View Poll Results: Could two intelligent races evolve on the same planet without killing each other off?

Voters
47. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    28 59.57%
  • No

    19 40.43%
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst
1
2
3
  1. #41
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    the Quiet Room
    Posts
    31,930
    Sure - especially if they are separated by their environment. If one was developing on land while another was in the water. At some point they would discover each other as their tech develops, but even humans really didn't know what was in the ocean until the later part of the 20th century (and we still don't have a full accounting), and by then we'd already landed on the moon.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Biglog View Post
    As others have said, we already know the answer to this question and it is no. In fact the only example that we know of that exists in this universe was a no, so that's pretty open and shut. Neanderthals are a different intelligent species from human, there was clearly cross-breeding, but for reasons unknown Neanderthals died out. Whether that was due to disease, conflict with humans, or some other reason we don't know. But they definitely existed and do not anymore, while humans do. So the first test of them living together that we know of was a failure. And even fairly intelligent animals haven't fared well with humans, we allow them to exist and/or use them for labor or entertainment if it benefits us, but looking at climate change, deforestation, pollution, etc. it's hard to argue that we're living in balance with intelligent animal life.
    We don't though. Dolphins and other aquatic species evolved for intelligence. Humans beat them overall, but we still don't know the full depth of our own oceans. The best answer we can offer is either "not yet".

  2. #42
    Probably not. I mean look how much countries fought over history. For money, for religion, for sheer psychopatic desire to conquer.

    Now imagine if you add a second species into the mix. Hell no. One would be extinct or enslaved.

  3. #43
    Sure, why not? There could be a world so much bigger than ours, that two intelligent species would've evolved before they even met. There could be a planet with so many resources that there is no need for strive and both species could evolve together peacefully. Planets where species never evolved the selfish gene. Planets where one species evolved deep in the ocean and the other on mountain tops high in the sky, so they never met until they both launched spaceships. Planets where one intelligent species was way, way ahead and just observed as other species evolved intelligence. So many possibilities.

  4. #44
    Seems to me we're a perfect example.

  5. #45
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    FEEL THE WRATH OF MY SPANNER!!
    Posts
    33,937
    They most likely could if they were of the right levels of intelligence but we have no examples to research and compare with.
    Stuff can be fixed, just get enough glue or duct tape!
    Roses are red, mana is blue. Suramar Guards, Will always find you!

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    They most likely could if they were of the right levels of intelligence but we have no examples to research and compare with.
    Except our own inability to live with each other.

  7. #47
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    FEEL THE WRATH OF MY SPANNER!!
    Posts
    33,937
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Except our own inability to live with each other.
    Correct, which means, we aren't on the right level to be compared to anyone yet or even matched up.
    Stuff can be fixed, just get enough glue or duct tape!
    Roses are red, mana is blue. Suramar Guards, Will always find you!

  8. #48
    We're already making not-as-intelligent species extinct. So no, I'd say that one group would always compete with and sooner or later extinct the other.

  9. #49
    Define "intelligent species".

    I haven't watched the video, but I can already imagine multiple issues with this question vs sci-fi worlds the question is likely based on.

    First problem: As I said, define "intelligent" species.
    Second problem: There are multiple intelligent species on Earth already, just they aren't tool using primates.
    Third problem: At this point in history, it's not unreasonable to say that Human development of technology is completely unique in the universe. We have zero proof that there has ever been any other kind of Race in the stars that are as advanced as we are.

    Even if we restrict this to intelligence creating technology; yes it's possible as it's essentially happened here. Might as well considering multiple races developing in different parts of the planet as evidence of this. If for some reason there was an alligator people that came to prominence the same time humans did, there is no reason to believe they wouldn't continue to develop. Even after a contact period, seeing as China wasn't taken over by the Middle Easterns or Rome didn't kill everyone not Roman, there is no reason to believe if the Chinese just so happened to be alligator people that they still wouldn't have held fast as their own civilization.

    And before anyone mentions Neanderthals or other sub-human species, they were more or less integrated. They were an inferior evolutionary branch, 2 completely separate species that are the prime evolutionary branch is a different situation.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by StillMcfuu View Post
    And before anyone mentions Neanderthals or other sub-human species, they were more or less integrated. They were an inferior evolutionary branch, 2 completely separate species that are the prime evolutionary branch is a different situation.
    They were possibly more intelligent. The most common theory for their extinction is quite literally oversized heads. The large heads meant more problems during birth, selecting for even wider/larger hips, especially in women. This is a major problem for locomotion. The increased calorie need for the larger brain mass coupled with less economical motion due to hips was a major drain on resources, which, in conjunction with higher infant mortality rates, was essentially the end for them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    They were possibly more intelligent. The most common theory for their extinction is quite literally oversized heads. The large heads meant more problems during birth, selecting for even wider/larger hips, especially in women. This is a major problem for locomotion. The increased calorie need for the larger brain mass coupled with less economical motion due to hips was a major drain on resources, which, in conjunction with higher infant mortality rates, was essentially the end for them.
    Modern humans do have a good chunk of Neanderthal DNA as well (at least those outside of Africa), meaning that they didn't only die off.

    Not refuting what you say, but the biggest theories I've seen is integration/being left behind (not adapting). While they may have had bigger heads, that doesn't necessarily mean more intelligent. I'd say the bigger driver in the calorie needs would be their size, and not specifically their head size. Less efficient locomotion would also be a massive factor in caloric needs.

    I just think saying "their heads were too big, they died more in child birth" is a poor theory considering they got there through evolution. The factors of not being able to adapt to changing environments, with their lower birth rate, and intermingling with non-Neanderthals all lead to them functionally not existing anymore is a more accurate statement/likely theory.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by StillMcfuu View Post
    Define "intelligent species".

    First problem: As I said, define "intelligent" species.
    Yeah...we've a ways to go.

  13. #53
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    California
    Posts
    20,442
    Quote Originally Posted by StillMcfuu View Post
    Define "intelligent species".
    A species is intelligent if its members are general problem solvers and universal explainers. Currently only humans can create explanations of the world and that's what separates us from all other living creatures. It's possible for a non-human to be intelligent but they haven't evolved anywhere separately from hominids as far as we know and AI isn't intelligent yet either, but it can be in the future.
    Last edited by PC2; 2021-07-22 at 06:43 PM.
    Let's spread optimism and defeat pessimism! (HumanProgress.org)

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by StillMcfuu View Post
    Modern humans do have a good chunk of Neanderthal DNA as well (at least those outside of Africa), meaning that they didn't only die off.

    Not refuting what you say, but the biggest theories I've seen is integration/being left behind (not adapting). While they may have had bigger heads, that doesn't necessarily mean more intelligent. I'd say the bigger driver in the calorie needs would be their size, and not specifically their head size. Less efficient locomotion would also be a massive factor in caloric needs.

    I just think saying "their heads were too big, they died more in child birth" is a poor theory considering they got there through evolution. The factors of not being able to adapt to changing environments, with their lower birth rate, and intermingling with non-Neanderthals all lead to them functionally not existing anymore is a more accurate statement/likely theory.
    It was the increased infant mortality selecting for larger hips, not just the increased infant mortality alone (more successful pregnancies to wider hipped mothers). As far as caloric needs go, an increase of 10% in brain size is a larger hit than a corresponding increase to body size. Brains, per gram, consume more energy than any other type of tissue. Their brains were a bit less than 10% larger than ours (IIRC somewhere around 1400ccs compares to around 1300ccs for us). While this isn't a 10% increase in caloric needs or anything, it doesn't need to be. When advantages as low as fractions of a % leading to successful propagation of a genotype in a population within several generations, even small advantages (or disadvantages) can have massive effects.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  15. #55
    Did we ever all have blue eyes?

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Athorha View Post
    Did we ever all have blue eyes?
    Yes. When we're born.

  17. #57
    I am Murloc! PhaelixWW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Washington (né California)
    Posts
    5,813
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Yes. When we're born.
    No, actually, that's a myth. Blue-eyed babies are actually a minority.


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  18. #58
    Scarab Lord Master Guns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    California
    Posts
    4,496
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post
    No such distinction. Race =/= Species

    To give more specifics Klingon and Humans are the same race they can breed because they are the same species human.

    Jaguars and Tigers can breed because they are the same species.


    Dolphins and Human are different species both evolved certain intelligence


    Could two different species coexist? Probably. That would all depend on the needs of one vs the needs of another.

    Dolphins might have a completely different idea on how to develop and progress in this environment.


    If said ambition is similar in other words Dolphins are as intelligent as humans and have the same desires.

    Then NO. We’d have a pretty big problem.

    The example every other variable of human that seem to be intent on destroying each other.

    No way is that going to then mesh well with another similar species.
    I..what? No, dude. Just no. Klingons are not humans. The fuck?

    Please enjoy my film SCHISM, a film festival winning short
    https://youtu.be/HjwQ8jBcoq8

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •