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  1. #361
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Legion was the peak of modern WoW, there is no debate or question about it. It was also the last "huzzah" of the 2nd generation of WoW team before handing it off to Ion and company at the start, and the results speak for themselves.
    Ummmmmmm, no. There is debate and question about it because I vehemently disagree.

  2. #362
    Bloodsail Admiral salate's Avatar
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    I dont know...
    Make an xpac which bring my wife back to wow so we can spam content together like we did in the Legion
    step into everything will gief ya nothing, mon

  3. #363
    I currently am sub'd, but only for classic TBC. Since this is in the retail section I assume that means what would bring me back to retail.

    A lot of it has been covered here already, but the bloat each expansion and constant need to play all the time and do things I don't want to to keep up. That is why I enjoy TBC, if I want to take 3-4 days off to do whatever, at any point of an expansion, I don't feel behind at all.

    I was subbed for Shadowlands, leveling was fun, 5 mans were fun enough but then it just stopped being fun. The chore set is quickly. Do world quests, farm anima, do torg, do the maw, do PVP. Of that list, doing torg was the only "fun" thing on it. Torg quickly became unfun after doing the same boring crap with just a little more hp/damage and zone appearance.

    What I want and what would bring me back. Level up > do 5 mans(a few days, 3-5 worth) > be able to raid high end. World quests can give gear close to 5 mans, that's fine, can be used to fill in missing items that didn't drop. That's it. Nothing else required for high end content.

    Torg would be merely story/cosmetics. Maw would be merely story and daily quests for gold. PVP would be strictly for pvp gear. Mythic+ would be strictly for M+. The cross over of everything makes it almost necessary to do all aspects of the game even if you don't want to and/or find them very unenjoyable.

    Finally, lore. I am a decently sized lore nerd and blizzard has just run it in to the literal ground. Everything has been retcon, no one dies, no decision is final, nothing maters. Good chars are turned bad, bad chars turned to shit with horrid story(Sylv). Any single person on the warcraftlore subreddit could do a better job writing a story that makes sense and has good twists and turns to keep people interested and they'd probably do it for free. The fact that people are getting paid to fuck things up this badly is near unfathomable.

    So to bring me back to retail, break apart the game to Raiding, M+ and PvP where each side never has to touch the other if they choose. Limit all things but those previous 3 to purely optional and by that I mean optional, not "oh it only gets you some sockets" or "it's only a few ilvls" as that isn't optional to any decent raiding scene. And fix the fucking story/lore.

    As I don't ever see any of those happening, WoW retail is dead for me. Thankfully classic is a thing to keep me around my friends.

  4. #364
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    OK, if you work for Blizzard enlighten us please. Otherwise your opinion is as worthless as any opinion in this forum.
    Here’s a quote from a recent interview about the subject from people working at blizzard, articles a great read id suggest going through it all.

    A firewall of sorts has been constructed around the core game development teams, with every effort being made to protect Blizzard’s internal development culture. When the layoffs hit in 2019, game development escaped relatively unscathed.

    The reported firewall around game dev may be one reason that Keller is so vehement in pushing against this narrative when speaking with IGN. “I can't think of one time where Activision has… or sorry, like management, has come in and asked us to change a creative decision about any of our games. They have so much faith and trust that these talented developers that they've hired are making the right choices for their games. They give us free rein to do that.”
    https://www.ign.com/articles/special...ossroads?amp=1
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  5. #365
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    question is why were previous expansions enjoyable to you as opposed to now?
    It seems to me that it has to do with making me feel I'm making bad choices, while playing.

    You are covenant X, but covenant Y is better yknow?
    That soulbind is fun, but did you know Y is better?

    Small things like that that seem to add up and slowly creep into my enjoyment.

    I am sure there were some also available in previous expansions, but seems like they weren't as on the nose as they are now to me.

    -

    As an example, from back when I was actively playing in Shadowlands with friends; Felt in love with Maldraxxus ever since the cinematics, so of course I rushed for them on my main. But Warriors and Necrolords didn't mesh well, at all. It definitely creeped hard on my mind. Watching friends having fun and progressing - then watching performance differences, even at similar iLevels, was very devastating. Worst part is when you feel like you should step out of the regular team because you know you are preventing them from progressing the way they should be doing.

    It was just a feeling that I hadn't had in the longest time, probably dating back to the earlier versions of WoW, with how some classes had to do X and that's all they could do. (In my case, druid healer.)
    Last edited by Darkeon; 2021-07-06 at 06:15 PM.

  6. #366
    New class
    New race
    Content back on Azeroth
    XP bonus for alts
    Flying after max level on one character
    Dial back on the story by a factor of about a million, no more cosmic time travellin' world killin' death savin' cosmic heroes (obv would need a time skip)

  7. #367
    Titan Frozenbeef's Avatar
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    Content that isn't copy pasted from the last 10 years, they could add so many features , housing, player created content and tools to do so, zone invasions, war efforts, open world raids, specs, unique races (none biped?) remove factions completely or introduce a third etc..instead they just give their artifact power system a new coat of paint, a new raid , dungeon and zone with a few gated dailies and call it a day.
    Last edited by Frozenbeef; 2021-07-06 at 06:21 PM.

  8. #368
    A lot would have to change but the biggest issue for me is the timegating of everything. Let me play the game at whatever pace I want or offer something that is actually enjoyable long term and not another chore gated by another chore only to extend the playtime metrics...

  9. #369
    Significant improvements to content outside of Mythic+, Organized Raiding, and PVP.

    I know that will never happen, nor do I really think it should. They have historically shown they aren't very good at developing meaningful content outside of the big 3 listed above. Better to just double down on what they are good at, and let players like myself drift to other games being developed more to meet those interests.

  10. #370
    I am Murloc!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkeon View Post
    It seems to me that it has to do with making me feel I'm making bad choices, while playing.

    You are covenant X, but covenant Y is better yknow?
    That soulbind is fun, but did you know Y is better?

    Small things like that that seem to add up and slowly creep into my enjoyment.

    I am sure there were some also available in previous expansions, but seems like they weren't as on the nose as they are now to me.

    -

    As an example, from back when I was actively playing in Shadowlands with friends; Felt in love with Maldraxxus ever since the cinematics, so of course I rushed for them on my main. But Warriors and Necrolords didn't mesh well, at all. It definitely creeped hard on my mind. Watching friends having fun and progressing - then watching performance differences, even at similar iLevels, was very devastating. Worst part is when you feel like you should step out of the regular team because you know you are preventing them from progressing the way they should be doing.

    It was just a feeling that I hadn't had in the longest time, probably dating back to the earlier versions of WoW, with how some classes had to do X and that's all they could do. (In my case, druid healer.)
    this is where you just have to try to ignore the min maxing bullshit. it really only matters if you're gunning for world first. even for the average mythic raider the dps difference is so tiny it doesn't matter. I chose my covenants based on what class I best felt fit their theme and I'm sticking to it. I only do heroic raiding though and very few m+

  11. #371
    Quote Originally Posted by Monkeymootwo View Post
    I will never understand Blizz's aversion to housing. (and please nobody try to claim Garrisons were housing, it only shows your ignorance on the subject) It has soooo many benefits to the game and like no down sides. It's just silly at this point that they haven't done it.
    Blizzard doesn't seem to like investing in "fluff", we've already seen that with character customization. Aside from the new characters model updates in WoD (which were hit or miss), it took since Wrath to get any new character customization and, of course, after we got it they're like, yeah, we have no plans to do any more. I've long suspected that the people in charge are the types who just pick a character based on racials, hit randomize, and start playing. I've never gotten the impression they care about these things to the point that I think they think it's stupid and pointless.

    The best housing we'd get if they ever did it would likely be something half-assed like garrisons, a basic SW or Org aesthetic building and reused assets like chairs and beds you'd find at an inn.
    "People with depression score higher on tests of realism. Intelligence is positively correlated with mental illness and suicide. What this indicates is that if the mind understands too much about reality, it wants to destroy itself. Human life is existential horror."

  12. #372
    I detest the idea of every player getting an instanced house so they can play some interior design sim inside WoW. People think they want this but it's just going to be another Garrison with extra options. You mess with it for a few days and then you're bored.

    I do like the idea of players being able to have a real impact on the world. The idea that there are small plots of lands across the world that one player can claim, select a building for and further customise to their liking as well as enjoy gameplay perks, that's fine. But these would be ultra-prestigious rewards that only very few can have. Think plots of land costing millions in gold AND require expensive items every week to be paid as upkeep so the plot doesn't get wasted on an inactive player. Or a plot of land that drops as the result of a weekly reward, lasting you one week. Or a plot of land that goes to the highest PVP champions. Maybe a plot of land that is found in a Blizzcon goodie bag.

    Just ultra hard to get, and maintain, structures in the world that everyone will be able to see but only 0.01% of the playerbase will ever be able to own. Purely to showboat with something other than your ultra rare mount.

  13. #373
    Observer Floofi's Avatar
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    I don't think that I will ever return outside of my entire guild returning. I haven't played since the release of Legion, and at this point I feel so far removed from WoW that I don't really have a desire to go back. Before I quit, everything just felt so "samey" to all the past expansions; I was playing the same classes, casting the same spells in the same rotations, against similar enemies, to finish similar quests, so I can get similar rewards, so I could do dungeons and ultimately raids with similar mechanics.

    WoW is like an old house; you can rearrange the furniture, repaint the house, knockdown / add a wall or two, but at it's core it is still the same old worn-down house. The amount of work needed to fully update every system would be so monumental that it would probably be better to start from scratch.

    ...Or remove the sub and change to a B2P model; then I might return every once in awhile to check out new patches.

  14. #374
    Blizzard getting acquired by Dreamhaven and revamped.

  15. #375
    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    Blizzard doesn't seem to like investing in "fluff", we've already seen that with character customization. Aside from the new characters model updates in WoD (which were hit or miss), it took since Wrath to get any new character customization and, of course, after we got it they're like, yeah, we have no plans to do any more. I've long suspected that the people in charge are the types who just pick a character based on racials, hit randomize, and start playing. I've never gotten the impression they care about these things to the point that I think they think it's stupid and pointless.

    The best housing we'd get if they ever did it would likely be something half-assed like garrisons, a basic SW or Org aesthetic building and reused assets like chairs and beds you'd find at an inn.
    The real reason we don't have player housing is that Blizzard has to Blizzardize any feature they add to the game. Garrisons represented this perfectly. It's not a matter of just adding a feature and letting players figure it out. It has to be designed and engineered to be woven in with all of the games' other systems. If we've learned anything over the last few decades it's that Blizzard doesn't exactly like to develop features that aren't used. And the problem with player housing is that it's the type of feature that would make a certain demographic of the game extremely happy and something that many players won't engage with at all. So the problem becomes development investment versus player engagement and ultimately the equation simply doesn't pan out in favor of adding such a feature.

  16. #376
    Their mindset is on how addictive and how easy it is to spend money on mobile types of games. There was a bit where they had some aspects of the game where it was like some of those afk games where you do something and wait a couple hours for it to be done, log back in to send them back out, and wait. If they got rid of that mentality, gave us things we had to farm towards, and flying not being gated + given to us at the beginning of the expansion, I would play.

    Both this expansion and last expansion I came back because friends wanted me to come raiding/pvping with them. Last expansion I stayed until flying and then realized that my alts were so far behind and it would take forever for them to be caught back up so I quit. This expansion, patch 9.1 took so long and all I wanted to do was fly around and kill stuff.

    For me to actually consistently play the entire expansion though, a lot would have to change. Those who play WoW 6+ hours a day would probably get bored of the type of WoW I would need for me to want to play, which I'm not the group WoW is looking to please.

    Sorry if this is incoherent because, in reality, this is such a long winded answer that I'm trying to keep short, but there's actually a lot that would need to change.

  17. #377
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivarr View Post
    I detest the idea of every player getting an instanced house so they can play some interior design sim inside WoW. People think they want this but it's just going to be another Garrison with extra options. You mess with it for a few days and then you're bored.

    I do like the idea of players being able to have a real impact on the world. The idea that there are small plots of lands across the world that one player can claim, select a building for and further customise to their liking as well as enjoy gameplay perks, that's fine. But these would be ultra-prestigious rewards that only very few can have. Think plots of land costing millions in gold AND require expensive items every week to be paid as upkeep so the plot doesn't get wasted on an inactive player. Or a plot of land that drops as the result of a weekly reward, lasting you one week. Or a plot of land that goes to the highest PVP champions. Maybe a plot of land that is found in a Blizzcon goodie bag.

    Just ultra hard to get, and maintain, structures in the world that everyone will be able to see but only 0.01% of the playerbase will ever be able to own. Purely to showboat with something other than your ultra rare mount.
    That would go over like a lead balloon. I can only imagine the rage if Blizzard finally devoted resources to implement player housing that only 0.01% would ever be able to use. Also, the "you think you want it, but you don't" argument is odd when player housing is a widely liked form of content in other MMOs. Although, considering that I believe Blizzard would absolutely half-ass player housing the way they did garrisons, you'd probably be right. I don't see Blizzard ever doing housing on a level like Rift or Wildstar.

    FFXIV has limited housing and it is a problem, it's probably the #2 thing I see most criticized about the game next to bank (retainer) space.
    "People with depression score higher on tests of realism. Intelligence is positively correlated with mental illness and suicide. What this indicates is that if the mind understands too much about reality, it wants to destroy itself. Human life is existential horror."

  18. #378
    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    That would go over like a lead balloon. I can only imagine the rage if Blizzard finally devoted resources to implement player housing that only 0.01% would ever be able to use. Also, the "you think you want it, but you don't" argument is odd when player housing is a widely liked form of content in other MMOs.
    No doubt the salt would flow richly.

    But here's the problem, either:

    - Housing is instanced and therefore a gimmick.
    - Housing is widely available in the open world and therefore an eye-sore
    - Housing is widely available in the open world, but strictly limited so it doesn't intrude too much.

    All three options have their own problems. Personally I believe Order Halls are a good first start. They're exclusive and social at the same time. People liked hanging out in them even though there wasn't anything to customise or to. If elite housing isn't going to be a thing, then expanding on order halls would be the next best bet, and even here I would prefer to see the development resources go into creating actual gameplay within the order halls rather than exclusively cosmetic customisation.

  19. #379
    Legendary!
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    Go back to loot that isn't boring, basically. Make better dungeons so that M+ isn't hideous to run.
    AchaeaKoralin - Are you still out there? | Classic Priest

  20. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by dacoolist View Post
    Blizzard does work as a collective, Ghostcrawler said it, hell even Chris Metzen said it.. Everyone called for their termination, and they eventually quit and the games been in a tougher spot since.. Like what do you want fam.. the game to die
    metzen and ghostcrawler made their mistakes but added some great things to this game. What has Ion given us that were not better off without?

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