranks.

[Darth-Piekus]

I don't appreciate when somebody puts words in my mouth, and find it a pretty abhorrent practice.

This point being clear, the lore always operated on the premise that everything is canon and the books supersede everything. This is why I find the interpretation a little convenient given everything we know about Sylvanas' power ups.

For the records, we're arguing about a quip so poorly written it's astonishing, but Malfurion can't lose in a direct confrontation ever against anyone given how he's been posititoned in the ever so useless power ranks.

That is not my intention. Those are the tactics of other individuals who do that all the time on this forum. As to the battle description has Blizzard ever mentioned if the book trums the game? Do they even contradict each other if they describe the same scene?

[LemonDemonGirl]

At least this cutscene brings us memes.

I knew that moment was going to be made into a version of this meme when I first saw the cutscene lol

- - - Updated - - -

As for why she was choking her, maybe she didn't want her to scream and get away?

[Specialka]

I knew that moment was going to be made into a version of this meme when I first saw the cutscene lol

- - - Updated - - -

As for why she was choking her, maybe she didn't want her to scream and get away?

Nah she was choking her either for ripping her head off (as she said she wanted her head just beforehand) or killing her by choking her (since it seems that Blizzard is not very consistent with undead and how to kill them).

[Darth-Piekus]

Nah she was choking her either for ripping her head off (as she said she wanted her head just beforehand) or killing her by choking her (since it seems that Blizzard is not very consistent with undead and how to kill them).

Technically undead can't drown as they don't breathe but Sylvannas was surely dying right there from choking. I don't know how that works.

[Jackstraw]

Technically undead can't drown as they don't breathe but Sylvannas was surely dying right there from choking. I don't know how that works.

Shitty writing, for lack of a better term. Let's wait for the retcon where Sylvanas has now features comparable to a living and is not possessing her own body anymore.

[Darth-Piekus]

Shitty writing, for lack of a better term. Let's wait for the retcon where Sylvanas has now features comparable to a living and is not possessing her own body anymore.

If she is possesing her own body how does turning into a banshee works? Or flying? Or making her body turning into mist?

[Jackstraw]

If she is possesing her own body how does turning into a banshee works? Or flying? Or making her body turning into mist?

Magic, possibly. Still, her real body is the banshee, not the elf. In her current goth phase I'm not really sure, however.

[Combatbutler]

Technically undead can't drown as they don't breathe but Sylvannas was surely dying right there from choking. I don't know how that works.

This whole scene has just one reason, drama. The entire fight can be summed up as a battle between brain damaged troglodytes.

[Tanaria]

I find it ironic that a daughter from Suramar (Tyrande) and a daughter from Silvermoon (Sylvanas), were trying to kill each other, yet the current leaders (Thalyssra and Lor'themar) and peoples of those respective nations are on extremely positive terms with each other.

[Mehrunes]

Not gonna waste my time answering everything in that wall of text. Just gonna try to be as simple as possible. So it would be easier for narrow-minded people:

1. The game and the other sources of canon(such as books/short novels/comics) can't show us everything that happened.
2. The newer the source the higher priority it has.
3. If something happened in the game, and then happened in the book - it's retconned(see the point above).
4. Everything that the book isn't explaining and is explained in the game is canon.

Please do tell me more how I'm "narrowminded" (or, more accurately, how you desperately need to portray me as such in order to hide that the strength of your arguments is non-existent) when you can't even stick to your own list here. Because no matter how hard you may want to hide behind point #1 and pretend this automatically vindicates you (because the rest of your own points conveniently take a break whenever you do that), the situation at hand falls under point #3.

We have two takes on an event happening at a specific point in time, i.e. immediately before Saurfang throws his axe. Those two takes are different and show different things happening (contrary to your earlier fantasies) at the same time. In game Saurfang reacts to seeing how Sylvanas is facing Malfurion alone (because, contrary to your new fantasies, Sylvanas is in his line of sight in the game) and how she's on her knees. Malfurion doesn't move at all from where he was before Saurfang even appeared. Sylvanas doesn't cause any explosions of Darkness. In the story Malfurion gets hauled the hell away from Sylvanas and slams into the ground near Saurfang and Saurfang cuts him down on instinct without even realizing what he's doing. Ergo, there's a conflict. Ergo, the older piece of lore is retconned by the newer one.

So:
Book presented something slightly different than the game, because with it you are almost limitless. In fact, you're only limited to the words, which can explain almost everything. While the game needs models, voice-overs, needed our participation(as players) etc.

Uh-huh. Obviously the game has no knockback or explosions visual effects and that's why it didn't show that happening. Those pesky game limitations.

So, if you're following up - the book just shown us that Sylvanas was able to throw Malfurion, while in the game it's exactly shown that Stormrage was able to overpower Sylvanas in a fight.

Throwing each others is just a normal part of a fight, that doesn't show or prove that someone is actually stronger(and it's a fallacy believing so, especially that we've seen such events in the game before). Same with the characters speeches(which is even more ridiculous thing to believe , I mean like even basic villians from the kids cartoons do so).

Oh, for god's sake. How many times are you going to down-play the distance Malfurion was thrown by Sylvanas, while somehow pretending at the same time you're in the right here? I mean, it's still better than when you went all the way to trying to compare it to a mere shove, but it's still disingenuous nonsense. Malfurion went flying dozens of yards. Because of a magical explosion that was strong enough to outright collapse trees (or perhaps Malfurion's body itself collapsed those trees by slamming into them on the way, it's not entirely clear). That would have required a tremendous amounts of force that would have had a devastating effect on the body. Even before the subsequent impact of the fall at the end of it. That's not a normal part of a fight by any stretch. The fact that you have to present it as such and downplay the shit out of what happened (or make pointless comparisons to DBZ, without paying a sliver of attention to how self-contradictory those two deflections are) exposes your argumentative bankruptcy in this regard.

Malfurion was able to bring Sylvanas to her knees when they were fighting. It's not explained in the novel because it's written from the Saurfang perspective. Varok isn't omnipresent(which should be already obvious), so he wasn't able to see it on his own eyes. He just saw Malfurion and decided to throw the axe, he didn't see what was happening before... but in the game it's shown that Sylvanas is clearly losing(which is canon).

Except in-game Sylvanas is in Saurfang's line of sight and her fight with Malfurion takes place in a clearing. Yet another desperate attempt at hand-waving the disparities, yet another miss. And even if you were right on that, which you are not, that doesn't explain how the explosion of Darkness that threw Malfurion away is somehow not visible to the player even though they usually come from a direction that offers them a much better viewing angle (and then can move around as they please for even better results). But I guess the convenience to your argument is so strong that it transcends reality itself and the player was selectively blinded in that moment.

And that's all. That's fact, and facts don't care about opinions. Especially some kind of headcanoning of obtuse people.

Spare me your baseless smug posturing, you goddamn hypocrite. You can't even abide by your list even though it is merely four points long and you somehow think you have any standing here? Let alone standing strong enough to put yourself on some kind of moral high ground? Sorry to burst your self-aggrandizing bubble, but that exists only inside your head.

Because it's just as @Jackstraw said. You're conveniently nitpicking the parts suitable to your argument when faced with pieces of lore that contradict each other. And then just hide behind a general "but no source can show all the story" platitude, even in situations where that doesn't apply. Because for all your pretense that you acknowledge that A Good War takes precedence in case of conflict because that's how canon works, this is just empty lip service.

The moment you hit a snag with your grand argument, you throw all that pretense away and try to bend over backwards to get to a point where the contradicting pieces of lore magically don't contradict themselves with things like "the disparity between the two is caused by muh Saurfang's perspective that isn't actually obscured in the game, because in game the fight takes place in a clearing and Sylvanas is in his line of sight" or "lemme pull a significant time gap that was covered only by the game because reasons (even though I'll then talk about how the game has more limitations while the story is more free because it only relies on words) out of the nether, even though both takes show what happened right before Saurfang threw his axe, i.e. at the same time". Or, for bonus lol points, scraping the bottom of the barrel with "ackshually, the explosion may have been caused by an Old God that popped out of my behind, because I'm this desperate to downplay Sylvanas' power" like you did in earlier topics where you tried to push this hot take of yours.

The part about "headcanoning of obtuse people" is particularly hilarious from someone who wants to pretend:
1. that Sylvanas literally couldn't kill limping, poisoned, elderly Genn on the verge of collapse and with his back turned away to her because his back (in human form, no less) is apparently the most durable substance on Azeroth;
2. that the same Genn could totally kill Sylvanas with one hit had he attacked her in a stealthier manner even though he did land a direct hit on her face - with the very same paws that easily killed Felguards shortly before - yet didn't even leave a scratch;
3. that Sylvanas exploded Undercity just because she couldn't handle Jaina, even though she started to set the preparations for it even before Jaina joined the fight since she didn't coordinate with the rest of the Alliance and despite the fact that she was trying to trap as many Alliance soldiers in an explosion as possible (with Blizzard outright calling Lordaeron a Horde victory because of that in pre-Dazar'Alor commentary);
4. and (as per the earlier threads in which you pushed those hot takes of yours) that Sylvanas not using a certain canon ability of hers in a given fight means she can't use that ability, because the concept of choosing not to use something is lost on you.

He simply says that both are canon. The game describes a scene where Varok doesn't see what's really happening but just the back of Malfurion. He doesn't see the state of Sylvannas at all. She might as well be on her knees and that might have been a last attack in order for her to get Malfurion off of her. In the game Sylvannas is on her knees sending one last attack and that might have been the description in the book.

I know that some people don't want their favorite waifu to lose now that with the borrowed power of the Jailer became somewhat relevant but she is not an invinsible goddess of destruction.

Yeah, sorry to break it to you but Goebbels was wrong and you won't transmute your lies into the truth by simply repeating them a certain amount of times. Sylvanas is within Saurfang's line of sight in the game, so there's no reason whatsoever to claim that he couldn't see anything in game. It's almost as if the in-game version of the fight took place in a clearing with nothing obstructing the view or something.

This also doesn't explain how the player doesn't see Malfurion getting knocked away a significant distance because of an explosion, even though we can watch it from any angle we want. Instead in the totally not contradictory and equally as canon game version Malfurion doesn't move an inch from the position he was at when we arrived. Because contrary to your other lie, in game Sylvanas does not send any last attack of any kind when Saurfang arrived.

And your second paragraph gives your game away. Because in the real world it's about how you're the one who can't handle Sylvanas being strong due to your hatred of the character, to the point that you have to pretend that Sylvanas only became relevant in terms of power because of the Jailer. Even though the only additional powers we've seen her receive after her pact with Jailer were magical chains and a blast of death magic.

Yet before that she was already breaking armor and bones with her voice alone on an army scale, which made even Arthas concerned (at the time he had complete control over her and didn't even entertain the idea that this would ever change). And silencing spell-casting even when performed by someone with all the power of the Sunwell acting as their personal battery. Not to mention the durability of her body and her physical strength alone allowing her to tear animals apart with her bare hands. This "totally not relevant prior to Jailer" character was strong enough that your "powerhouse" Anduin (whose greatest combat feat prior to Jailer making him his servant was defeating an unnamed Troll) thought she could kill him in an instant if she wanted to.

And your only response to all of the above is the totally logical argument that Sylvanas not using a certain ability of hers in a specific fight means it has been retconned.

[Eazy]

So basically given contradicting information you're nitpicking the part that makes you right?
Convenient.

Not really. Both scenes aren't really contradicting with each other(in terms of who was winning the fight).

Saufang didn't see the whole fight, he didn't see what happened seconds(minutes?) before the axe-throw accident, while in the game it's exactly shown that Sylvanas was kneeling and moaning with pain. As I wrote it plenty of times - Blizzard wouldn't do such a thing if they didn't mean it.

No matter what anyone says - Blizzard shown us that Malfurion was overpowering Sylvanas in the game, and just shown that she was able to throw him in the short novel. That's all, nothing more, nothing less.
That's the reason why it's fully right to say that someone is using his head-canon whenever he says that Sylvanas was winning.

Things that aren't shown in the other canon sources(such as books, novels, cut-scenes etc.) but are shown in the game - are canon, that's a fact(unless they're contradicting with each other). We didn't see that Sylvanas was winning the fight AT ALL(not in the novel, not in the game), and thinking like that is a pure fallacy.

He simply says that both are canon. The game describes a scene where Varok doesn't see what's really happening but just the back of Malfurion. He doesn't see the state of Sylvannas at all. She might as well be on her knees and that might have been a last attack in order for her to get Malfurion off of her. In the game Sylvannas is on her knees sending one last attack and that might have been the description in the book.

I know that some people don't want their favorite waifu to lose now that with the borrowed power of the Jailer became somewhat relevant but she is not an invinsible goddess of destruction.

Thank you. I don't know how simplier could I actually write it.

Some people are too obtuse to understand that. I am not going to recourse to their strategy and do kids like tantrums. I don't really want to fall so low.

This whole scene has just one reason, drama. The entire fight can be summed up as a battle between brain damaged troglodytes.

Totally agree.
One member of the forum quoted me and said "If you think that Sylvanas is imbecile then why Tyrande was doing also stupid thing?"
And I was like "wtf? Do you think we're comparing our favourite characters and want me to defend my waifu or what? Because I also think that Tyrande isn't sharpest tool in the shed".