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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Isn't that a question for Blizzard? I'm not proposing anything, I'm simply stating that the concept itself is functional.



    Right, which means you have no worries about whether or not there is room for future classes.

    LIke I said, everything else you bring up is nothing more than an excuse. And it's an excuse that you will contradict later on, because your intention is not to actually bring up something you're worried about, you're actually trying to catch me in a 'gotcha' moment of contradiction by throwing a bunch of lies and excuses at me. And frankly that doesn't work, because I'm not actually proposing anything or extending my argument beyond functionality and countering your excuses.

    Every time you try and counter something I said, it ends up being something I never said at all. Like how you stated POTM wouldn't make a good Class Skin. And I agreed, because I never said it would either.



    You sure about that? I've been arguing its possibility from the very beginning.

    Again, I'm of the mindset that Blizzard can do anything they want with their IP and make anything possible. And it's not a matter of what we think is possible or not, it's a matter of whether the devs are willing to consider dedicating resources to creating it for the purpose of their design. Again, there's really nothing to counter here since that's how all features in WoW are presented to us - not by fan demand or by democracy, but by the will of the devs.

    If the devs want to incorporate a newly introduced diminutive Fox-based race that no one was asking for instead of the Ogre race which many long-term fans have been expecting and demanding, then they could go ahead and do that. Yet if we were going to talk about what the possibilities are for an Ogre class to be added, it's still gonna rank fairly high on the list of races we know that could be added, because we know the demand for playable Ogres hasn't really waned over time. It's just less expected to happen because we know Blizzard has shown little interest towards making it happen.



    Right, and so the problems associated with POTM being a bad class skin idea stems from you arguing against yourself.

    So there's really no point in asking me what I think about the matter, when the problem is something that only you can answer for yourself. Kinda like if you were vegan and you asked me how I deal with an inability to eat meat. I'm not a vegan so I don't have that problem, and it's a question for you to figure out for yourself anyways.




    Frankly there's no right or wrong answer. There's only different perspectives of what is possible.

    - Sylvanas is not a Hunter, and her unique themes can be represented by new class(es)
    - Sylvanas is only a Hunter, and everything she does should be funneled back into the Hunter class as additive themes and abilities


    Associating Jailer magic to Dark Rangers is really just your interpretation, which is no different than someone else thinking Dark Rangers and Jailer Magic would all work fine in the Hunter class, or believing that Hunters, Dark Rangers and a 'Dominator' that uses Jailer magic could be three different classes. It's all up to how you choose to percieve the possibiliities, while my perspective is akin to Schrodingers Cat; they're both possible and we don't know which will happen until we get there.


    I mean if you asked me if Blizzard would add another Elf race that branched off from Night Elves thousands of years ago and chose to retain Arcane magic as a core part of their society, I'd say we probably don't need it since we already have Thallasians represent that in game. But Blizzard chose to throw in Nightborne all the same. And they made Void Elves playable too.

    I already think having 2-Spec Demon Hunters who aren't very well differentiated from Warlocks is already dumb. Doesn't mean I didn't expect Demon Hunters to be added to the game, I was always aware of the possibilities since Paladins exist alongside Priests, creating precedent for having multiple classes with overlapping themes and gameplay. So whether Blizzard would make a 'Dominator' class on top of Dark Rangers and Hunters is really based on what the devs are willing to do. Do I think it would happen? Not likely, since I don't think Dark Ranger is very likely to happen in the first place. It would depend on how influential the writers are to the creative process and whether the devs are willing to create (multiple?) new class based on Sylvanas.
    @Syegfryed. Read this. He articulates very well the situation and how I view it also.

    At the end of the day, I think it would be very cool to play those distinct hero or elite classes. I don’t mind if they are not unique gameplays but skins of existing ones.

    Ofc I would prefer they were all unique gameplay style classes. But I’m willing to settle for this if it means getting the fantasy playable. And in some cases I think it’s the perfect cover to introduce new race/class playstyle options. For example blood elves don’t have the shaman playstyle or Druid. But the shaman class doesn’t fit them at all and I think making some blood elf learn shamanism from an orc is a lame way to go about it. I won’t feel excited to play that. But on the other hand if it was a new class concept called Entropist where blood elves have discovered or rediscovered from the Nightborne using the arcane to manipulate elements as adeptly as shaman and elementals themselves. That’s a perfect class skin.

    Botanist for me druids to, since the history indicates a blood elf would really never want to admit learning night elven Druidism unless something changes. Which blizzard can actually change the lore relationship.
    I mean if you asked me if Blizzard would add another Elf race that branched off from Night Elves thousands of years ago and chose to retain Arcane magic as a core part of their society, I'd say we probably don't need it since we already have Thallasians represent that in game. But Blizzard chose to throw in Nightborne all the same. And they made Void Elves playable too.
    @Triceron - I also agree with the point you are making, although I did find your statement about the Nightborne branched off the night elves a bit strange. They don’t feel that way to me, unless you purely meant biological. I found in a bit of a funny statement about Nightborne and void elves. As I understand it, Nightborne technically are still pretty much a Kaldorei society with zero deviation, no branching off from the original society and culture of the Kaldorei - only their physical forms changed a little .

    They are just showing the arcane cultural side of the night elves that the Highborne still practice but the other Darnassians don’t. It’s not a divulged culture, just a side blizzard hadn’t shown in game till now but was always there.

    In fact the Kaldorei have no new culture. The Druidic stuff is very old , the Nightborne arcane is also quite old. And the priesthood has always done what it does. It’s just different parts of the same race. Which while I’m sure @ravenmoon would agree with the above, I must state it is also why I have sometimes felt blizzard don’t need to show Kaldorei civilization again in the Kaldorei with the alliance group. But I understand as a fan he wants the original race to show everything kinda like how the Zandalari are to other trolls. But to me the Nightborne with their other night elven broken isle kin together are more of this than the Kalimdor faction and I’ll be fine with two distinct night elven factions. One Nightborne led and one Darnassian led.

    Void elves are just Thalsssians that the void has altered physically a bit like the Nightwell altered night elves physically again, but the culture is still the same. The void is the focus instead of the light. Same culture.

    Highmountain are basically slightly altered Tauren, same culture, they are just a different community of Tauren with a slightly different look and a nice story of their faction.

    But I guess you an say they branched off. But can you?

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    [MENTION=1140430]
    But I guess you an say they branched off. But can you?
    Considering there is enough significance to make them their own playable race.

    For the most part, even though Dark Irons are Dwarves and Kul Tirans are Humans, I would consider them branches as well, due to some significant physical features differentiating these 'cultures'. It's a tricky thing to assess since we're ultimately talking about fantasy races that have been known to 'magically' evolve into other species.

    Otherwise we'd all be referring to all Elves as types of 'Trolls' while all Dwarves are types of 'Earthborn' and all Humans are types of 'Vrykul'.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    they specifically said they are canon, and they went in the lore to see if the customizations made sense.
    So WIldhammer is now canonically considered playable through Dwarves? That I was not aware of, I assumed it to be purely customizations meant for RP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  3. #223
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    So WIldhammer is now canonically considered playable through Dwarves? That I was not aware of, I assumed it to be purely customizations meant for RP.
    And apparently sand trolls and dark trolls. They are subraces of jungle trolls(darkspear) while wildhammer are subrace of dwarves(irongforge)

    I don't remember the interview but it was when they were adding the customizations for shadowlands, its either Ion or Danouser words, it is for RP but all of then are canon and made sense in the lore, they said they had the work to check with the lore and all to make those.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    @Syegfryed. Read this. He articulates very well the situation and how I view it also.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    And apparently sand trolls and dark trolls. They are subraces of jungle trolls(darkspear) while wildhammer are subrace of dwarves(irongforge)

    I don't remember the interview but it was when they were adding the customizations for shadowlands, its either Ion or Danouser words, it is for RP but all of then are canon and made sense in the lore, they said they had the work to check with the lore and all to make those.
    Wait.

    So is it actually canon or not?

    That they checked with sources to make it canonical but still only provide them as customizations for the purpose of RP and not actually *refer in game lore* as being Wildhammers, Sand Trolls and Dark Trolls, still doesn't make them canon.

    What I'm asking is if Sand Trolls and Dark Trolls (which aren't part of the Horde canonically) are now actually playable as Horde characters in the lore.

    I personally haven't seen any indication of this, which is why I'm asking.

    I don't want to be making some argument months down the line and say 'Oh well Wildhammers don't need their own Allied Race because they're already playable. Some guy told me' and it turns out that Wildhammers aren't actually canonically playable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  5. #225
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Wait.

    So is it actually canon or not?

    That they checked with sources to make it canonical but still only provide them as customizations for the purpose of RP and not actually *refer in game lore* as being Wildhammers, Sand Trolls and Dark Trolls, still doesn't make them canon.

    What I'm asking is if Sand Trolls and Dark Trolls (which aren't part of the Horde canonically) are now actually playable as Horde characters in the lore.

    I personally haven't seen any indication of this, which is why I'm asking.
    Yes, it is canon, you can rp then because it is canon.

    i actually found the interview here:

    Is the lore team consulted on customization options?
    The team was consulted on various options to determine if they were appropriate or not to the lore and universe. They are 100% on board with all of the options.
    They just didn't want to add a new starting zone/experience to every single one of then:

    can't make a starting experience for every subset, it would consume so many resources.
    https://www.wowhead.com/news/liveblo...sin-and-311970

  6. #226
    Oh! That's very cool then, I wasn't aware that was formally canonized.

    Okay, that's really good to know. Thanks for the source!
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Yes. Nightborne are unbelievably similar to Blood elves. But, if i had to guess, they wanted a Drow race or a Highborne Night elf one. Same as with Void elves. They probably wanted a Dark elf race.
    No. They simply wanted to show pre sundering night elf society. Blood elves are modelled off this to connect to night elves. But the similarity is more superficial than people realise.

    It’s because since TBC blizzard has only emphasised the differences between the two elf groups rather than the similarities.

    But the night elves of dire Mail were in the same pre sundering culture , we just aren’t shown.
    This is because blood elves are a modified Highborne society based on the sun, this is Kaldorei civilization minus Elunism and a less intense nature love, which is basically how the Highborne night elves are like, complete with higher arcane love. Except the high elves are written to have a less intense obsession having gained better wisdom than the hubris of the highbrow. (therefore superior morally even if with a lessened magical intensity - the night elf extreme obsession is not viewed as positive, but the degree in the high elves is better. The high elves also add new elements of the light and a less crazy forest love, but that remains to from their original night elf root. The original night elf has those arcane elements combined with the priesthood and a deep nature love.


    In Suramar they just focused on the arcane side of the night elves. This is most similar to the blood elves but it is 100% night elven. It would have felt more different if the priesthood’s influence and nature love was shown or reflected in the society. But blizzard wanted to show a night elf society that co to yes focusing on magic in that intense way in presundering tomes. So we see little to no influence of Elunism until the Val’sharah refugees come and we see some
    Nature love, but one that seems closer to the blood elf one than the night elf one - but the story is clear it is a night elf per sundering arcane society version, even though that feels similar to blood elves. This is night elven arcane side on its own without Priesthood influence and without druids. But they just wanted the arcane side to show.

    And made a point to show that without their nature counterpart the Nightborne are doomed. So this is the part that is restored with the Arcan’dor to heal them and make them whole. Which probably means this one sided arcane culture was not meant to continue after the events of legion. But the Nightborne were planned to gain a more natural Kaldorei balance. Which is why I guess they had jightmelves like Farodin and Night eyes as well as Val’sharah priests and Moonguard very much involved.

    Okay. I guess I see Ravenmoon’s point now. He still wants the night elves to show that complete picture of all 3 together which is what the original pre sundering society was at its purest. Whereas the Nightborne as we saw them in 7.0 were only the arcane portion of the night elves hence why it feels very similar to the blood elves who are presented as heavily arcane at first although now we feel a bit different thanks to the Light influence from Liadrin. And they still have to emphasise the Farstrider side. This would give us less arcane feel and feel more distinct from the Nightborne and the night elves.

    The thing is the confusion comes from us fans expecting the elven groups to feel totally distinct, but I don’t think that’s how blizzard approached them in the original design. Lol. I laugh cos I am guilty of this too.


    In the original the night elves were the embodiment of all things supposed to be pure elven as the origin race without human influence, to feel a bit more distinct than just purple elves. The intense magic, intense arcane, intense nature and intense religion compared to the more mellowed out and more humanised high elves who had a measure of their original night elven heritage with magic and nature love but had a more humanised feel and development.

    This I feel changed during wow where they pushed night elves more to the forest side than the original all encompassing elf origin race. I noted NElf fans who’d read the lore seemed to want night elves more at that original level of all round elf maestros rather than just 1/4 of the elven whole. The forest quarter.

    Honestly it’s up to blizzard. Are each elven groups their own full peoples or are they just a sector of an elven whole?

    I feel their presentation in game makes them each feel like a sector of a whole, but in lore they are more whole societies and fully fledged peoples having no one thing to them. But each having multiple areas they are strong in. Which has been the stance of the NElf fans for a while.

    I think older fans use to other fantasies, especially DND based worlds and games like EQ and NWN are use to elf races being based on a type rather than a whole race. Each elf race has one thing. And they have largely treated the wow elves like that. But blizzard keeps showing us differently.

    Blood elves aren’t the arcane elves of wow. We see that night elves are very arcane in some of their communities, even more so than blood elves, Nightborne are even more so than blood elves as a whole society and void elves are more magically based to - so how can blood elves be THE arcane elves ? It’s not an accurate model.

    It would be more accurate to say blood elves are the Light elves since the light plays a huge role and is more unique to then. But you can’t. Because the arcane is quite strong with the blood elves and even stronger than the light. But no other elven group does the light as good as the blood elves.

    So are they the light elves? Well no, they aren’t any more than the night elves are the forest elves because that classification system doesn’t work in wow. Because wow hasn’t done it’s elven races like that. But the in game focus on the night elves on Druidism and the forest and the in game focus on blood elves on the arcane in both their starting areas made that seem so. It’s given the illusion of the old DND system but it isn’t like that. The lore pointed out more.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Oh! That's very cool then, I wasn't aware that was formally canonized.

    Okay, that's really good to know. Thanks for the source!
    Yes. It was formally canonised. They just didn’t want to do starting experiences or allied races for every combination that a customisation could cover.

    Basically they don’t want you to feel that the text in the dwarf starting area while written for ironforge dwarves doesnt mean that your wildhammer that starts in Coleridge is instead an ironforge because the quests.

    He says you can essentially play the character as a wildhammer dwarf and this is canon even though you are doing the Dun Morogh.

    This is why void elf players can now have their pale skinned elves as actually high elves and not necessarily void elves who haven’t changed - which is also an option as well as being high elves who study the void or just joining the ren’dorei as highbelves or just not associated with the ren’dorei.

    This led to calls on the EU forums for them to slightly re arrange the labelling on customisations on character creation or create templates for each of the options that players could click on , like wildhammer or sand troll and it would load options that had the tattoos. While if you clocked in the Bronzebeard it would load options without tattoos. You can then add or remove tattoos in further customisation.

    Players suggested this just to make it easier to legitimise the options as something.

    It was a huge post. But blizzard has t done anything yet on that front.

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by starstationprofm View Post
    Night Elves should not have Paladins. They don't have knights. They don't traditionally fight in heavy armor, or with shields.
    It already exists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Oh, man... i need this for Beloren's replies.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    It already exists.



    Oh, man... i need this for Beloren's replies.
    Didn’t think you struggled with the longer posts. Sometimes it’s warranted

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    It already exists.
    Where exactly?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Huntresses have shields and wear plated armor.
    They still aren't knights

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by starstationprofm View Post
    They still aren't knights
    Neither are Night Warrior class skins for Paladin, which is the alternative being discussed.

    No one has actually been talking about Night Elves as Knights and Paladins. We're talking about a Night Elf class that simply uses Paladin gameplay while using unique Night Elf customizations and visuals for weapons, animations and spell FX. Lunar magic instead of anything Holy, Glaives instead of Swords and Warhammers, etc.

    It's like how Dark Irons are based on Dwarves, but not actually the Dwarf race option. Dark Irons get their own visual customizations, own heritage armor sets and mounts, own voice lines and dance animations, and their own set of racials. All they share with Dwarf is the basic model and skeleton.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-07-14 at 09:12 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    Didn’t think you struggled with the longer posts. Sometimes it’s warranted
    It's a bit exhausting. Same as with Triceron's and Ravenmoon's. I'm gonna put my own meme:


    Quote Originally Posted by starstationprofm View Post
    Where exactly?
    Delas Moonfang, a Night elf Paladin:


    No Night Warrior, no nothing. A proper Paladin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    No one has actually been talking about Night Elves as Knights and Paladins. We're talking about a Night Elf class that simply uses Paladin gameplay while using unique Night Elf customizations and visuals for weapons, animations and spell FX. Lunar magic instead of anything Holy, Glaives instead of Swords and Warhammers, etc.
    What? all you guys have been talking about is how the Night Warrior feels like a Paladin because of the themes of vengeance, melee combat, and faith.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    It's a bit exhausting. Same as with Triceron's and Ravenmoon's. I'm gonna put my own meme:




    Delas Moonfang, a Night elf Paladin:


    No Night Warrior, no nothing. A proper Paladin.



    What? all you guys have been talking about is how the Night Warrior feels like a Paladin because of the themes of vengeance, melee combat, and faith.
    Well yes. As a faith warrior, sentinels and night warrior are paladins of their faith. But they are not Light Paladins class.

    Deals Moonfang would be a light paladin. But I could skin a bow and Glauber wielding sentinel skin for Paladin or a night warrior one, even though their are examples of light paladins.

    Because the Light is not a major religion of the night elves , it’s not even a minor one, it’s a one off. Maybe about 3 individuals max, I don’t see why it should be a night elf class.

    If they make the class playable it would be as a sentinel or night warrior adaptation. But what they should do is for it to be a paladins skin that is the default for night elves and Nightborne , then allow these guys to optionally train/convert to the light version skin that is default on most races by visiting a trainer if they prefer to follow in the likes of Delas Moonfang.

    At the moment no such system exists. Without it it would be the same as blood elf palas, Tauren palad, Kul’tirans shaman, Zandalari and Kul’tirans druids who aren’t really the traditional versions of those classes. In fact in many respects they are different classes just close or at least definitely different class skins but the current doesn’t distinguish.

  14. #234
    Night Elfs already got Wardens and even their Priests are already faith-based (to varying degrees). The slow-moving Paladin really does not fit their race fantasy and even less the fantasy of a night warrior. There are already other races that cover the Paladin fantasy so much better than Night Elfs and I prefer to keep it that way.
    I don't think that Night Warrior should be a DH skin either. Personally, I think it is sad that other classes can't use Glaives since Sentinels always used moon glaves.

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellspawn View Post
    Night Elfs already got Wardens and even their Priests are already faith-based (to varying degrees). The slow-moving Paladin really does not fit their race fantasy and even less the fantasy of a night warrior. There are already other races that cover the Paladin fantasy so much better than Night Elfs and I prefer to keep it that way.
    I don't think that Night Warrior should be a DH skin either. Personally, I think it is sad that other classes can't use Glaives since Sentinels always used moon glaves.
    But that’s a fantasy concept not a playstyle concept.

    To fit the sentinel fantasy accurate. You would expect a warrior where some of the abilities have a magical dimension to them and glaives are useable, also bow and arrow altho who says huntresses can’t also be a wing of the sentinels.

    It’s clear blizzard really hasn’t gone into that much detail about them.

    But if it’s just a fantasy - why can’t the warrior playstyle or the paladin playstyle suffice with modifications to the visual effects and weapons used?

    That is essentially a class skin. Does it have to be a new playstyle altogether? Even if it uses the warrior or paladin as its base or its playstyle it still isn’t a warrior or Pala but a sentinel and a night warrior. It is still something different as Triceron so well articulated

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    Well yes. As a faith warrior, sentinels and night warrior are paladins of their faith. But they are not Light Paladins class.
    No, they aren't.
    It's like saying Witch Doctors and Shadow Hunters are Troll Paladins of their faith because they believe in Loas, and we know Troll Priests and Paladins draw their light from them. But, this isn't the case. They're not Paladins just because they have a certain faith. They are a completely different thing. A sort of tribal ritualist.

    Deals Moonfang would be a light paladin. But I could skin a bow and Glauber wielding sentinel skin for Paladin or a night warrior one, even though their are examples of light paladins.
    Delas Moonfang is not a Paladin of the Holy Light. She is a Paladin of Elune (a direct evolution of her Priestess role). It is simply not represented in her abilities, just like how Sunwalkers aren't.

    Because the Light is not a major religion of the night elves , it’s not even a minor one, it’s a one off. Maybe about 3 individuals max, I don’t see why it should be a night elf class.
    A [lacking] representation of their faith. Just like Sunwalkers. That's why.

    If they make the class playable it would be as a sentinel or night warrior adaptation. But what they should do is for it to be a paladins skin that is the default for night elves and Nightborne , then allow these guys to optionally train/convert to the light version skin that is default on most races by visiting a trainer if they prefer to follow in the likes of Delas Moonfang.
    I disagree. Night Warriors and Sentinels differ from it.

    At the moment no such system exists. Without it it would be the same as blood elf palas, Tauren palad, Kul’tirans shaman, Zandalari and Kul’tirans druids who aren’t really the traditional versions of those classes. In fact in many respects they are different classes just close or at least definitely different class skins but the current doesn’t distinguish.
    That's exactly what it would be like. So, why do you believe Night elves should get a special treatment while Sunwalkers, Tidesages, Blood Knights, Thornspeakers, Raptari & Lun'alai shouldn't? that's unfair.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellspawn View Post
    Night Elfs already got Wardens and even their Priests are already faith-based (to varying degrees). The slow-moving Paladin really does not fit their race fantasy and even less the fantasy of a night warrior. There are already other races that cover the Paladin fantasy so much better than Night Elfs and I prefer to keep it that way.
    I don't think that Night Warrior should be a DH skin either. Personally, I think it is sad that other classes can't use Glaives since Sentinels always used moon glaves.
    Amen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    But if it’s just a fantasy - why can’t the warrior playstyle or the paladin playstyle suffice with modifications to the visual effects and weapons used?
    It can. But, not arbitrarily like applying a Night Warrior to a Paladin or a Demon Hunter.

    You want to play a sentinel? great. That would be a Warrior, Rogue and Hunter skins.

    But, leave the Night Warrior out of it. Because none of them would use spells.
    Last edited by username993720; 2021-07-15 at 12:17 PM.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    What? all you guys have been talking about is how the Night Warrior feels like a Paladin because of the themes of vengeance, melee combat, and faith.
    Nothing wrong with that either.

    It's like saying Witch Doctors and Shadow Hunters are Troll Paladins of their faith because they believe in Loas
    That's exactly what Zandalari Prelates are. They are Paladins of their faith because they believe in the Loa of Kings/Light, Rezan.

    Witchdoctors and Shadow Hunters aren't 'Warriors of Light'. It's not the difference in faith that matters, it's the lack of a connection to any form of the Light.

    We're talking about Paladins as a class that has gone through many changes to accept different Warriors of Light of different faiths and cultures.
    - Blood Knights who tap powers of the Naaru, and now the Sunwell
    - Vindicators who follow the Naaru
    - Sunwalkers who use druidic worship of the Sun
    - Dark Iron Paladins are not explicitly explained how or where they draw the Light from, just assumed that they use Holy Light
    - Zandalari Prelates are followers of the Loa Rezan

    This can absolutely be extended to a Warrior of Light who serves Elune. We simply don't have Blizzard making this official connection to any type of class in game, but that pretty much is what a Sentinel who wields the light of Elune could be, like how Delas Moonfang was a POTM and became an official Paladin.

    Delas Moonfang opens up the possibility of a Night Elf Paladin. And the discussion at hand is how a Class Skin could better serve these race/class combos better, by allowing more customization options. It doesn't start and stop with Night Elves, we're just discussing it as a basis of the topic, but it could absolutely extend to all the different Paladin types mentioned above and having each get their own flavour of Spell FX or unique weapon skins/animations as a means to help differentiate each race and make them feel unique.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-07-15 at 03:49 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Nothing wrong with that either.
    So, don't tell us you weren't.

    That's exactly what Zandalari Prelates are. They are Paladins of their faith because they believe in the Loa of Kings/Light, Rezan.
    That's correct. Prelates. Not Witch Doctors. Not Shadow Hunters. You'd be wise to make that distinction.

    Witchdoctors and Shadow Hunters aren't 'Warriors of Light'. It's not the difference in faith that matters, it's the lack of a connection to any form of the Light.
    "The Shadow Hunters walk the line between darkness and light in hopes of salvaging the future for their savage brethren."

    We're talking about Paladins as a class that has gone through many changes to accept different Warriors of Light of different faiths and cultures.
    - Blood Knights who tap powers of the Naaru, and now the Sunwell
    - Vindicators who follow the Naaru
    - Sunwalkers who use druidic worship of the Sun
    - Dark Iron Paladins are not explicitly explained how or where they draw the Light from, just assumed that they use Holy Light
    - Zandalari Prelates are followers of the Loa Rezan
    1) You just said Loa followes do not have any connection to the light, so how is it that prelates are on this list?

    2)We already have a warrior of the light in the Night elves. She's called Delas Moonfang and she sure as hell not a Night Warrior.

    This can absolutely be extended to a Warrior of Light who serves Elune. We simply don't have Blizzard making this official connection to any type of class in game, but that pretty much is what a Sentinel who wields the light of Elune could be, like how Delas Moonfang was a POTM and became an official Paladin.
    A Sentinel is not a Paladin. It's either a Warrior, a Rogue or a Hunter.

    Yes, exactly. Delas Moonfang is an official Paladin and you acknowledge it. So what's all this nonsense about Night Warriors being Paladins?

    Delas Moonfang opens up the possibility of a Night Elf Paladin. And the discussion at hand is how a Class Skin could better serve these race/class combos better, by allowing more customization options. It doesn't start and stop with Night Elves, we're just discussing it as a basis of the topic, but it could absolutely extend to all the different Paladin types mentioned above and having each get their own flavour of Spell FX or unique weapon skins/animations as a means to help differentiate each race and make them feel unique.
    Once again, you finally got it. Delas Moonfang is the representation of a Night elf Paladin, not the Night Warriors. So, the class skin should apply to her.

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    So, don't tell us you weren't.
    Weren't what?

    That's correct. Prelates. Not Witch Doctors. Not Shadow Hunters. You'd be wise to make that distinction.
    Yes, you would too.

    Night Elf 'Warriors of Light' who serve Elune would not be equivalent of Witchdoctors or Shadow Hunters, they would be equivalents of Sunwalkers and Prelates.

    The Shadow Hunters walk the line between darkness and light =/= Warrior of Light.

    Once again, you finally got it. Delas Moonfang is the representation of a Night elf Paladin, not the Night Warriors. So, the class skin should apply to her.
    All Night Elves have the power to take up the mantle of the Night Warrior, so really it's up to Blizzard to decide how they choose to represent it.

    Night Warrior is an extreme form of devotion to Elune, involving rituals and invoking her battle form. There is nothing mutually exclusive to being a Paladin or frankly any class.

    So the class skin can really apply to either class, because ultimately it is a Class Skin.

    And as a point of discussion, there can be more than one class skin for a Race/Class combo. You can have a Forsaken Warlock and a Forsaken Necromancer Class Skin based on Warlock; two different flavours of the same class gameplay for the same race. Or a Blood Elf Paladin and a Blood Elf Spellbreaker class skin that swaps Holy Light for Arcane. In this example, Night Warrior would just be a class skin while they could still have a more standard Race/Class combo akin to Delas Moonfang.

    In terms of discussing the concept, there's nothing mutually exclusive about it. The Night Warrior is not a defined concept, so it can literally be a class skin of Hunter, Mage or Rogue if we want to discuss the merits of certain race/class comboes.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-07-15 at 04:25 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Weren't what?
    No one has actually been talking about Night Elves as Knights and Paladins. We're talking about a Night Elf class that simply uses Paladin gameplay while using unique Night Elf customizations and visuals for weapons, animations and spell FX. Lunar magic instead of anything Holy, Glaives instead of Swords and Warhammers, etc.

    Night Elf 'Warriors of Light' who serve Elune would not be equivalent of Witchdoctors or Shadow Hunters, they would be equivalents of Sunwalkers and Prelates.
    A Shadow Hunter is not a Warrior of the Loas? he uses a Glaive, just like the Night Warrior, and believes in the Loa, just like prelates.

    And yes, there already exists one such Warrior of Light who serves Elune: Delas Moonfang.

    The Shadow Hunters walk the line between darkness and light =/= Warrior of Light.
    You wanted light. Sounds like a Discipline priest to me.

    All Night Elves have the power to take up the mantle of the Night Warrior, so really it's up to Blizzard to decide how they choose to represent it.
    But only Tyrande Whisperwind became a fully fledged one. So, it's an evolved Priestess of the Moon class.

    Night Warrior is an extreme form of devotion to Elune, involving rituals and invoking her battle form. There is nothing mutually exclusive to being a Paladin or frankly any class.
    Exactly. That's why it's special.

    So the class skin can really apply to either class, because ultimately it is a Class Skin.
    Nah, that's just not thinking it through.

    And as a point of discussion, there can be more than one class skin for a Race/Class combo. You can have a Forsaken Warlock and a Forsaken Necromancer Class Skin based on Warlock; two different flavours of the same class gameplay for the same race. Or a Blood Elf Paladin and a Blood Elf Spellbreaker class skin that swaps Holy Light for Arcane. In this example, Night Warrior would just be a class skin while they could still have a more standard Race/Class combo akin to Delas Moonfang.
    I agree with the Necromancer skin for Warlocks, as their lore says they often use this art for necromancy, like the Apothecary society.

    Spellbreaker would most likely be a Warrior skin, not a Paladin. A Blood elf Paladin is a Blood Knight.

    Delas Moonfang = class skin.

    Tyrande whisperwing = new class.

    In terms of discussing the concept, there's nothing mutually exclusive about it. The Night Warrior is not a defined concept, so it can literally be a class skin of Hunter, Mage or Rogue if we want to discuss the merits of certain race/class comboes.
    Well, you see, that's where i disagree. You just arbitrarily apply the Night Warrior to whatever is out there when the archetype is pretty much well defined. It uses glaives, it uses archery, it's extremely agile, it uses lunar magic, it calls on a pet, it might include becoming a lunar missile. But, it's definitely not a Mage. If we take it as an evolution of a PotM, then Hunter makes some sense, since they are some sort of rangers.
    Last edited by username993720; 2021-07-15 at 04:43 PM.

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