The Irony of it all

[Queendom]

They obviously have been looking at the queueing data, and noticed it is very long on imbalanced servers

BGs are region-wide, queue length is the same on every server.

[Daymanmb]

I think this is a great change and one I have been asking them to implement for a very, very long time, right down to the "its just military training". Good #Change

Agreed 1000%. Without the change, Alliance will be ahead of the resilience race for a long time.

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but overall honor gain is way closer between the factions. Ally get the fast queues but pugs basically auto lose.

Sometimes queues are hours long. I doubt this holds up. And ally arent losing 100% of BGs lol. Exaggerate more...

[archelos91]

Anyone who thinks this is a good change must enjoy playing pvp servers with 80:20 horde, cause that's what this is going to cause.

[kranur]

Exactly. It may take horde longer to get into bgs, and I'm sure it sucks when they face a premade, but overall honor gain is way closer between the factions. Ally get the fast queues but pugs basically auto lose.

Now horde will get faster queues, and will gain so much more honor than average ally does.

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Every server in the same region shares cross realm battle grounds. Imbalanced servers are no different than balanced when it comes to Q times

Nice try, but allies by no means auto-lose. On the other hand, 99% of the pugs facing a premade do auto lose ... and after you wait 1.5 hours to auto-lose, that's when you have a huge problem.

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Anyone who thinks this is a good change must enjoy playing pvp servers with 80:20 horde, cause that's what this is going to cause.

Yes, I'm sure 50% of alliance will now instantly re-roll horde and re-roll alliance again in wotlk.

[archelos91]

Nice try, but allies by no means auto-lose. On the other hand, 99% of the pugs facing a premade do auto lose ... and after you wait 1.5 hours to auto-lose, that's when you have a huge problem.

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Yes, I'm sure 50% of alliance will now instantly re-roll horde and re-roll alliance again in wotlk.

pvp servers are already horde biased. Why would anyone whose interested in pvp join the faction who will have less and less people to pvp with?

[Zora-Prime]

Since when? I've been playing since Vanilla and Alliance was never really favored...after BC Horde racials clearly were at a advantaged and only took off as the game went on and everyone faction changed. They keep giving Alliance a ton of horse mounts and Horde gets a wide selection. Our leaders are such pushovers they easily decide to give mercy to the homicidal maniac who killed countless thousands. They killed off the one leader who was a decent balance of intelligence and aggression...

The Horde has committed numerous war crimes...used weapons of mass destruction...and under Garrosh even slaughtered their own, what do they get? A slap on the wrist

Oh I forgot...we had a slight advantage in AV....oh wow, so amazing, such awesome!

WTF kind of argument is that LMAO.

"oh the horde did a bad in the story. So lets nerf their racials" (???)

get a grip...

[Fathr]

pvp servers are already horde biased. Why would anyone whose interested in pvp join the faction who will have less and less people to pvp with?

Because with a huge amount of players on one faction means massive amounts of pve, huge ah huge benefits etc. Im horde on a pvp server and can allready see a shift and a difference between the two factions. Bots on pvp servers feeding the economy with mats, and buy cheap gold to be spent on gbid runs etc. A huge faction eqauls a lot less hassle in regards to everything besides world pvp and bgs. Now that the bg queus are gone. Where would you rather be playing ? The ganking side with lots of benefits or the getting ganked side where it will be near impossible to di anything. The problem will only get bigger and bigger and bigger. Well done Blizzard /golfclap.

[Kithelle]

WTF kind of argument is that LMAO.

"oh the horde did a bad in the story. So lets nerf their racials" (???)

get a grip...

No...I'm just giving numerous examples how the horde get obvious favoritism to the point they get away atrocities with no kind of punishment at all.

Game mechanics favor them....story favors them....rewards favor them...almost everything does.

[arkanon]

No...I'm just giving numerous examples how the horde get obvious favoritism to the point they get away atrocities with no kind of punishment at all.

Game mechanics favor them....story favors them....rewards favor them...almost everything does.

Out of interest, what reward favors horde? The only one I can think of is the bike, and that was the doing of the COMMUNITY, not the devs.

[jakeic]

Just going to break this down for everyone here in a reasonable manner, so go ahead and troll away.

So the issue here is that queue times are merely a symptom and not the disease. The problem is there are not enough Alliance. This change, the Horde vs Horde battlegrounds, does not attempt to solve that problem. Most people will claim that having shorter queues on the Horde side because of a Horde vs Horde bg doesn't affect the Alliance, but it does. If shorter queue times were not preferable then the Horde would not be asking for them, so it follows that Alliance having shorter queues would be a positive of playing the Alliance, with this change that positive will be removed. I think if we're being honest with ourselves we can all admit that it will not have a positive effect on the Alliance population. So what we have is a change that only makes the problem worse, and furthermore Blizzard attempted no other solution beside the most drastic, and the least palatable to the Alliance side.

That's not to mention that faction balance works as a negative feedback loop, that is to mean, that the losing side will lose people because they're losing and that those people leaving will contribute to losing more and then more people will leave because of it, we can see this in the populations of servers, for instance we saw this happen in retail where the Alliance is basically dead. We also saw it in Classic, where the server Kirtonos was a 45A/55H server in phase 1 classic and now it currently has 0 Alliance on it.

This also doesn't even take into account how this change effects the three pillars of an MMORPG, but that's not shocking that Blizzard would be blind to that harm because they basically only make changes that weaken the social and world aspect of the game in the name of gameplay. Need to look no further than the Seal of Blood change, instead of trying to make Seal of Vengeance have some use, they just throw up their hands and say fuck it, can't be solved, just give everyone everything. I don't know if this is the straw that snaps the Alliance population in this Classic re-release, but it's certainly not going to help.

[Daymanmb]

Just going to break this down for everyone here in a reasonable manner, so go ahead and troll away.

So the issue here is that queue times are merely a symptom and not the disease. The problem is there are not enough Alliance. This change, the Horde vs Horde battlegrounds, does not attempt to solve that problem. Most people will claim that having shorter queues on the Horde side because of a Horde vs Horde bg doesn't affect the Alliance, but it does. If shorter queue times were not preferable then the Horde would not be asking for them, so it follows that Alliance having shorter queues would be a positive of playing the Alliance, with this change that positive will be removed. I think if we're being honest with ourselves we can all admit that it will not have a positive effect on the Alliance population. So what we have is a change that only makes the problem worse, and furthermore Blizzard attempted no other solution beside the most drastic, and the least palatable to the Alliance side.

That's not to mention that faction balance works as a negative feedback loop, that is to mean, that the losing side will lose people because they're losing and that those people leaving will contribute to losing more and then more people will leave because of it, we can see this in the populations of servers, for instance we saw this happen in retail where the Alliance is basically dead. We also saw it in Classic, where the server Kirtonos was a 45A/55H server in phase 1 classic and now it currently has 0 Alliance on it.

This also doesn't even take into account how this change effects the three pillars of an MMORPG, but that's not shocking that Blizzard would be blind to that harm because they basically only make changes that weaken the social and world aspect of the game in the name of gameplay. Need to look no further than the Seal of Blood change, instead of trying to make Seal of Vengeance have some use, they just throw up their hands and say fuck it, can't be solved, just give everyone everything. I don't know if this is the straw that snaps the Alliance population in this Classic re-release, but it's certainly not going to help.

My Vanilla Classic guild left Alliance to go Horde in TBC Classic for arenas. Horde are simply better when it comes to racials. A lot of our players are multi glads and know what benefits being horde comes with. I guarantee you not one of them considered staying Alliance because they have better bg queues.. It didnt even cross their minds.. having better racials greatly outweighs any bg queue times.

[Nalam the Venom]

Whats the point of playing a 2 faction game when one side is clearly superior or catered to?

Faction is a dead concept that only split the playerbase.

I hope all MMORPGs remove it.

[Thundering]

This. Just started lvling a nelf druid alt but honestly might restart it as horde on a dif server.

I have no intresset in playing horde, and i am already on the end sub button the same stuff is happening again, if faction transfers where available Alliance would just drop dead just as it happen again.

Notice how this only became a real problem as they releasad tbc...... When both sides had their own advantage it was fairly equal just a bit more people played alliance.

[Ruchia]

Alliance players are so sad. This change literally doesn't impact any of you.

Of course it does. Less incentive to play alliance as there's no negative feedback.

[bowlink]

If i could ask an open question to blizzard at blizzcon i would ask: are you planning anything to insentivise players to roll Alliance. (Or Should we just start playing FFXIV now)

the part of brackets i wouldn't write down as its pretty clear now that blizzard vets their questions.

[guisadop]

I would definitely like to see a server or two with a "free faction" feature, or something that allowed you to "betray" your original faction for a price or a questchain. it was a MMO champion april's fools joke once and I got quite excited about that haha33

[archelos91]

If you have any interest in pvp alliance is basically not an option anymore due to pvp playerbase being horde dominated. GL finding arena partners!

[Shaqthefat]

Of course it does. Less incentive to play alliance as there's no negative feedback.

People can play the faction they want now

[Thundering]

People can play the faction they want now

No they cant since the meta controls everything and pve and pvp meta is Horde racials........When Alliance was the better side for pve atleast they had more players than horde but now its just collapsing.

[arkanon]

No they cant since the meta controls everything and pve and pvp meta is Horde racials........When Alliance was the better side for pve atleast they had more players than horde but now its just collapsing.

But.....I can? I'm playing the faction I want to, and havnt had a single issue finding groups or pugs or guilds for any and all content. The "meta" only controls those willing to be controlled by it, for the vast majority of the player base, they are not even aware of these discussions, it does not impact them in any way.

Its absolutely no different than the people saying "you'll never get a group as X spec", while I happily play X spec getting groups without issue and having fun. Will you get invited to a guild aiming for "world first" kills? or going for speed run records? Probably not. But for everyone else (literally nearly everyone) it just isn't an issue.

I read a thread a few days ago on official forums where someone was asking if it was "too late" to start TBCC, and some people were trying to convince him that the ship has sailed, and unless hes in full BiS already, he wont get a group for anything and will always be behind.