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  1. #341
    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Wu View Post
    I hope more and more people do an exodus of WoW into FF14. It's a much better game and MMO. I'm having fun playing it these last 2 weeks and I'm not even at Heavensward yet.

    Glad Asmongold started it.
    don't fool yourself, streamers do what they do to gain more audience/money and their personal enjoyment.

  2. #342
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    9.1 as we got it would have been fine (still not great) had it come in March.
    if it would come in march it would be fastest opening raid patch in the history of wow... hell in april it would still be among fastest opening raid patches, and among fastest raid patches in general...
    in april it would be as fast as secrets of ulduar, which added NOTHING but raid (well some daily q and tuning ofc) and was folowup to expansion release in which they started with one rehashed and two one boss raids, so raid team had quite a bit of time... so yeah, in april it wouldnt be fine, but GODDAMN FUCKING IMPRESIVE

  3. #343
    I think Korthia is alright. But considering how long the patch took it should have knocked it out of the park.

    New Torghast I'm neutral on. Not seeing much of a big difference really. I cleared the same way I always do and got enough points to advance. Talent tree and Adamant Vaults or whatever could be fun.

    But for me what makes or breaks it is the raid, as usual, so that remains to be seen.
    I am the one who knocks ... because I need your permission to enter.

  4. #344
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    I can't tell if OP is genuine or not, so I won't adress that specifically.

    However, I agree that 9.1 is a let down. Maybe I'm just burned out of the game, but Shadowland has been... not fun? It feels as though I'm not driven to keep playing. I'm not really invested into the covenant thing.

    I miss the days where I could just chain dungeons and buy gear from vendors. Everything feels gated now, so I lose interest after a week or two. I tend to play in bursts and it seems like the game tries to force me away from that.

    Maybe it's time I accept wow just isn't for me anymore. It's sad, because I used to love this game.
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  5. #345
    Quote Originally Posted by Zandalarian Paladin View Post
    I can't tell if OP is genuine or not, so I won't adress that specifically.

    However, I agree that 9.1 is a let down. Maybe I'm just burned out of the game, but Shadowland has been... not fun? It feels as though I'm not driven to keep playing. I'm not really invested into the covenant thing.
    So why are you still playing? I mean, if the game is not fun, what is sticking around buying you? Be decisive.
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  6. #346
    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Wu View Post
    I hope more and more people do an exodus of WoW into FF14. It's a much better game and MMO. I'm having fun playing it these last 2 weeks and I'm not even at Heavensward yet.

    Glad Asmongold started it.
    He seems to enjoy himself, so that's nice.

    WoW/Blizzard could use the competition.

  7. #347
    Quote Originally Posted by Eosia View Post
    Which is why campaigns like this are time-gated. To keep people from blitzing through them, then coming to places like here and sniveling about how they have nothing to do.
    That sort of thing has to be stockholm syndrome.

    Why the flying fuck would you keep players from consuming content?
    There can be only 2 answers: either because your content is garbage or its about money. Otherwise I don't see a point, majority of players dont have OCD.
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  8. #348
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    That sort of thing has to be stockholm syndrome.

    Why the flying fuck would you keep players from consuming content?
    There can be only 2 answers: either because your content is garbage or its about money. Otherwise I don't see a point, majority of players dont have OCD.
    Do you feel a need to be handheld by devs?
    How do they get more money??

  9. #349
    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    How do they get more money??
    by timegating content to last more than one month so people feel the need to "finish the story".
    Ship has been abandoned.
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  10. #350
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    There can be only 2 answers: either because your content is garbage or its about money. Otherwise I don't see a point, majority of players dont have OCD.
    You do realize that raid lock outs are a time gate right? It is always weird how people complain about time gates when it involves story but not when it includes instance lock outs and stuff. Using your argument all raids, dungeons, and other instances have always been garbage. Which begs the question why was garbage so popular? Remember to that Vanilla and TBC had attunements which are just another form of time gating. Yet it was thought to be "not garbage" by enough players for Blizzard to create Classic servers. Weird huh?
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  11. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    You do realize that raid lock outs are a time gate right? It is always weird how people complain about time gates when it involves story but not when it includes instance lock outs and stuff. Using your argument all raids, dungeons, and other instances have always been garbage. Which begs the question why was garbage so popular? Remember to that Vanilla and TBC had attunements which are just another form of time gating. Yet it was thought to be "not garbage" by enough players for Blizzard to create Classic servers. Weird huh?
    You compare attunements to todays time gates? Onyxia pre-q, UBRS key and MC litterally takes some hours to do. Can be hard to do some parts if you cant find a group due to low pop server etc. Time-gates litterally even makes their own systems seems obsolete - 233 gear gated behind was it renown 75. I dont know how slow TBC is, but KZ is just run 3 5 mans pretty much. BT questline was also fast to do, but full quest line is not unlocked.

    What makes these games good is that you can play 12 hours 1 day doing only 1 thing if you want to - Aka if I wanted to grind anima all in one day I can do that in say TBC...Anima just being rep grinding in TBC or whatever.
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  12. #352
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    by timegating content to last more than one month so people feel the need to "finish the story".
    Some just unsub until it’s all available
    At least according to this forum

  13. #353
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Which begs the question why was garbage so popular? Remember to that Vanilla and TBC had attunements which are just another form of time gating. Yet it was thought to be "not garbage" by enough players for Blizzard to create Classic servers. Weird huh?
    I think this is pretty obvious: Attunements in Classic / TBC feel pretty organic to the world.

    You can't just walk into a dragons lair, they have some magic to protect themselves, now you need some trinket to bypass said magic.

    It's something very different to Blizzard just disabling an instance teleport because you're not supposed to be in there yet.
    They have serve some secondary purpose, such as ensuring that people continue to run dungeons throughout the expansion and not just skip towards raid content.

  14. #354
    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    Some just unsub until it’s all available
    At least according to this forum
    The common suggestion to unsub if you're not enjoying the fucking game. But apparently it's an alien concept to people who post on forums not to pay for a product that doesn't meet their arbitrary expectations.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    I think this is pretty obvious: Attunements in Classic / TBC feel pretty organic to the world.

    You can't just walk into a dragons lair, they have some magic to protect themselves, now you need some trinket to bypass said magic.

    It's something very different to Blizzard just disabling an instance teleport because you're not supposed to be in there yet.
    They have serve some secondary purpose, such as ensuring that people continue to run dungeons throughout the expansion and not just skip towards raid content.
    Attunements are completely fucking pointless. Meaningless RP elements designed to artificially gate content for no real compelling reason. Anybody championing the addition of attunements back into the game should be forced to watch, on repeat, exactly how WildStar failed for this precise reasoning.

  15. #355
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    You can't just walk into a dragons lair, they have some magic to protect themselves, now you need some trinket to bypass said magic.
    But that reason can be done even with out attunements. Which we see with Modern WoW and how there are story elements tied to the raid but do not restrict entry into the raid. Tomb of Sargeras had an entire zone, faction, and quest hub dedicated to "entry into the raid".
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  16. #356
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Attunements are completely fucking pointless. Meaningless RP elements designed to artificially gate content for no real compelling reason.
    I'm not going to argue about the value of attunements, i am pointing out the difference.

    If you fail to grasp the difference between something such as the Onyxia / Karazhan attunement and Blizzard just straight saying "no, you cannot do X until date Y", then that's on you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    exactly how WildStar failed for this precise reasoning.
    At this point we need a name for this, instead of "Godwin's law", something like "Wildstar's law".
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    But that reason can be done even with out attunements. Which we see with Modern WoW and how there are story elements tied to the raid but do not restrict entry into the raid. Tomb of Sargeras had an entire zone, faction, and quest hub dedicated to "entry into the raid".
    RPG's can also work without classes.
    Or gear.
    Or leveling.

    RPG's are pretty flexible when it comes to "what goes into them".

    There is nothing written in stone that says "Attunements are a requirement", but i personally think they add some flavor to it as it makes more sense to me that the enemy has some magical protections in place that not everybody can just enter into their hideout.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2021-07-05 at 07:37 PM.

  17. #357
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    I'm not going to argue about the value of attunements, i am pointing out the difference. If you fail to grasp the difference between something such as the Onyxia / Karazhan attunement and Blizzard just straight saying "no, you cannot do X until date Y", then that's on you.
    But the quest line is saying you can't do X until Y date. It is the same thing just different factors for the date.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  18. #358
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    But the quest line is saying you can't do X until Y date. It is the same thing just different factors for the date.
    Nah dude, you gotta think about the flavor of your imaginary pixels being held behind other pointless imaginary pixels. Attunements = GOOD; time gating = BAD!

  19. #359
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    But the quest line is saying you can't do X until Y date. It is the same thing just different factors for the date.
    No, the difference is once again completely obvious and yet you miss it somehow.

    First off, it entirely depends on you.
    You are in control when you want to start the attunement and finish it, you can do the entire Onyxia questchain in a single day if you want to, same goes for Kara.
    There is absolutely no timegate involved other than the limits to you own playtime.

    In the case of timegating, there is virtually nothing you can do but wait, you can't go faster, you just sit on your ass until Blizzard says "now you can enter".

    Timegating generally refers to Blizzard artifically blocking people from accessing a given content with the player having no ability to bypass it.
    You cannot complete the same daily quest multiple times in order to get Rep faster, you are forced to come back tomorrow if you want to continue.

    This is completely different a grind / questhchain that simply takes X hours but you are completely free on whether you want to complete it in a single day or over the course of multiple days / weeks.

    Simply because both involve "time" doesn't make them similiar.
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Nah dude, you gotta think about the flavor of your imaginary pixels being held behind other pointless imaginary pixels. Attunements = GOOD; time gating = BAD!
    Again, you are free to believe whatever you want about attunements, but if the difference between the old school attunements and flatout timegating eludes you, then you are just obtuse in order to defend timegating.

    It's completely fine to not like attunements, but that doesn't mean that way Blizzard timegates is somehow similiar or better.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2021-07-05 at 07:48 PM.

  20. #360
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Again, you are free to believe whatever you want about attunements, but if the difference between the old school attunements and flatout timegating eludes you, then you are just obtuse in order to defend timegating.
    I'm not defending anything. I don't give a shit either way. I've played the game when it had attunements and I've played the game when it didn't have attunements. My personal enjoyment of this game was amplified tenfold in the latter version because I like to play alts. Please don't make this a semantic argument about what does or does not represent a time gate. I personally thought attunements were an even worse version of timegating that heavily discouraged playing alts and multiclassing for the extremely nebulous desire to shoehorn an RP element into the game that was wholly unnecessary.
    Last edited by Relapses; 2021-07-05 at 07:53 PM.

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