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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Rekz View Post
    Blizz has treated Alliance like garbage for the better part of a decade but the true irony is that Blizzard's downfall will be the result of their treatment of Alliance. Blizz is in a corner right now with their horde vs horde bgs but it's not gonna save them. Too little too late for a company as despicable as Blizzard.

    Hey, you did it to yourselves. Don't blame activision, or anyone else. You did it to yourselves and karma's a bitch. You get what you deserve.
    This is a great change for everyone, wtf are you even talking about?

    You just sound like a salty Alliance player, looks like you don't have an actual solution for this problem besides that blizzard should give the Alliance some big advantage or just "let" the alliance have better queue times, because fuck Horde.

    Everyone gets to be able to play BG's, no matter what their faction is. This will also lead to less ganking by Hordes in the open world as they will queue faster for BG's.
    Last edited by RobertMugabe; 2021-07-02 at 06:29 AM.

  2. #42
    Bloodsail Admiral Xykotic's Avatar
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    Nah. This is definitely a problem Blizzard could have dealt with better. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

    They could have removed racials from the start
    They could have blocked people from exceeding a 60/40 server split
    They could have given incentives to play Alliance.
    They could have allowed free horde -> alliance transfers.

    Nobody was going to reroll another faction and leave behind friends, guilds and massive amounts of invested time and effort. Asking people to do that is pretty much just a veiled way of asking them to quit the game.

  3. #43
    God... i am so happy i've never cared about PvP in this game...

  4. #44
    Elemental Lord Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    You know what a better change would have been? Not fucking over one half of your playerbase.
    Unfortunately this happens in multiple mmos...I play one with four factions and you'd think there is only one
    #WithoutRespectWeReject

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Ticj View Post
    If they're going to outright put retail systems in to classic, they should just nip this problem in the bud and just remove racials from arenas. It will solve this entire problem.
    I think a lot of people are fooling themselves into believeing that PvP side is the only factor in this equation.

    First off, the situation with "superior racials" isn't as clear cut in Arena as one might believe.
    Perception is a flatout broken racial in Arena and gives any comp with a Human a massive edge against any rogue team, because you can effectively deny the enemy team the opener.
    When you play something such as RMP, this is naturally a huge deal, as the usual RMP opener is:

    Rogue saps someone.
    Rogue opens with Cheap shot.

    With Perception, your chances are pretty solid to deny them both, when you manage to sap the Rogue of the enemy team, you can easily turn the tables on them and ensure a win.
    Denying the opener against RMP is so strong in TBC, it's like half of the deal already - because of a fucking racial.

    In 2v2, it's even bigger, when you play 2v2 with a nonhuman rogue vs. Humans, your chances at victory are pretty slim because recovering from a lost opener in 2v2 is near impossible.

    Stoneform, while not as strong as in Classic (because it can no longer remove Blind), is also nuts, 10 seconds immunity against Poison & Bleeds is again a big deal.
    When you're being focused by the rogue, you're immune against wound poison (MS effect), which is so strong because MS effects are absolutely broken in PvP, your healer is pretty much 50% more effective while Stoneform is active.

    You can also use it to remove crippling poison.
    Rogue wants to peel you?
    Press Stoneform for an undispelable freedom vs. Crippling Poison.

    Huge as a Warrior when you focus a priest, as rogue needs to invest a lot more (Blind / Kidney) to peel you.

    Escape Artist, while slightly nerfed in TBC, remains also solid.
    The ability to remove snares and roots is big vs. Frost Mages, as they heavily rely on Frostnova to kill people.

    Finally, Shadowmeld.
    Probably the most niche, but still decent for Arena.
    Healer needs to drink?
    Go in some corner and use Shadowmeld, enemy can no longer target you on range and if they didn't keep track of your position, they're just fucked.

    The situation in Arena isn't as clearcut, Alliance does hold some advantages against Horde.
    If you don't believe that, then i will remind you that perception got nuked in Wotlk (one of the few racials that got completely removed because it was too OP) and Stoneform nerfed as well - it's not just Horde racials that got nerfed.

    The reason why i believe Horde is more dominant is because of PvE.
    The situation there clearly favors the Horde.

    Horde has:
    Blood Fury (Orc, solid for every class)
    Command (Broken for BM)
    Berserking (good for every class)

    Meanwhile, the only noteworthy Alliance racial is Heroic / Inspiring Presence, which is 1% hit and requires a certain Draenei of a given class in every group to get the full benefit.

    Add to this that Horde received the most popular race in TBC (Blood elves), one can see why Horde is more dominant.

    1.Solid PvP racials
    2.Superior PvE racials
    3.Most popular race

    Horde dominance won't go away because you neuter 1., 2. & 3. still remain and likely a bigger reason why a lot of people chose to Horde.
    If you don't believe that, then you ignore the history why Horde became the more dominant faction in the first place, because from Wotlk to Legion, Alliance was objectively better at PvP due to Every man for Himself.
    Neutering racials just in PvP won't do shit, if you want a more balanced situation as far as racials are concerned, Alliance needs better PvE racials.

    Making Heroic / Inspiring Presence raidwide might already be a huge boon, as Alliance then can reliably gear themselves, taking the 1% hit from Draenei into account.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2021-07-02 at 07:05 AM.

  6. #46
    Elemental Lord Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaqthefat View Post
    That will never happen. Your queue's are always going to be near instant.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I remember the days when the alliance was unbelievably favored. I bet you didn't care during that time that one faction was clearly superior.
    Since when? I've been playing since Vanilla and Alliance was never really favored...after BC Horde racials clearly were at a advantaged and only took off as the game went on and everyone faction changed. They keep giving Alliance a ton of horse mounts and Horde gets a wide selection. Our leaders are such pushovers they easily decide to give mercy to the homicidal maniac who killed countless thousands. They killed off the one leader who was a decent balance of intelligence and aggression...

    The Horde has committed numerous war crimes...used weapons of mass destruction...and under Garrosh even slaughtered their own, what do they get? A slap on the wrist

    Oh I forgot...we had a slight advantage in AV....oh wow, so amazing, such awesome!
    #WithoutRespectWeReject

  7. #47
    As much as I hate modern Blizzard, this is just a smart change. And only extreme beta meta boys will change faction to horde now, who cares.

  8. #48
    Fucking retarded change and I hope they remove it. What's the point of these servers if they keep changing shit? Playing on the "pvp" faction that allows u to control the world, comes with the downside of longer queues for bgs. Guess there's no downside to horde anymore tho. Better open world, larger playerbase to raid with, just as fast bgs.

    Get rdy for dual spec. "We've monitored how long it takes for dps to get into groups, and to fix this, we are allowing dual spec so more tanks will be available "

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalarm View Post
    Uh what? So Alliance players will keep have fast queues and horde players will be able to actually play BG's... How is that bad? I missed something?
    Alliance players being sad that horde will be able to do bg's without waiting 1-1.5 hours, nothing more. The were actually happy and found it fair that horde got to wait over 1 hour and be thrown with a premade and lose instantly.

    The only and one thing alliance should get to complain is if thr outnumbering is so high that they get ganked all the time in the world, and nothing more. When you had 55-45 ratios in vanilla it was all good, now that there is 55-45 the other way it's the end of the world. Not the horde players fault that you have the people but they choose to not do anything.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by kranur View Post
    Alliance players being sad that horde will be able to do bg's without waiting 1-1.5 hours, nothing more. The were actually happy and found it fair that horde got to wait over 1 hour and be thrown with a premade and lose instantly.

    The only and one thing alliance should get to complain is if thr outnumbering is so high that they get ganked all the time in the world, and nothing more. When you had 55-45 ratios in vanilla it was all good, now that there is 55-45 the other way it's the end of the world. Not the horde players fault that you have the people but they choose to not do anything.
    you say it like it doesnt have bigger implications. friends and I specifically rolled alliance characters to get away from the que, now they are all leaving to go back to their old toons. So now im slowly going to have a diminished pvp population to do arena / premades with.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Video Games View Post
    Yeah I'm sure people are going to spend another 500 hours to level and gear up, leave guildies and friends behind and leave all their gold behind because queues might go up a few minutes
    +1

    On forums everyone claims that all alliance players are going to reroll horde

    I see this as highly unlikely lol, the only benefit is having a slight edge in pvp... Atm I play in a PVE server and yea ppl do BG and stuff and enjoy PVP but not as much to reroll horde only because they have better pvp racials

    HOWEVER, I think that fixing horde queue times by enabling Horde vs Horde BGs is quite sloppy.... I would have prefered to give alliance some kind of boost, like better pvp racials or better pvp gear just to balance things out

    Horde vs Horde is really weird from a roleplaying perspective

    Furthermore, factions are absolutely crucial lol, it's one of the main drivers of lore

  12. #52
    Even fucking private servers have a better understanding of their TBC servers. When they see a big % difference in the population they give out free respecs to the underdogs (alliance ofc) or 2x-3x weekends to boost up chars etc. Blizzard is a pathetic money hungry CORPORATION and would suck a dick only to not alienate 60% of their population (horde) which is understandable but not the correct approach. I hope they go down in flames

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by archelos91 View Post
    you say it like it doesnt have bigger implications. friends and I specifically rolled alliance characters to get away from the que, now they are all leaving to go back to their old toons. So now im slowly going to have a diminished pvp population to do arena / premades with.
    Sorry to say but if you did that then you are very short sighted if you thought blizz will just let 1hr+ queues stay like that. While I'm not particularly fond of the solution and would have thought they will just open faction transfers, there was little chance that that will work.
    Then I doubt many rerolled for that reason alone, sure some have but I doubt it's a significant number. There are also many servers filled with alliance players you can transfer to (this comes from someone playing on low-medium server)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by socialmaker View Post
    Even fucking private servers have a better understanding of their TBC servers. When they see a big % difference in the population they give out free respecs to the underdogs (alliance ofc) or 2x-3x weekends to boost up chars etc. Blizzard is a pathetic money hungry CORPORATION and would suck a dick only to not alienate 60% of their population (horde) which is understandable but not the correct approach. I hope they go down in flames
    Because that's just pure shit.

  14. #54
    [QUOTE=kranur;53260007]Sorry to say but if you did that then you are very short sighted if you thought blizz will just let 1hr+ queues stay like that. While I'm not particularly fond of the solution and would have thought they will just open faction transfers, there was little chance that that will work.
    Then I doubt many rerolled for that reason alone, sure some have but I doubt it's a significant number. There are also many servers filled with alliance players you can transfer to (this comes from someone playing on low-medium server)

    So short sighted using 15 years of the games history to make a choice, thinking they wouldn't break the spirit of the game for one faction. Sorry ill take my money elsewhere.

  15. #55
    Mechagnome Rekz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by socialmaker View Post
    Even fucking private servers have a better understanding of their TBC servers. When they see a big % difference in the population they give out free respecs to the underdogs (alliance ofc) or 2x-3x weekends to boost up chars etc. Blizzard is a pathetic money hungry CORPORATION and would suck a dick only to not alienate 60% of their population (horde) which is understandable but not the correct approach. I hope they go down in flames
    I agree 100%. You hit the nail on the head. The one thing I will say is that they are already on flames at this point. TBC Classic has only launched for 1 month, no major raids are out yet, and they are already having serious pop issues in both PVE and PVP.

    Blizz pulling something like this a month into the release is quite telling to say the least. The good news is that I've already received my $150 back that I paid to blizz for my 2 accounts and the reason why I received my money back so quickly is because Blizz is red flagged with several banks now due to the amount of people that have reported them for fraud and have dispute blizzard charges. TBC Classic is nothing like the Original BC and it's false advertisement.

    Blizz has nothing left but to grind the horde down and lose the last of their playerbase. It's truly delightful to see.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by spdr View Post
    When was this?
    Probably the bit where your exclusive class was much stronger except for very specific (viscidus) instances where cleansing totems were clutch through entirety of classic.

    Where the buffs a pally offered rivaled and outperformed several world buffs.

    Oh and then there's the tiny tidbit that alliance racials are already very strong for PvP - but most people parrot whatever TipsOut or some other halfinformed wannabe who's hoping to make a quick buck says over on YouTube, They'll still get Every Man For Himself in WoTLK which is miles ahead of any racial and makes humans the go-to race.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Rekz View Post
    Blizz pulling something like this a month into the release is quite telling to say the least.
    Because the situation is frankly not an issue that can just be overlooked.

    I think you'd find most people in agreement that Alliance should something in return (and if you think that PvP racials are the issue, then i have post above dealing with this) but looking at 1h+ queues and saying "Nah, it should stay that way" is just asinine.

    Because if it stays this way, then people will actually fuck off and quit the game over it, as most people are not willing to reroll for faster queues.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2021-07-02 at 12:36 PM.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Because the situation is frankly not an issue that can just be overlooked.

    I think you'd find most people in agreement that Alliance should something in return (and if you think that PvP racials are the issue, then i have post above dealing with this) but looking at 1h+ queues and saying "Nah, it should stay that way" is just asinine.

    Because if it stays this way, then people will actually fuck off and quit the game over it, as most people are not willing to reroll for faster queues.
    yeah now i get to lose 90% of my bg's and no insta que anymore. So good.

    edit: I agree they had to do something but this wasn't it, or if it is... somehow incentivize alliance to stay
    Last edited by archelos91; 2021-07-02 at 12:51 PM.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Xykotic View Post
    Nah. This is definitely a problem Blizzard could have dealt with better. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

    They could have removed racials from the start
    They could have blocked people from exceeding a 60/40 server split
    They could have given incentives to play Alliance.
    They could have allowed free horde -> alliance transfers.

    Nobody was going to reroll another faction and leave behind friends, guilds and massive amounts of invested time and effort. Asking people to do that is pretty much just a veiled way of asking them to quit the game.
    Remove racials? Really? You think that wouldn't be a bigger change than this and would have upset everyone and not just alliance.
    Faction capping? What if alliance stops from playing on that realm? and it becomes 70/30? then those remaining 30 obviously will leave. Do you disable Horde characters? xD Imagine not being able to play with friends because of that. "
    So power gains? They gave seal of blood for them already. Reasonable change, but do you want actually give alliance power over the horde? They had that in BfA and it did not help.
    This one could help I guess.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by archelos91 View Post
    yeah now i get to lose 90% of my bg's and no insta que anymore. So good.

    edit: I agree they had to do something but this wasn't it, or if it is... somehow incentivize alliance to stay
    If you loose 90% of your BGs that might have something to do with you being in the group.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by socialmaker View Post
    Even fucking private servers have a better understanding of their TBC servers. When they see a big % difference in the population they give out free respecs to the underdogs (alliance ofc) or 2x-3x weekends to boost up chars etc. Blizzard is a pathetic money hungry CORPORATION and would suck a dick only to not alienate 60% of their population (horde) which is understandable but not the correct approach. I hope they go down in flames
    That's why there are so many private servers. Oh wait, no there are not. And those who are there are either buggy af, have 300 pop or have shadowmourne on the cash shop lol.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by archelos91 View Post
    yeah now i get to lose 90% of my bg's and no insta que anymore. So good.
    First, the system is temporary, it's being tested this weekend and then will be removed.

    Second, it will still prioritize Alliance, Alliance will still have instant queues.
    Alliance vs Horde matches will still have priority over Horde vs. Horde matches.

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