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  1. #1

    How would you develop and explore deeper the politics of Warcraft ?

    Something I find lacking in the story of Warcraft, especially since the end of Vanilla, is the lack of the development and exploration of the internal politics and institutionnal complexities inside the world of Warcraft.

    For example we don't see much of the various governments of Azeroth besides the house of nobles in Stormwind or the senate of Ironforge, and even then we don't know much about them and their exact role and what power and position they have in comparison and relation to their racial leaders and we also never see any real form of political opposants or characters with who the racial leaders have to compose and work with with the possible exception of Fandral Staghelm for Tyrande Whisperwind and Malfurion Stormrage in Night Elven society and Magatha Grimtotem for the Taurens until her betrayal of Cairne Bloodhoof and banishement. We also don't see much of the politics unique to the factions such as the ones inside the Alliance during and after the Second War such as the dispute over the internment camps and fate of the orcs, and over what should happen to Alterac with Terenas Menethil II wanting to make Aiden's son the new king while Genn Greymane supported his nephew and that Thoras Trollbane wanted to annexate Alterac as compensation for the sacrifices he and his people made during the Second War.

    If you were one of the writers or the lead writer in charge of Warcraft lore how would you develop and explore the internal politics and various games of thrones and powers of Azeroth more ? What kind of governing bodies, institutions, powers and various parties would you add to the characters or to the story overall ?
    Last edited by Terrorthatflapsinthenight; 2021-07-05 at 03:45 PM.

  2. #2
    I have no doubt that the expansion 10.0 will be very focused around politics. One look at the current Alliance leadership will make that clear:

    - Turalyon is now the Regent of Stormwind and Protector of the Realm, what is interesting about Turalyon is that he seeks to reclaim former Alliance holdings like Stromgarde, meaning that he might enter into conflict with the Forsaken, who still have a presence in Lordaeron. Tensions will rise.

    - Alleria Windrunner naturally stands at her husband's side as chief advisor of Stormwind, what is interesting is that she seeks to bring Quel'Thalas back into the Alliance, she has seen it, she knows it will happen. Vereesa Windrunner her sister also seeks to set Quel'Thalas on the path to redemption. Again, more tensions will rise.

    - The House of Nobles have given their support to Turalyon as Regent of the Realm, what is even more interesting is that they might keep supporting him even after Anduin returns. In Legion it was already shown that many citizens miss Varian and don't have a high opinion or many expectations for Anduin. In 8.3 it is shown that many disagree with Anduin's decision to make an armistice, or are concerned by the rumors that Anduin freed Saurfang the orc from the Stormwind Stockades. What's more in this expansion Anduin has been inherently corrupted and twisted by Satan's vile magic. Now tell me, even if Anduin is cleansed, how can the Nobles be certain that Anduin can be trusted, and there isn't some left-over Satan energy in him? The people of Stormwind are the same people who literally spit on the Ebon Blade Death Knights simply because they are undead. Again, tensions are brewing.

    I think Stormwind will be fractured somewhat in 10.0. Many in the House of Nobles will keep their support for Turalyon and make him King officially, while denouncing Anduin, who was corrupted by Satan, and might be seen as a Horde sympathizer because he helped Saurfang escape. Many in Stormwind will push for war with the Horde, either because they want to reclaim former holdings in Lordaeron like Turalyon, or want to bring Quel'Thalas back into the fold like Alleria.

    There's never been a more interesting time to be Alliance than now. It only took like 4 years for Blizzard to realize that Alleria and Turalyon make for more interesting leads than Anduin, about time I guess.

    Regardless you can expect the next expansion to be very focused on the game of politics and thrones, especially now that the House of Nobles (basically the parliament of Stormwind) has come back into relevance, by supporting Turalyon as Regent and Protector of the Realm.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2021-07-05 at 03:50 PM.

  3. #3
    This can only be done by adding more factions. Just Horde vs Alliance doesn't leave any room for diplomacy and subterfuge. Forsaken can be their own faction. Night Elves and Tauren can join each other. Goblins and Ogres mesh well etc.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    I have no doubt that the expansion 10.0 will be very focused around politics. One look at the current Alliance leadership will make that clear:

    - Turalyon is now the Regent of Stormwind and Protector of the Realm, what is interesting about Turalyon is that he seeks to reclaim former Alliance holdings like Stromgarde, meaning that he might enter into conflict with the Forsaken, who still have a presence in Lordaeron. Tensions will rise.

    - Alleria Windrunner naturally stands at her husband's side as chief advisor of Stormwind, what is interesting is that she seeks to bring Quel'Thalas back into the Alliance, she has seen it, she knows it will happen. Vereesa Windrunner her sister also seeks to set Quel'Thalas on the path to redemption. Again, more tensions will rise.

    - The House of Nobles have given their support to Turalyon as Regent of the Realm, what is even more interesting is that they might keep supporting him even after Anduin returns. In Legion it was already shown that many citizens miss Varian and don't have a high opinion or many expectations for Anduin. In 8.3 it is shown that many disagree with Anduin's decision to make an armistice, or are concerned by the rumors that Anduin freed Saurfang the orc from the Stormwind Stockades. What's more in this expansion Anduin has been inherently corrupted and twisted by Satan's vile magic. Now tell me, even if Anduin is cleansed, how can the Nobles be certain that Anduin can be trusted, and there isn't some left-over Satan energy in him? The people of Stormwind are the same people who literally spit on the Ebon Blade Death Knights simply because they are undead. Again, tensions are brewing.

    I think Stormwind will be fractured somewhat in 10.0. Many in the House of Nobles will keep their support for Turalyon and make him King officially, while denouncing Anduin, who was corrupted by Satan, and might be seen as a Horde sympathizer because he helped Saurfang escape. Many in Stormwind will push for war with the Horde, either because they want to reclaim former holdings in Lordaeron like Turalyon, or want to bring Quel'Thalas back into the fold like Alleria.

    There's never been a more interesting time to be Alliance than now. It only took like 4 years for Blizzard to realize that Alleria and Turalyon make for more interesting leads than Anduin, about time I guess.

    Regardless you can expect the next expansion to be very focused on the game of politics and thrones, especially now that the House of Nobles (basically the parliament of Stormwind) has come back into relevance, by supporting Turalyon as Regent and Protector of the Realm.
    This could be interesting but will probably never happen. Blizzard has seemingly forgotten about Turalyon and Alleria, and of course they can't distance themselves from their Golden Boy Anduin.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivarr View Post
    This can only be done by adding more factions. Just Horde vs Alliance doesn't leave any room for diplomacy and subterfuge. Forsaken can be their own faction. Night Elves and Tauren can join each other. Goblins and Ogres mesh well etc.
    The Forsaken need the support of the Horde, now more than ever. If they left the Horde, the Alliance could easily exterminate them.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonrage View Post
    This could be interesting but will probably never happen. Blizzard has seemingly forgotten about Turalyon and Alleria, and of course they can't distance themselves from their Golden Boy Anduin.
    Why do you think this? Let's look at the set-up:

    - They placed Turalyon on the throne of Stormwind.
    - They placed Alleria in the room next to the throne of Stormwind.
    - They had Turalyon say that he wants to reclaim other Alliance holdings in the north.
    - They keep mentioning the fact that Alleria seeks to bring Quel'Thalas back into the Alliance.
    - They brought the House of Nobles back into the spotlight by mentioning that they support Turalyon.
    - THE MOST IMPORTANT SET-UP: They had Anduin become corrupted and twisted by Satan's magic.

    The set-up is massive, I can't imagine them going back to the status quo before Shadowlands, where Anduin is the King of Stormwind. Too much has changed. Anduin himself has changed dramatically.

  6. #6
    Basically, racial campaigns.
    It would go over every race and its conflict with an equivalent race on the other faction, or internal conflicts within their society. Some examples would be the Mag'har vs the Lightforged or the Dwarven clans fighting among themselves.
    Commenting on these forums is like walking on eggshells - you never know where the next infraction is gonna come from.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonrage View Post
    The Forsaken need the support of the Horde, now more than ever. If they left the Horde, the Alliance could easily exterminate them.
    Unless the Worgen join the Forsaken.

    Worgen players get the opportunity to change faction. They don't have to, they can be one of the few loyal Worgen. But story wise the Worgen and the Forsaken both find a shared purpose in their fate.

    Oh and the Death Knights, they get to join as well.
    Last edited by Ivarr; 2021-07-05 at 05:48 PM.

  8. #8
    Elemental Lord Kathranis's Avatar
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    I feel like people generally wants to see a timeskip after Shadowlands, however they justify it. Having a decade or two pass while we're in the Shadowlands would give them the opportunity to completely reset the board.

    I'd like to see Anduin the boy king leave the narrative for a while and come back older, wiser, and more kingly. A "Return of the King" arc for Anduin would be really cool, but he needs to just go away before that can happen. And the issue with that is he's already been captured and robbed of his autonomy by Zovaal, so if he leaves, he needs to do so of his own volition. And it'd need to resolve pretty quick.

    Just brainstorming:

    Anduin returns from the Shadowlands feeling that he no longer belongs in Stormwind. Turalyon and the church have taken hold of Stormwind in his absence, and things are getting a bit fanatical. Have him echo the story of Anduin Lothar and travel to the shores of Lordaeron to try and rebuild, both himself and Sylvanas's fallen kingdom. Maybe Alleria and Calia go with him. Maybe he stays completely incognito. Then we just, you know... let him be gone for a while.

    Timeskip, however they manage it. A decade or two in the future, we pick up with a completely changed political landscape. The "Era of Chaos" has ended, the world has finally had a chance to rebuild.

    Both factions have changed, and in some ways are completely unrecognizable. Conflict between the Horde and Alliance has settled enough that the factions have largely disbanded, becoming less monolithic and more like loosely organized coalitions.

    With that unifying hostility between the Horde and Alliance beginning to fade, we instead focus on smaller scale conflicts between kingdoms, or within kingdoms.

    And we spend a whole expansion just on that. Rebuilding over time, not just at launch. Setting up new characters and narratives, exploring the dynamics of a changed world. No giant, world-ending threats, but maybe some stirrings.

    And then have the narrative build step by step to whatever big thing they want to do next and make that the next expansion. Give us time to reconnect with Azeroth and make us care about protecting it again. And actually do the storytelling groundwork instead of just shoving us into the next big epic moment.


    Call it World of Warcraft: Resurrection. The anti-Cataclysm.
    Last edited by Kathranis; 2021-07-05 at 06:00 PM.

  9. #9
    This is largely why I constantly push for each race to get at least a sliver's worth of a capital city for themselves. Right now, we tend to just follow wherever the adventure is, but we never seem to step back and as why we are joining this latest adventure. Why were the Tauren still willing to fight for the Horde after Teldrassil? How are the Draenei doing after Velen's trip to Argus? How did the Pandaren on each side justify essentially a race war given their past experiences on Shenzin-Su as well as the lessons of Pandaria?

    While I don't see Blizz just stopping having the major points, I do feel we should have race based (or at least class based) reasons for going where we are. This is partially why I liked the Order Halls, because I knew why each class was fighting and what they were working on to continue the fight. It doesn't have to be much. Again, simply showing the reasons in a few breadcrumb quests would suffice to keep the discussion going. But we need something along those lines.

    ---------------------------------------------------

    As for the specific parties/institutions I'd add for those stories, I feel we should move the Alliance to a council like what the Horde has. Give each race some say rather than having everyone point out problems, then Anduin shooting them down because he doesn't agree. I would also put someone from each faction on the other faction's council. Thrall or Baine would be a great Horde representative to serve on the Alliance council while I'd likely have Greymane or Veressa serve as the Alliance respresentative for the Horde.

    A lot of the internal politics would write themselves. Talan'ji constantly trying to push for another Alliance war, the Mag'har determining what the current Horde is compared to what they saw on Draenor, the constant distrust between LF Draenei & Void Elves, etc.

    I'd also probably take some of the races that we likely won't be playable or friendly and have them quietly start up their own third faction, banding together while fearing the might of the Alliance or Horde. That way, we actually have a growing threat that we have to deal with on Azeroth as well as a look into how the other races are seeing our superpower factions acting.

  10. #10
    The Lightbringer Maljinwo's Avatar
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    Dissolve the factions

    Let each race get their own story
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

  11. #11
    I'd break up the factions and make the races more similar to their original depictions from WC2 and 3. They can't really have separate stories while they're all bland "good guys" with Anduin-syndrome. To counter having more factions, I'd allow cross-faction PvE. Form raids, parties, dungeons, arena teams with whomever. Only mass pvp is faction specific, and factions that lack a strong population would be able to recruit from the "neutral" race pool for things like bgs and world pvp.

    Horde: Orcs, Trolls, Ogres- story is a focus on survival after losing the Tauren, Forsaken, and Blood Elves. They go back to being savages in a savage land with threats from quillboars, centaurs, night elves, and now tauren. I'd especially focus their story on building up a new warchief in the vein of Garrosh or Orgrim Doomhammer opposed by someone more akin to Thrall. Give them options and maybe even let players decide who takes control down the line.

    Treehuggers: Not an official faction name, but the Night Elves and Tauren forming a druidic alliance that seeks to preserve and heal Azeroth. The meddling industrial Alliance, the abominable Forsaken, and the savage, bloodthirsty Horde are both problems to their much more naturalist way of life. Their story focus would focus on renewal and rebirth, preservation and trying to mitigate the cost of conflict in a chaotic world that never seems to stop encroaching upon them. Do they remain isolationist? Do they venture out and try more proactive solutions?

    The Alliance: The stalwart, "noble" self-described good faction of the world that seeks to spread its goodness like the good people they are. Having a holier-than-thou zealot like Turalyon on the throne makes it even better. "Convert or die" mentality. Seeks to snuff out enemies that have cost far too many human, dwarven, and gnomish lives over the past several wars. "The greater good" is their mantra, and they seek to spread it across the world. You either fall in line, or perish as they have no room for dissent. Naturally, this chafes a lot of people, and so the Alliance gets to deal with all the inner conflict. Political maneuvers, backstabbing, an introduction to nobility and expanding upon human kingdoms. Dwarven nations fracturing alongside the humans as they are pulled in different directions. Theirs is a story of identity and politics, quelling threats from both within and without.

    The Edgelords: Forsaken, Worgen, Blood Elves: As I envision it, Blood Elves get their Sunwell nuked again and go back to being mana vampires. The worgen curse becomes an actual curse again and not just a cool appearance option and they start losing their minds to more primal urges: like biting people and ripping them apart. The Forsaken go back to being twisted, morally vacant mirrors of themselves in life. All in all, they wind up being a sort of reformed Lordaeron Alliance living in its teenage goth years. The world is out to get them, they hate themselves and live out of spite, but somehow they work together in order to help solve their collective issues and stop others from wiping them off the face of Azeroth. A story that focuses on their dual natures, potential cures for their maladies, and companionship brought about by their collective states of misery.

    Neutral: Furry races like vulpera and Pandaren are just fodder for the war machines. Goblins are capitalists first, so they go where the money is. Allied races fit in with the races their based on, except void elves who stay Alliance and Nightborne who remain neutral. I'll throw demon hunters and death knights here as well. They don't have a reason to be in a faction imo.

    All in all the factions would be more aligned by world views, struggles, and situations while internally dealing with their shortcomings and issues. All of them would be imperfect. Naturally, none of this is really possible so long as we're running around fighting the next Thanos, so it's just wishful thinking on my part.

  12. #12
    Over 9000! Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonrage View Post

    The Forsaken need the support of the Horde, now more than ever. If they left the Horde, the Alliance could easily exterminate them.
    It could, but why would it? After all, their formal leader is a big nothingburger, and she has Andy's sparky BFF at her side.
    If the Janitor managed to pwn Azeroth:

    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    "Die, wold soul of *incomprehensible mumbling* with your death my plan to *incomoprehensible mumbling* finally fullfilled and *incomprehensible mumbling*!"

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    Dissolve the factions

    Let each race get their own story
    This. The plot is so restricted because the factions need to remain static (or grow).

    The player characters are usually adventurers outside of WOD giving us a rank. Let us be seperate from the faction baggage. Then because having the Horde and Alliance (and whatever other factions) shrink and grow can happen without destroying guilds you can have a narrative where things actually change and evolve.

  14. #14
    It would be interesting to see the integration of the Dark Iron and the Wildhammers in Ironforge's governance and administration outside of the Council of the Three Hammers. For example we could see the Senate of Ironforge having been changed with Dark iron and Wildhammer senators having been elected so all three clans would be represented in the running of Ironforge, with the dilemna of each clan being fairly represented with the Bronzebeards being the most numerous inhabitants of IF and having inhabited alone without the other clans for centuries and thus most likely still being the most numerous here, defending their position as the dominant clan, while the other clans want to be represented equally thus creating tensions and difficulties.

    At the end it would be compromised that 40% of the seats would be Bronzebeard's, while the other clans would have 30% each, which wouldn't really satisfy anyone but at least resolve partially a problem.

    There is also the issue of Dagran Thaurissan, who's by blood the heir of both the Bronzebeard and the Dark Iron clans, but not of the Wildhammers which must mean that it would have taken more than a seat at the council and to be accepted back into IF for the Wildhammer to accept going back and reuniting with their cousins. It's likely that it was arranged for Dagran to marry the or one of Thalstad Wildhammer's daughters to seal the return of the WH.

    - - - Updated - - -

    It would also be good to see how Gnomish government work, and how High Tinkers are elected and if there were gnomes who wanted another High Tinker after Gelbin Mekkatorque's mistake with Sicco Thermaplugg that caused the disaster at Gnomeregan.

  15. #15
    Warchief Magical Mudcrab's Avatar
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    I would have a reformation of the Desolate Council and bring Calia's engagement with the Forsaken called into question. Seriously, why would the Forsaken welcome back someone who: (1) is part of the royal family that was responsible for their deaths and (2) was the only member of the royal family to actively flee from Lordaeron when even people like Garithos fought to defend the people. The remnants of the people of Lordaeron should be asking for her head on a pike, not happily watching as she embeds herself into the Horde's leadership as some quasi-representative for them.
    Sylvanas didn't even win the popular vote, she was elected by an indirect election of representatives. #NotMyWarchief

  16. #16
    The politics between the many human kingdoms would be interesting.

  17. #17
    The Lightbringer chrisisvacant's Avatar
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    I think other factions should be brought in to the fold that don't just disappear. Real, strong factions that exist in Azeroth that are not immediately all good or all bad. No need to make them playable, but you'd want to actually explore the innerworkings of the factions that don't actually align with the two major superpowers and their besties. And going forward, you could see representation from those other superpowers in the fights that matter the most. What if a third major superpower had also arrived in Shadowlands and had their own ideas about how to bring order to the scenario? Why's it always fumbling toward the future between red and blue ideologies?

  18. #18
    Break up the Alliance and Horde and focus more on regional politics. The Dwarves are a kingdom of three clans that were violently separated by civil war, it should be more interesting than it currently is.

  19. #19
    Over 9000! Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhalosh Whalescream View Post
    The politics between the many human kingdoms would be interesting.
    But you can't have actual politics when you have an entire faction of unassailable saints. Why would ever anyone oppose to them, other than to be marked as the baddie or "unreasonable" guy/girl?
    If the Janitor managed to pwn Azeroth:

    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    "Die, wold soul of *incomprehensible mumbling* with your death my plan to *incomoprehensible mumbling* finally fullfilled and *incomprehensible mumbling*!"

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    But you can't have actual politics when you have an entire faction of unassailable saints. Why would ever anyone oppose to them, other than to be marked as the baddie or "unreasonable" guy/girl?
    Indeed. To further iterate, something along the lines of HRE era politics between the human kingdoms would be interesting, some doing their own thing and not really caring what the others think or say being only nominally in the alliance.

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