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  1. #101
    Overwhelming?.. As a veteran player who has been out of the retail loop for a while, sort of.. but after spending a couple of weeks, I'm getting the hang of, so not quite as much?

    My initial 9.0 Shadowlands experience was a short lived couple weeks, leveled to cap, quit soon after confirming to myself it was more of the BFA same - just not doing it for me.. So bit rusty when I came back for 9.1 the past couple of weeks (bit of a stint in TBC classic, now bored, not my fav xpac)... Anyway, did some Torghast etc, grinding renowned for flying, it was okay for a while I guess, but not really anything exciting enough to keep me playing.

    Having forgotten about SL's release systems, and having new 9.1 stuff on top to learn I guess was overwhelming at first. But then again TBC's attunement hoop jumping and how focused on instance grinding it is initially also overwhelmed (maybe just getting too old for this ****) After a while did start to understand most of the SL systems/currencies etc.

    Do I think the glut of systems, currencies and incremental player power coming from so many different sources (other than straight up talents/gear) are mostly a needless waste of time/energy which don't add much to gameplay and would be much better simplified? For sure.

    I feel a problem with all these currencies and systems is that describing them to anyone outside of current wow players starts to sound a bit like Rockwell Automation's Retroencabulator. That to me can be a very bad thing if wanting to attract new players to the game.

  2. #102
    Immortal roahn the warlock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyron View Post
    Hey all, what the title says.

    Personally, it's come to a point this expansion that I no longer feel like playing. I've been trying to get in the mood for S2 M+ and the new raid but each time I think about legendaries, soulbinds, conduits, renown and now shards of domination I feel like it's not worth the effort. Past expansions added one or two systems over all the patches, but I think this time is getting ridiculous.

    How do you guys feel about it?
    No I 100% agree. Blizzard has a problem with this and they can't get past it. FFXIV has like, what? 9 specs, no talent systems. And their game is loved by many.

    Blizzard has 32 specs, 3 talent systems for each, and they have to be balanced for competitive raiding, dungeons, and pvp. That's.... 288 different "Specs" that need to be balanced. FFXIV has 9. and we wonder why patches take so fuckin long to come out. That's why Ghostcrawler tried so hard to make them all play the same. Blizz has said balancing is what takes the longest.

    Now, I'm not saying I don't appreciate the sheer amount of different stuffs you can do in WoW. But I wonder if it's worth the massive workload it puts on the developers, who could be doing something else. And when you lift the veil. hardly any of them really effect gameplay. If they don't effect gameplay they shouldn't be there.
    Last edited by roahn the warlock; 2021-07-10 at 03:25 PM.
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    World of Warcraft started life as a Computer Roleplaying Game, where part of the fun of the game experience was pretending to be your character. Stuff like applying poisons and eating food enhanced the verisimilitude of the experience of playing a fantasy character in another world. Now that game has changed to become a tactical arcade lobby game.

  3. #103
    Scarab Lord Motorman's Avatar
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    I decided to change covenant because Night Fae were super boring. After questing for hours on end with no real progress + all the new patch info + all the catch up I have t do + all the things I must study to stay relevant in the very basic gaming I do nowdays, yes I can say its an avalanche and its really overwhelming.
    WoW forums in a nutshell:
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    So I was using a gold dupe hack. I don't know why i was banned for this. It is so unfair.
    People need an incentive to play content. "Its fun!" is simply not enough.
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  4. #104
    Fluffy Kitten Aurora's Avatar
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    The worst part of the avalanche of system is they're all temporary. It's hard to find motivation to learn, understand and master them when they're probably going to be overhauled in 6 months and removed in 15 months.

    I'm at a point of just reading checklists and collecting currency and rep without caring to understand why I want them. I just presume there's something on tier 5 or exhalted or whatever that I'll want and I'll think about it when I get there.

  5. #105
    They are relatively straightforward.

    Soulbinds/conduits are like a mini talent tree and legendaries is basically a talent in gear from.

  6. #106
    You know nothing of spam of new systems if you didn't do what I did last year. I (re-)entered the game right before the prepatch of 9.x and the amount of spam I had to endure to level up the character through end-game was comical.

    First of all the quest log was completely full all the time; I was running 5mans and subzones and dailies etc. from at least 4 different major patches; it's as if the game doesn't trust itself being good and it tries to spam you with irrelevancy.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    No I 100% agree. Blizzard has a problem with this and they can't get past it. FFXIV has like, what? 9 specs, no talent systems. And their game is loved by many.

    Blizzard has 32 specs, 3 talent systems for each, and they have to be balanced for competitive raiding, dungeons, and pvp. That's.... 288 different "Specs" that need to be balanced. FFXIV has 9. and we wonder why patches take so fuckin long to come out. That's why Ghostcrawler tried so hard to make them all play the same. Blizz has said balancing is what takes the longest.

    Now, I'm not saying I don't appreciate the sheer amount of different stuffs you can do in WoW. But I wonder if it's worth the massive workload it puts on the developers, who could be doing something else. And when you lift the veil. hardly any of them really effect gameplay. If they don't effect gameplay they shouldn't be there.
    And still they deem it necessary to add even more systems on top of that to make the situation even worse.

    FFXIV has 4 tank specs, 3 healing specs and 10 specs. No talents and no interlocking systems, just gear. That's why their highest performer is 10% ahead of the bottom one and they can spend their time on developing content instead.

  8. #108
    No, doesn't take long to learn and get a grasp of. Adapt and overcome.

    I would rather see more permanent shit. Like class abilities that we could keep next expansion, sure, but the current systems aint a problem

  9. #109
    I am totally not overwhelmed by the amounts of systems in the game...

    ...because I stopped playing the game.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
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  10. #110
    Immortal Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rageonit View Post
    Out of curiosity, cause I'm away and can't play the new patch yet - what about conduits? Do new wq's drop high level item versions right off the bat?
    No, gotta progress renown to get higher ilvl variants.

    Currently high ilvl variants of Conduits are mainly available via the Raid and M+. A few from PvP.
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  11. #111
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaneLivesInDeath View Post
    Not overwhelmed.

    Just overall frustrated with variations of the same systems as before. Said systems being frustrating grinds that are purposely time gated.
    Time gating, whether out in the open or disguised as limited drops from content, is something that every MMO will have. Either way you run stuff multiple times for the reward. I could argue (but won't) that gating on a per week basis is actually better. You can plan around it and the end is deterministic. Waiting for a drop that may never drop is for me subjectively worse. People have different ideas about that and that's fine. Either way, the path to the reward is gated.

    As for frustrations with variations and iterations on previous systems, yeah. It's all a bit like moving deck chairs around.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2021-07-10 at 08:06 PM.
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  12. #112
    I do. I took one look at all the crap at 60 and said, nope, I'm not doing any of this. I pushed through the covenant campaign because I wanted flying, but that's it. I haven't even leveled up another alt to 60, which is unheard of for me as an altoholic.
    "People with depression score higher on tests of realism. Intelligence is positively correlated with mental illness and suicide. What this indicates is that if the mind understands too much about reality, it wants to destroy itself. Human life is existential horror."

  13. #113
    Yes, I thought about actually playing 9.1 but thought about all the systems ans timegating, and it just wasn't worth it to me. I am enjoying BC classic though.

  14. #114
    Herald of the Titans Nathreim's Avatar
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    Overwhelmed? No. A waist of dev time that is unappealing to players because its boring? YES!

  15. #115
    Not that there are too many systems, but that there is a colossally, and unnecessarily complicated meta system that everything connects to in this needlessly complicated web. Systems that should be isolated from each other are forced to feed into each other.

  16. #116
    Herald of the Titans Advent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    No I 100% agree. Blizzard has a problem with this and they can't get past it. FFXIV has like, what? 9 specs, no talent systems. And their game is loved by many.

    Blizzard has 32 specs, 3 talent systems for each, and they have to be balanced for competitive raiding, dungeons, and pvp. That's.... 288 different "Specs" that need to be balanced. FFXIV has 9. and we wonder why patches take so fuckin long to come out. That's why Ghostcrawler tried so hard to make them all play the same. Blizz has said balancing is what takes the longest.

    Now, I'm not saying I don't appreciate the sheer amount of different stuffs you can do in WoW. But I wonder if it's worth the massive workload it puts on the developers, who could be doing something else. And when you lift the veil. hardly any of them really effect gameplay. If they don't effect gameplay they shouldn't be there.
    Idk about you, but part of the reason I come back to wow is because each class has various specs I can play. Would have loved to be a dps Dark Knight in FFXIV, or a class like an enhancement shaman over there but the game's play style customization is just too rigid. I don't care about "balance".

  17. #117
    Not quite overwhelmed but annoyed that in the end these systems mean nothing by next expansion since it's borrowed power instead of actually building up on character to use into the future.

  18. #118
    I'm not overwhelmed in the sense that I look at it and say "this is too complicated for me to understand" but overwhelmed because I look at it and say "I just don't care anymore"

    Bellular had it right when he said Blizzard is teaching their players to not play the game.
    Common sense is not common at all.

  19. #119
    Yeah, there's just way too much crap in the game. Hence why I play classic, where the "systems" are mostly just reputations and raid attunements.

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