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  1. #141
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    Only after we make a megathread for "muh horde is ruined" and "need muh slyvanas back".
    how many threads are created for those? i can't see one.

    Elf thread is every single day

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    Bwonsamdi>>>>>>>>elune
    that's what I tell myself every time I log in on my fury warrior...

    my mans deserves better.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Deities in rpgs shoul be for pantheon making only, and rarely acting via their followers with some sort of minor miracle.
    Agreed, but this is only half the issue. When the actions of the mortals themselves putting the universe at stake, then what kind of god wouldn't intervene somehow?

    The problem is WoW kept raising the stakes even though it never had to. The most interesting stories aren't about gods, but about the petty squabbles of mortal beings. As you said, the gods are merely supposed to be a garnish.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    Then why should night elfs subject themselves to her with such fervor?
    A very good question I expect to see addressed. Would the high priestess of Elune forsake her entirely for failing to provide this vengeance?

    I'm really eager to find out.
    Quote Originally Posted by DatToffer View Post
    Sylvanas will just give her own head to Tyrande.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    Only after we make a megathread for "muh horde is ruined" and "need muh slyvanas back".
    They prefer to derail every single thread with that.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    A very good question I expect to see addressed. Would the high priestess of Elune forsake her entirely for failing to provide this vengeance?

    I'm really eager to find out.
    Expect to be disappointed then, because Blizzard's writers are more likely to shit out a cactus than to address a topic with this much weight to it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    WoW and our world have one key difference - in our world religions have about equal amount of “proof” of their deities being real or of their causes being “the only true” - zero amount. You just… believe and hope that you follow the right path so to say.

    Religion is more about culture , really.

    In WoW though? Its a world where gods and powers are real, tangible things. Some of them were even seen “in the flesh” or actively appear before their followers.

    So obviously when you try and put an IRL religion standards on WoW it dosent work.

    My post has nothing to do with real life religions. Its purely about WoW.
    I was talking about that other guy. I agree with you on this. Elune is an absolutely shit goddess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    how many threads are created for those? i can't see one.

    Elf thread is every single day
    It's odd seeing pots and kettles bang together, unable to realize they both are black.

  8. #148
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivarr View Post
    Agreed, but this is only half the issue. When the actions of the mortals themselves putting the universe at stake, then what kind of god wouldn't intervene somehow?
    why would they? they are rpetty safe in their own dimension/homeplane.

    they can act, but like i said minor.

    The problem is WoW kept raising the stakes even though it never had to. The most interesting stories aren't about gods, but about the petty squabbles of mortal beings. As you said, the gods are merely supposed to be a garnish.
    thats right, wow team can't write up an engaging story without resorting to increasing power lv of enemies, they keep escalating and trap themselves into a corner of, since we are fighting gods, we can't face local enemies and conflicts anymore

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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post

    It's odd seeing pots and kettles bang together, unable to realize they both are black.
    if you can point where is those threads to help this transaction i would be most obliged

    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    They prefer to derail every single thread with that.
    i mean, isn't you who derail threads saying it is horde bias?

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Mardux View Post
    Like cmon, you people insist on acting like the poor little night elves have never done anything wrong and have always been treated as the worst people in game. All while turning a blind eye to the shitstorms they have created, both willingly and accidentally. Hell... they practically rolled out the red carpet for the legion with their vanity and tendencies toward megalomania, but let's pretend that never happened since it dims the halo we want above their heads, right?
    In all fairness, the ones who did that stuff (The Highborne-caste of Night elf society back then) are now either Naga, or were banished and their descendants are present-day Blood elves (Or indeed void elves), the people now known as Night elves are the ones who kicked out the magic users and turned to Druidism and Elune worship instead, not that Elune worship did them much good, but that's another story...

  10. #150
    Your answer is a religious question. First, you must understand the purpose and function of religion.

    A market might sell you food. A tailor might sell you clothes. A religion sells you a MORAL CODE.

    These things are all needed. You cannot function in society without them. But what is a better deal? Something that makes you more powerful? Or something that makes you happy? Or something that has the best chance to create more kids? Or something else? In the Roman Empire, the pantheon of Roman gods was the dominant religion. Christianity came along later. It didn't make you more powerful to switch to Christianity. Often it got you persecuted or killed. But it offered something else that was superior, to the point where it replaced the old religion.

    Maybe following another god would have saved the night elves. But perhaps following Elune makes them tremendously happy in their day-to-day life. So they refuse to switch. Who knows?

    Its like a career. Maybe career A makes you 300% more powerful in this life. But career B makes you tremendously happy every day. Which do you choose?
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  11. #151
    Dreadlord Smallfruitbat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post

    Then why should night elfs subject themselves to her with such fervor? There are many other powers in WoW universe that are far more reliable , reward you for devotion and generally are far better known and understood then a mysterious moon deity.

    Its just comes along as a… shame. Night elfs would be better off with another deity to love and worship, they are spiritual and devote people and they deserve better then to heap praise and worship at the feet of an uncaring, aloof goddess which ignores or mocks them.
    In terms of story telling/game balance Blizzard painted themselves into a corner from the outset of World of Warcraft. Pre-WoW, the night elves were pretty much over powered, in order to fit them into the game they got neutered. You can have one playable race with such an advantage.

    In my opinion, Blizzard went in the wrong direction in Legion cutting down all the big bads in one fel-swoop. There was very little left 'out there' in terms of threats and so they went on this rampage of creating another lot of villains who are more powerful than the last lot -cause everything has always got to be ultra high stakes.

    How then can you contend with the Horde/Alliance narrative if one race has a god on their side. The easiest thing to do is conveniently have that god turn a blind eye to the gods pet race. For me, since WoTLK/Cata (with the exception of Legion) the villains of the expac have been pretty poorly fleshed out, it feel more like go kill this guy cause he is stronk, you can do is cause you crushed the last dude. I struggle to think of a successful fantasy epic where the big bad guy isn't present in someway from the beginning and doesn't last out until the end, what we've got in WoW is a conveyor belt of loot piñatas.

    An entity like Elune should function as the ultimate back-stop, able to keep evil in check if it overstretches. -Sargeras is out there with his Burning Legion, but don't worry we've got our Goddess who can lend us a hand to prevent complete annihilation.

  12. #152
    Dreadlord Cloudmaker's Avatar
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    Most of celestials are cold and uncaring. You have no idea what hell they went through. Their entire species got nearly wiped out by the titan who was supposed to protect them. Then they see all this evil on Azeroth, no wonder their feelings are wiped out! Check the caves in Pandaria some of their life essences corrupted and broken. Then all they get is constant asking "Oh give your strength", so they give so much and get so little in return. I would be so done like Algalon is, playing battle pets.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    A market might sell you food. A tailor might sell you clothes. A religion sells you a MORAL CODE.
    What is Elune's moral code? What doctrine sets her apart from the other gods?

  14. #154
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivarr View Post
    What is Elune's moral code? What doctrine sets her apart from the other gods?
    Elune is primarily a goddess devoted to peace-making, mercy, serenity, and healing - those were her primary traits throughout Warcraft's history. However, she does have an aspect of vengeance/justice (incarnated as the Night Warrior), but it seems to be a quite forbidden one.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." - Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Elune is primarily a goddess devoted to peace-making, mercy, serenity, and healing - those were her primary traits throughout Warcraft's history. However, she does have an aspect of vengeance/justice (incarnated as the Night Warrior), but it seems to be a quite forbidden one.
    It is said about her, but still very much debatable, since she hardly cares what her powers are ultimately used for, a prime example would be in desolace, with the player using her power to sack a Nijel's point.

  16. #156
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    It is said about her, but still very much debatable, since she hardly cares what her powers are ultimately used for, a prime example would be in desolace, with the player using her power to sack a Nijel's point.
    The quest is pretty ambiguous as to whether the power of the vortex gem(s) are actually Elune's, specifically: "The ancients revered the gems created by this mystical object, claiming that they were gifts from the goddess herself. It was believed that they were weapons capable of delivering them from any enemy." What they might have actually been being unknown, but since the power invoked by them really doesn't resemble anything Elune grants (either relating to her peaceable or wrathful aspects), I would say these gems are likely not related to Elune.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." - Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    The quest is pretty ambiguous as to whether the power of the vortex gem(s) are actually Elune's, specifically: "The ancients revered the gems created by this mystical object, claiming that they were gifts from the goddess herself. It was believed that they were weapons capable of delivering them from any enemy." What they might have actually been being unknown, but since the power invoked by them really doesn't resemble anything Elune grants (either relating to her peaceable or wrathful aspects), I would say these gems are likely not related to Elune.
    The gems are mere vessels, the power comes ultimately from elune herself.

  18. #158
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    The gems are mere vessels, the power comes ultimately from elune herself.
    Maybe, and maybe not - especially since the area was full of satyr and other servants of the Burning Legion. It's possible, perhaps even probable, that whatever energies stored there had long been corrupted by the demonic presence.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." - Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Maybe, and maybe not - especially since the area was full of satyr and other servants of the Burning Legion. It's possible, perhaps even probable, that whatever energies stored there had long been corrupted by the demonic presence.
    You can literally gather Elunes power from her worshippers.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    WE haven't seen the full picture yet, so we can make these speculations.

    The problem is however is how blizzard can quickly change something later on, using their vagueness in the past to twist things. So your theory could be right and what I expect to happen wrong.

    Based on what Elune has been shown so far, and described, she is good and benevolent - and sometimes when harsh things happen or sacrifices need to be to be made, we can misunderstand the person, a writer really plays with this by not fully revealing the entire motivation and circumstances that led a person to make that decision or take that action for good. Still because we don't know if they'll change something, it could be that they've changed Elune not a benevolent only type, but having a balance of both, but her intentions or actions always for the greatest mount of good. - which sometimes means letting something terrible happen, either that or they'll change her to something else

    We must wait and see
    While this is true and happens all the time in writing, somehow, in WoW it just means it's bad, lazy, the writers have no clue, or are totally biased against the faction/race the poster plays.

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