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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    Why should they be able stealth? Just e void magic is used? Different classes can obviously use the same power to do different things because they have a different skill set.


    It s like saying just cause a warrior can tip toe or try to sneak that he should be able to stealth. Warriors aren’t trained to use their physical bodies that way. Nor are priests trained to use the void in that way
    Priests historically have had things like Fade, Mind Soothe, Spectral Guise and more to evade detection from mobs before. I'm not especially strongly for Night Warriors to use Void magic or not necessarily, as I think it'd be reasonable for them to be able to do either. I think there's grounds for a dark side of the moon kind of fantasy to work for Night Warrior to explain Void-type magic, or for a Night-focus to empower that kind of shadow magic. The Shadowmeld racial and even Nightsabers themselves are tied to Elune to allow for deception, stealth, and evasion as a blessing by her. I don't think many would consider this a 'holy' ability, but even if people did we know Rogues at least some of them (though not all, again I probably have to clarify that,) can use Void for their stealth as has been cited a couple times at least by this point via 'A Good War' and 'Safe Haven'. To expand on this, Rogues and Feral Druids that do Stealth are better at it via racials, presumably also as a blessing by Elune as their other racials are. As Stealth can be associated with Void, this would imply that to some extent Elune has some hand in Void and that it can be a blessing bestowed upon those she favors in this manner. To clarify my stance, I think the Paladin angle is the cooler angle personally. But as far as Void magic goes for Night Warrior I could believe a connection there.

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    At this point it's fairly obvious that Night Warrior wont be a thing.

    I would like to see a Demon Hunter class skin for it though.
    Why off it obvious? At the very least I expect Nightborne and night elves to get the Tyrande customisations

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    You can’t make assertions of going mad when so little info is known. Shadow priest use void but don’t go mad. And they use a lot.

    What quantity constitutes madness?

    How does madness work when using void magic? Priests are the ones associated with madness not rogues but namely priests call on entities via worship for their power which means that it is likely those entities (void lords) that induce madness.

    We aren’t told so we don’t know. And must just rely on what we are shown.

    Void elves don’t get mad from using the void. Altho we have examples of some skittering on the edge of sanity, most do not. We are told how Alleria can with stand the whispers via her training with the locus Walker and that her race is elves are unique here. Though not all elves who use void retain sanity, but they didn’t have her training.

    We know Umbric and others are Mage scholars, their void magic approach is more scientific not beseeching entities, that could greatly help in minimising insanity.

    We just don’t know how it all works to assert rogue go mad
    "Insanity is the secondary resource for Shadow priests"


    Insanity (removed)
    Level 45 Shadow priest talent
    Passive
    Consuming Shadow Orbs transforms your Mind Flay into Insanity, and your Mind Sear into Searing Insanity, for 2 sec per Shadow Orb consumed. These spells deals 100% additional damage.

    Mastery: Madness (removed)
    Level 78 Shadow priest ability
    Passive
    Increases the damage of your Shadow Word: Pain, Vampiric Touch, Mind Blast, Mind Flay, Mind Sear, Void Eruption, and Void Bolt by 9.6%.

    Death and Madness
    Talent
    Requires Priest (Shadow)
    Requires level 15
    If a target dies within 7 sec after being struck by your Shadow Word: Death, you gain 40 Insanity over 4 sec and the cooldown of your Shadow Word: Death is reset.

    Ancient Madness
    Talent
    Requires Priest (Shadow)
    Requires level 50
    Voidform increases your critical strike chance by 30% for 15 sec, reducing by 2% every sec.

    Surrender to Madness
    Instant 3 min cooldown
    Requires Priest
    All your Insanity-generating abilities generate 100% more Insanity and you can cast while moving for 1 min.

    Then, you take damage equal to 90% of your maximum health and cannot generate Insanity for 15 sec.

    Driven to Madness PvP Talent
    Tank Specs – Row 1 PvP Talent
    Requires Priest (Shadow)
    Requires level 23
    While Voidform is not active, being attacked will reduce the cooldown of Void Eruption by 3 sec.
    Commenting on these forums is like walking on eggshells - you never know where the next infraction is gonna come from.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    I really wish WoW had more fun when it came to role fantasy on top of the gameplay class possibilities. We don't need new classes to add more flavor to the world, at least not strictly.
    Yes. We definitely need the new fantasies and roles in the hands of the players. A new playstyle is not that urgent.

    Technically we have like 35 already? Surely we can reuse those and reskin them for all the classes we want and some new race class combos too like botanist blood elves skin for druids

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Considering there is enough significance to make them their own playable race.

    For the most part, even though Dark Irons are Dwarves and Kul Tirans are Humans, I would consider them branches as well, due to some significant physical features differentiating these 'cultures'. It's a tricky thing to assess since we're ultimately talking about fantasy races that have been known to 'magically' evolve into other species.

    Otherwise we'd all be referring to all Elves as types of 'Trolls' while all Dwarves are types of 'Earthborn' and all Humans are types of 'Vrykul'.

    [.
    It’s kind of obvious Nightborne are types of night elves though, not some new race or nee race of elves but a new type of nightbelf.

    It is night elf culture, night elf city and even their appearance is closer to the night elf than any other race. The difference is literally the tips of the ears curving upwards and that isn’t the case in every Nightborne and then having that anorexic look.

    They exactly ti night elves what void elves are to blood elves and what Zandalari trolls are to darkspeesrd, or Highmountain to Tauren.

    You aren’t going to be viewing them as trolls. And I’m not sure about the Vrykul comparison. Humans seem much close to Vrykul than elves are to trolls. Elves had a total metamorphological transformation from trolls. Regardless of the means to get there. Whereas humans are literally stunted flesh Vrykul.

  5. #265
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    Why off it obvious? At the very least I expect Nightborne and night elves to get the Tyrande customisations
    They already have Nightwarrior customizations;

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/hnewman...h=453e12fa75d3

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Neither are Night Warrior class skins for Paladin, which is the alternative being discussed.

    No one has actually been talking about Night Elves as Knights and Paladins. We're talking about a Night Elf class that simply uses Paladin gameplay while using unique Night Elf customizations and visuals for weapons, animations and spell FX. Lunar magic instead of anything Holy, Glaives instead of Swords and Warhammers, etc.

    It's like how Dark Irons are based on Dwarves, but not actually the Dwarf race option. Dark Irons get their own visual customizations, own heritage armor sets and mounts, own voice lines and dance animations, and their own set of racials. All they share with Dwarf is the basic model and skeleton.
    I’m amazed at how you can grasp this so easily and others cannot. Sometimes I wonder if I wrote it in Polish or Greek or something.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    They already have Nightwarrior customizations;

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/hnewman...h=453e12fa75d3
    Not the glowing tattoos on the new model in the nee cinematic against Sykvanas

  7. #267
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    Not the glowing tattoos on the new model in the nee cinematic against Sykvanas
    So you want a particular customization based on something briefly shown in a single cutscene?

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Paladins aren't just warriors of faith, otherwise any Druid could be considered a Paladin.

    The connection between all Paladins is being specifically a Warrior of the Light. And not just a Warrior *who is able to use light*, but one that draws their power from their faith and uses it to channel light exclusively. Paladins generally do not use any other power except the Light; barring any Covenant or Borrowed Power shenanigans



    Yes, who can open up to other Night Elves. But what is true is that right now, other Night Elves are not Knights and Paladins. She's an exception to the rule, not the rule itself, and the conversation isn't about having Night Elves all become Paladins, it's about taking Night Elf Sentinels and Huntresses as examples and applying that they could simply learn to channel the power of Elune to become their own form of Warrior of the Light that doesn't have to be the Delas Moonfang style of Paladin. It can be a Paladin that retains the Night Elf culture.

    Delas Moonfang formally adopts the Holy Light. She is no longer a Priestess of Elune. This is reflected in her current voice lines, which are all about the Light, and nothing about Elune. She is the only example of a Night Elf who has joined the Silver Hand and adopted the Holy Light, as all other Night Elf Priests and Warriors still serve Elune exclusively.



    What do you mean 'You wanted light'?



    So you're saying Blizzard can only make Priestess of the Moon into Night Warriors and can never make them out of any other class? You are telling me Blizzard can not define the class that they made up?



    Because that is the topic of this thread. That you disagree doesn't change the matter of this being the topic of the thread.



    Blizzard defines this, not you.

    Sunwalkers use Druidism to channel the power of the sun. Blizzard says they are a Paladin. That they use Druidism isn't something you can arbitrarily dismiss as 'definitely not a Paladin' just because you wish so.

    Another example is Gnome Priest. Gnomes are agnostic and do not believe in religion or faith. A Gnome Priest is effectively a surgeon or battle medic. That is the lore. That Blizzard does not correlate the gameplay to support the lore doesn't mean the lore is not canon. So Night Warrior really exists in lore, and *does not have to be* represented in gameplay. That's why I am making an example of them being able to be a Mage, because Blizzard doesn't have to have the gameplay represent the lore at all.

    If a Gnome Surgeon can exist as a canonical representation of Gnome Priest in lore, and does not have ANY gameplay mechanics that reflect this title, it does not mean it is not formally canon. Blizzard says its canon, therefore it is.

    And this applies to Night Warrior, which has not been given any canonical representation as any one defined class. Not even as Priestess of the Moon. It will be whatever Blizzard canonically defines it as in terms of a playable class, otherwise it is just a title that can be applied whichever way it exists right now. And my example is, Blizzard can decide that a Night Warrior should canonically be applied as a Class Skin to a Mage class, despite all the things that don't make sense Just like Gnome Doctors/Medics/Surgeons are applied as canonical representation of the Priest class, even if it makes no sense through gameplay whatsoever.
    Nice. Very well said. Very well said.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Why have Sunwalker lore be tied to Druidism sun worship, and not just be a Tauren who takes up the Holy Light religion?

    Why not just have all Paladins learn to use the Holy Light the same way Monks all learn to use Pandaren style Martial Arts? I mean the question you're asking is not really the point here. The point is whether it would make sense, and considering Blizzard has examples of both Races who adopt a religion/faith/fighting style and a Race who applies their own culture to a class, then a Night Warrior can go both ways. And in Beloren's example, we're talking about wanting to see Night Elf culture represented using Glaives as a Class Skin on an existing Melee-centric class that uses magic.
    Exactly. Blizzard themselves already do this in how they have applied different races using different classes. And in some cases by the lore they are barely related. It seems to me they more interested in giving a playstyle but just didn’t dress the class in a race appropriate skin to reflect it.

    Hope they can evolve their presentation to do so. Even some existing combos can have skins.

    Tauren Sunwalkers
    Tauren Seers
    priestesses of the Moon
    Tidesages
    Blood Knights
    Anchorites
    Prelates
    Drust druids
    Zandalari Druids

    Even Highborne and Moonguard mages can have a more star /moon magic arcane Aligi that could be another class concept for night elf / Nightborne mages like an astrologer or star manger or even star Augur

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Actually, they aren't. Seers are. Sunwalkers are formerly Warriors.



    You want the Holy Light religion to be the only way of representation, like the Monk? it's weird enough seeing other races using Pandaren styles and techniques. This is why class skins are required. To better represent these missing race/class combinations. I want a Human Monk to be a Scarlet Crusade one, and a Draenei to be an Auchenai one.



    but lacks archery and pets.



    I don't think it is said that Druids use the light. Unless the Night Warrior can heal, it is still under debate.



    On the contrary. Light of Elune is one of Tyrande's abilities in HotS. So, if the Night Warrior is indeed a PotM, then they can definitely call on the light.
    Light of Elune is not “the lIght” at least we don’t know that for sure.

    Light of Elune is likely Moonlight. And that is arcane, not holy. That’s why it’s called light of Elune and not The Light.

  9. #269
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post

    Wait. Did I miss something?? When did Blizzard officially define sun races?

    Can you provide a source?

    Do they specify how much variation constitutes a sub race? Or is this just your definition??
    He asked me what a subrace is in general, not in wow, but in wow work the same too.

    If you want the source i give to Triceron after that post.

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post

    .



    They use Elune's light. They also have Elune specific talents that directly source Elune. Warrior of Elune, Fury of Elune, just a couple examples. All their moon magic in Balance is derived from her.

    Night Elf Priests use the same Light of Elune to heal and deal damage. Druids only use it offensively, in Balance spec, and not to heal. That is the only difference.

    There is no clause that says any other type of Night Elf class can not use Elune's light too. Racially, every Night Elf has a connection to Elune and the Moon.
    Oh. Yeh. This must be what Ravenmoon, Mace and Feanoro were talking about that if they expanded racial abilities or did a system where you could swap a class ability for a racial one to get a more racial feel to your class via an adapted glyph system, the night elf ones would actually be all star and moon arcane magic spells because this was the one magic type to all three of their classes - the priest, the Druid and the Mage.

    It makes sense anyway that this is a Elune derived power learnt from their connection t to her.

    But I can now see how all night elves could be able to do this. And it would make sense if Night elves got offensive active racial abilities they’d be either a star magic ability (their Elune derived internal power) or a moon magic spell - Elune’s light (likely also cast by then from their arcane connection to the godddess whose powers manifest I. This way.

    It might seem surprising as people might expect night elves to all cast some nature spell. But Elune is the or rather their arcane connection is what is common to all.

    We don’t see priests and mages use nature spells, but they all use these arcane moon and star spells which could be based of Elune or at least the original discovery of how came from the priesthood and was based on their faith even if an actual arcane spell.

    They would call moon light the Light of Elune whether it is actually Elune illuminating or just the moon’s light or their magic drawing the light. It could be any or all 3 or different spells make use of different aspects listed.

    A Night Warrior can be whatever Blizzard wants it to be.

    Canonically speaking, *any Night Elf that unlocks the Black Eyes is a Night Warrior*.



    It doesn't call it 'Black Eyes' or 'Eyes of the Eclipse' or 'Army of the Black Moon'; it says Night Warrior customization. Meaning your character of any given playable Night Elf class becomes a Night Warrior. You can be a Night Elf Mage, or a Rogue, or a Hunter, or a Druid, and still be a canonical Night Warrior simply by doing the quest and adopting the black eyes. This is why whenever you talk about 'abilities a Night Warrior has', what you're really talking canonically is any Night Elf playable class who has completed this quest.
    Yes. Definitely.

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    Light of Elune is not “the lIght” at least we don’t know that for sure.

    Light of Elune is likely Moonlight. And that is arcane, not holy. That’s why it’s called light of Elune and not The Light.
    When damaging, yes.
    When healing, no.
    Just like how Sunwalkers use Sunlight.
    Commenting on these forums is like walking on eggshells - you never know where the next infraction is gonna come from.

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    When damaging, yes.
    When healing, no.
    Just like how Sunwalkers use Sunlight.
    Night Elf Priests don't make that differentiation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Night Elf Priests don't make that differentiation.
    Arcane cannot heal, currently, in game.
    Commenting on these forums is like walking on eggshells - you never know where the next infraction is gonna come from.

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    Yes. We definitely need the new fantasies and roles in the hands of the players. A new playstyle is not that urgent.

    Technically we have like 35 already? Surely we can reuse those and reskin them for all the classes we want and some new race class combos too like botanist blood elves skin for druids
    Indeed, like there's just no urgency to add a new class for every fantasy concept possibly when so much could be done by simply adding aesthetic customization to currently existing classes and specs.

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    Priests historically have had things like Fade, Mind Soothe, Spectral Guise and more to evade detection from mobs before. I'm not especially strongly for Night Warriors to use Void magic or not necessarily, as I think it'd be reasonable for them to be able to do either. I think there's grounds for a dark side of the moon kind of fantasy to work for Night Warrior to explain Void-type magic, or for a Night-focus to empower that kind of shadow magic. The Shadowmeld racial and even Nightsabers themselves are tied to Elune to allow for deception, stealth, and evasion as a blessing by her. I don't think many would consider this a 'holy' ability, but even if people did we know Rogues at least some of them (though not all, again I probably have to clarify that,) can use Void for their stealth as has been cited a couple times at least by this point via 'A Good War' and 'Safe Haven'. To expand on this, Rogues and Feral Druids that do Stealth are better at it via racials, presumably also as a blessing by Elune as their other racials are. As Stealth can be associated with Void, this would imply that to some extent Elune has some hand in Void and that it can be a blessing bestowed upon those she favors in this manner. To clarify my stance, I think the Paladin angle is the cooler angle personally. But as far as Void magic goes for Night Warrior I could believe a connection there.
    As always, you make good points Razion, I had forgotten. About the fade and spectral abilities already long established.

    Although my comparison still stands like a warrior who can tip toe to sneak around to a certain degree of success but nothing like the rogue can manage is probably the same as the priest.

    We sure this Ofc because priests can’t stealth via game mechanics. But game mechanics are sometimes approximations and generalisations too so it doesn’t preclude some priests achieving invisibility via the void as it is clear some rogues employ the void for extra stealth and we know the void elven riftwalkers or is it Riftblades? @Varadoc do this the best achieving complete undetectability.

    The night elf stealth has correctly been associated with shadow and this void magic which @Mace has consistently pointed out has been part of the night elf canon at its core, like the stars have but just haven’t had much fleshing out in game or emphasis. - but when you look at how central it is as a racial and to the theme of being a “night” elf it doesn’t surprise, especially when wardens inLegion employ the night magic a form of void/shadow (not death) and the night warrior carries on.

    The same with the star and moon magic where we can infer a lot of the lore and it’s place based on the things they have shown us but because they haven’t spent too much time expanding on it we cannot assume it just isn’t a major thing. Sometimes blizzard takes a while to come round to things. @ravenmoon was right or at least I now agree - it seems early night elf representation was paused until Legion and now we are seeing so much. So much of their arcane side, their demon Hunter side, their wardens , their huntresses and now the Might Warrior - all of these were barely seen about them in classic through to WoD with the classic Druidic involvement the most visible side of them with many of the non Druidic WC3 and War of the Ancients trilogy sides pretty much minimalised in our experience of then.


    I still remember how for night elves, WC3 made them really feel like a female matriarchal led and based race, while war of the ancients made them feel like a dark elf super civilisation race, but wow classic era made them feel like a Druidic race.

    Now more exciting themes are coming out. Like the Star Aigur & Moonguard, the Demon Hunter & Warden and much more of the Priestess of the Moon and Night Warrior - they are fleshing them out

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    "Insanity is the secondary resource for Shadow priests"


    Insanity (removed)
    Level 45 Shadow priest talent
    Passive
    Consuming Shadow Orbs transforms your Mind Flay into Insanity, and your Mind Sear into Searing Insanity, for 2 sec per Shadow Orb consumed. These spells deals 100% additional damage.

    Mastery: Madness (removed)
    Level 78 Shadow priest ability
    Passive
    Increases the damage of your Shadow Word: Pain, Vampiric Touch, Mind Blast, Mind Flay, Mind Sear, Void Eruption, and Void Bolt by 9.6%.

    Death and Madness
    Talent
    Requires Priest (Shadow)
    Requires level 15
    If a target dies within 7 sec after being struck by your Shadow Word: Death, you gain 40 Insanity over 4 sec and the cooldown of your Shadow Word: Death is reset.

    Ancient Madness
    Talent
    Requires Priest (Shadow)
    Requires level 50
    Voidform increases your critical strike chance by 30% for 15 sec, reducing by 2% every sec.

    Surrender to Madness
    Instant 3 min cooldown
    Requires Priest
    All your Insanity-generating abilities generate 100% more Insanity and you can cast while moving for 1 min.

    Then, you take damage equal to 90% of your maximum health and cannot generate Insanity for 15 sec.

    Driven to Madness PvP Talent
    Tank Specs – Row 1 PvP Talent
    Requires Priest (Shadow)
    Requires level 23
    While Voidform is not active, being attacked will reduce the cooldown of Void Eruption by 3 sec.
    Priests in shadow spec are not insane. They grapple with insanity as a means to achieve the most from the way they use the void. But they are not insane. In fact are there any in game shadow priests portrayed as insane?

    Using as a resource in this care doesn’t mean they are mad.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    So you want a particular customization based on something briefly shown in a single cutscene?
    I don’t want anything. I don’t play night elves, but I think her tattoos look cool and make the race feel more exciting and more special.

    So would be a good addition. I agree with those who feel they should centre the night elves about the stars mainly, seeing that is what they named the race after and established this arcane star moon magic that ties the Well of Eternity to the Goddess Elune, their origin and to nature and is a lot more distinctive than a generic forest elf or arcane dark elf.

    It potentially gives them something special and unique to be centred on that is not borrowed from other fantasies which is a plus. It doesn’t mean they lose their nature and arcane facets or anything like that but it allows them to be uniquely defined and connect their contrasting themes. Where do nature and arcane connect - ah Elune and the Well of Eternity. And this explains why night elves have this very good arcane core that spawns the arcane adeptness we see in Thalssians and Nightborne and why they have this great nature thing also which we see less clversions if.

    For me it’s fine that Nightborne carry on an almost exclusive night elven arcane thing and that shouldn’t affect height elves on the alliance excelling there, and I’m equally fine with them just being their own separate Kaldorei centred community we call shal’dorei doing their own thing as a night elf community that now call themselves Nightborne and do their thing similar to how blood elves have gone their own way from the remaining high elves.

    I’m also fine with Raven and mAce feeling night elf Worgen race should carry the full forest elf identity as a contrasting opposite to nightbirne.

    Them carrying this, just as in the arcane case, does not diminish or take away from night elves Druidism or nature connection

    The end result is night elves can actual be more focused on what their core and heart was, the stars. Which is a far more unique feel that befits a major race. Having aspects totally moon focused, star focused, nature focused, arcane focused, fel focused and shadowy void focused is fine and a good flavour that just makes them feel bigger.

    They should go with that.

    I just like the tattoos and it is fitting. It was a bit rubbish to see so little star and moon symbology on the characterisation when the lore put that at the heart of the race. Almost as if the devs forgot they didn’t make this race a forest elf race or a dark elf race but a night elf race. Which they defined based on the stars and moon with two core branches in arcane and nature.

    I think this is the best I can explain it

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    Priests in shadow spec are not insane. They grapple with insanity as a means to achieve the most from the way they use the void. But they are not insane. In fact are there any in game shadow priests portrayed as insane?
    They are struggling with it. That's why you have an insanity bar. That's why Surrender to Madness used to kill you in the end of the buff.

    There are certainly priests who have fallen to the Old God's whispers, like Benedictus.
    Commenting on these forums is like walking on eggshells - you never know where the next infraction is gonna come from.

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    So you want a particular customization based on something briefly shown in a single cutscene?
    I don’t want anything. I don’t play night elves, but I think her tattoos look cool and make the race feel more exciting and more special.

    So would be a good addition. I agree with those who feel they should centre the night elves about the stars mainly, seeing that is what they named the race after and established this arcane star moon magic that ties the Well of Eternity to the Goddess Elune, their origin and to nature and is a lot more distinctive than a generic forest elf or arcane dark elf.

    It potentially gives them something special and unique to be centred on that is not borrowed from other fantasies which is a plus. It doesn’t mean they lose their nature and arcane facets or anything like that but it allows them to be uniquely defined and connect their contrasting themes. Where do nature and arcane connect - ah Elune and the Well of Eternity. And this explains why night elves have this very good arcane core that spawns the arcane adeptness we see in Thalssians and Nightborne and why they have this great nature thing also which we see less versions of.

    For me it’s fine that Nightborne carry on an almost exclusive night elven arcane thing and that shouldn’t affect height elves on the alliance excelling there, and I’m equally fine with them just being their own separate Kaldorei centred community we call shal’dorei doing their own thing as a night elf community that now call themselves Nightborne and do their thing similar to how blood elves have gone their own way from the remaining high elves.

    I’m also fine with Raven and mAce feeling night elf Worgen race should carry the full forest elf identity as a contrasting opposite to nightbirne.

    Them carrying this, just as in the arcane case, does not diminish or take away from night elves Druidism or nature connection

    The end result is night elves can actual be more focused on what their core and heart was, the stars. Which is a far more unique feel that befits a major race. Having aspects totally moon focused, star focused, nature focused, arcane focused, fel focused and shadowy void focused is fine and a good flavour that just makes them feel bigger.

    They should go with that.

    I just like the tattoos and it is fitting. It was a bit rubbish to see so little star and moon symbology on the characterisation when the lore put that at the heart of the race. Almost as if the devs forgot they didn’t make this race a forest elf race or a dark elf race but a night elf race. Which they defined based on the stars and moon with two core branches in arcane and nature.

    I think this is the best I can explain it

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Arcane cannot heal, currently, in game.
    Doesn’t preclude the Priestesses of Elune using it to heal as “the light of Elune” whether it’s manipulation of moonlight arcane magic inspired by faith in the godddess or taught to them by the goddess or the actual power of the goddess.

    The arcane has certain properties blizzard have shown exclusively through the night elves and the Mage class I remember.

    Another topic a few years ago went into it in great detail.

    1. Moonwells - that are arcane waters from the Well of Wrernity are used to create food, regenerate mama and health , just like mages use the arcane to conjure food and the Nightborne misused the Nightwell for food.

    Regenerative properties are healing related and the Elune order could be the priest order that uses this or combines arcane with light.

    2. The nature of the arcane boizzard has stated is the building blocks of matter. Nature is ordered by the arcane and life springs forth from the Well of Wtenrity. This was introduced with night elf lore as they explained their origins. They stated the arcane is the building blocks of all matter and one of the reason advanced Druidism took till Malfurion during the sundering to get that far is because the arcane ezxperrtise sorta made other magics redundant to nightbelves as a major focus because they could do anything.

    The Nightborne, night elf people we meet in Suramar also emphasis this command of the cosmic forces of the universe.

    If life and nature can be ordered through the arcane so can healing - and I repeat the Light o Elune is not THE LIGHT, but associated with moonlight which is arcane.

    Who says arcane has only one type? We know arcane from the Wellnof Wternity is a little different from arcane from starlight and from moonlight or from another source like an individuals mana source or a Leyland or the atmosphere.

    And I repeat who knows if it isn’t a mixture of arcane and holy light?

    3. Configure food while temporary restore health and man

    4. It is the arcane that extends life - we see mages live longer, creatures near the well of eternity lived much longer and grew in stature - growth is related to healing and increase in lifespan - night elves were near immortal via their Well of Wrernity essence and used the arcane not the Light nor nature to extend their lives indefinitely in trhebpre sundering.

    Bear in mind in the long vigil the northern night elves who make up the Darnassians and Thalassians were tied to the tree, but it wasn’t the nature magic of the emerald dream or tree that extended their lives to immortality. It was the blessing of Nozdormu through magic. And the power the tree which is nature fed on was arcane.

    5. Moonwells work on that very principle of utilising arcane power through its actual energy combining with nature by tying it to the land. Then priestssses bless it in a purification ritual which means they manipulate using their magical knowledge.

    The signs are all there. The arcane is life affirming in Warcraft when it was presented with the night elves. It was never 1 dimensional.

    What was shown with the Kirin’tor and highbelves was taken to a much larger scale with the night elves that went beyond portals to to affecting life and faith as well as building an entire civilization.

    And it’s all connected. I mean this is how they present it.


    The Light of Elune is never stated as the Holy Light and the arcane connection is obvious. Whose to say the night elves don’t use the arcane to heal and their priesthood isn’t actually combining arcane with light and void while druids combine arcane with nature.

    It is all over their lore it is just expressed in multiple ways and not just the standard arcane base civilisation way.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    They are struggling with it. That's why you have an insanity bar. That's why Surrender to Madness used to kill you in the end of the buff.

    There are certainly priests who have fallen to the Old God's whispers, like Benedictus.
    Yes. Priests can fall like every other class or race. Being a priest doesn’t make it more likely, in fact the opposite. They seem to be more capability at mastering their mind than others and masters at manipulating others if they choose to. Which means great mental faculty.

    I don’t feel the shadow priest is presented as struggling with insanity but rather wrestling as to wrest the best and most they can out of a power without losing anything to it.



    It’s like skittering as close to the edge as possible to squeeze the most out of it. They willingly plunge into that line like risk takers or dare devils to get the max out. This isn’t a person strigggling.

    Don’t confuse it with an average non priest trained person who gets flooded with the void and has to deal with the whispers. They tend to go insane like the twilight cultists who are people from all sorts of classes.

    This is what the whispers of the void do to the untrained mind. Alleria and the void elves seem to have found a way to harness this power that’s not necessitate the way shadow priests do it and have been successful at withstanding the whispers. Their sanity is a hall mark of their racial identity.

    They were not created to be a race in the brink of insanity or struggling heavily with but actually stable and sane despite the nature of the power they are dealing with. This is their hallmark and what makes them void elves and exceptional with the void. Isn’t that right @vardan and @ varadoc

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    Indeed, like there's just no urgency to add a new class for every fantasy concept possibly when so much could be done by simply adding aesthetic customization to currently existing classes and specs.
    Exactly. And I’m cool with that. To be honest I thing the treasure is the fantasy. M
    We got so many the don’t have well defined representations in the game for players.

    I still wanna see witch doctors, botanists, ranger Farstriders actually be a thing.

    And I think most players would love to see many of these class fantasies be tho bf a they can play as, properly defined and skinned right.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    Doesn’t preclude the Priestesses of Elune using it to heal as “the light of Elune” whether it’s manipulation of moonlight arcane magic inspired by faith in the godddess or taught to them by the goddess or the actual power of the goddess.

    The arcane has certain properties blizzard have shown exclusively through the night elves and the Mage class I remember.

    Another topic a few years ago went into it in great detail.

    1. Moonwells - that are arcane waters from the Well of Wrernity are used to create food, regenerate mama and health , just like mages use the arcane to conjure food and the Nightborne misused the Nightwell for food.

    Regenerative properties are healing related and the Elune order could be the priest order that uses this or combines arcane with light.

    2. The nature of the arcane boizzard has stated is the building blocks of matter. Nature is ordered by the arcane and life springs forth from the Well of Wtenrity. This was introduced with night elf lore as they explained their origins. They stated the arcane is the building blocks of all matter and one of the reason advanced Druidism took till Malfurion during the sundering to get that far is because the arcane ezxperrtise sorta made other magics redundant to nightbelves as a major focus because they could do anything.

    The Nightborne, night elf people we meet in Suramar also emphasis this command of the cosmic forces of the universe.

    If life and nature can be ordered through the arcane so can healing - and I repeat the Light o Elune is not THE LIGHT, but associated with moonlight which is arcane.

    Who says arcane has only one type? We know arcane from the Wellnof Wternity is a little different from arcane from starlight and from moonlight or from another source like an individuals mana source or a Leyland or the atmosphere.

    And I repeat who knows if it isn’t a mixture of arcane and holy light?

    3. Configure food while temporary restore health and man

    4. It is the arcane that extends life - we see mages live longer, creatures near the well of eternity lived much longer and grew in stature - growth is related to healing and increase in lifespan - night elves were near immortal via their Well of Wrernity essence and used the arcane not the Light nor nature to extend their lives indefinitely in trhebpre sundering.

    Bear in mind in the long vigil the northern night elves who make up the Darnassians and Thalassians were tied to the tree, but it wasn’t the nature magic of the emerald dream or tree that extended their lives to immortality. It was the blessing of Nozdormu through magic. And the power the tree which is nature fed on was arcane.

    5. Moonwells work on that very principle of utilising arcane power through its actual energy combining with nature by tying it to the land. Then priestssses bless it in a purification ritual which means they manipulate using their magical knowledge.

    The signs are all there. The arcane is life affirming in Warcraft when it was presented with the night elves. It was never 1 dimensional.

    What was shown with the Kirin’tor and highbelves was taken to a much larger scale with the night elves that went beyond portals to to affecting life and faith as well as building an entire civilization.

    And it’s all connected. I mean this is how they present it.


    The Light of Elune is never stated as the Holy Light and the arcane connection is obvious. Whose to say the night elves don’t use the arcane to heal and their priesthood isn’t actually combining arcane with light and void while druids combine arcane with nature.

    It is all over their lore it is just expressed in multiple ways and not just the standard arcane base civilisation way.
    As far as i know, there are no arcane healing abilities in game.

    Yes. Priests can fall like every other class or race. Being a priest doesn’t make it more likely, in fact the opposite. They seem to be more capability at mastering their mind than others and masters at manipulating others if they choose to. Which means great mental faculty.

    I don’t feel the shadow priest is presented as struggling with insanity but rather wrestling as to wrest the best and most they can out of a power without losing anything to it.



    It’s like skittering as close to the edge as possible to squeeze the most out of it. They willingly plunge into that line like risk takers or dare devils to get the max out. This isn’t a person strigggling.

    Don’t confuse it with an average non priest trained person who gets flooded with the void and has to deal with the whispers. They tend to go insane like the twilight cultists who are people from all sorts of classes.

    This is what the whispers of the void do to the untrained mind. Alleria and the void elves seem to have found a way to harness this power that’s not necessitate the way shadow priests do it and have been successful at withstanding the whispers. Their sanity is a hall mark of their racial identity.

    They were not created to be a race in the brink of insanity or struggling heavily with but actually stable and sane despite the nature of the power they are dealing with. This is their hallmark and what makes them void elves and exceptional with the void. Isn’t that right @vardan and @ varadoc
    "The Light in which many priests bathe is brilliant and effervescent, granting them immense divine power. But the brightest light casts the darkest shadow—and from within this blackness, a rival power dwells. Shadow priests fully embrace this opposing polarity, their faith equally resolute as their holy counterparts—but focused on shadowy magics and mental manipulation. Like all priests, they dedicate much of their lives to worship—but they derive their power from the Void, straying dangerously close to the domain of the Old Gods. To truly understand such ancient, corruptive influence is to be driven mad. This is the state in which these dark priests thrive, embracing insanity and feeding off of the minds of their opponents to reach terrifying new limits".
    Commenting on these forums is like walking on eggshells - you never know where the next infraction is gonna come from.

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    As far as i know, there are no arcane healing abilities in game.



    "The Light in which many priests bathe is brilliant and effervescent, granting them immense divine power. But the brightest light casts the darkest shadow—and from within this blackness, a rival power dwells. Shadow priests fully embrace this opposing polarity, their faith equally resolute as their holy counterparts—but focused on shadowy magics and mental manipulation. Like all priests, they dedicate much of their lives to worship—but they derive their power from the Void, straying dangerously close to the domain of the Old Gods. To truly understand such ancient, corruptive influence is to be driven mad. This is the state in which these dark priests thrive, embracing insanity and feeding off of the minds of their opponents to reach terrifying new limits".
    I don’t understand you. It’s okay for you to speculate on something that hasn’t been confirmed but other can’t?


    The Light of Elune hasn’t been categorised as the Holy Light. And the light of the stars and the moon shows up as arcane.

    This is what the game shows.


    We don’t know if the arcane in terms of game mechanics presentation can heal. Maybe it can. It isn’t represented in the player class skill set.

    Not every heal that has happened in their lore has been categorised and we know not all healing is holy light based. Even death magic can heal and so can fel - despite all the life fuelling, life restoring and life regenerating properties the arcane has shown it isn’t hard to make a case of the alight of Elune being healing based.


    For all we know the life magic of nature is an arcane derivative. It would make sense based on early lore. But cosmology chart has indicated it is its own category.

    Still we know the powers connect and their is a connection also there is nothing to say that some powers are more basic and other powers are derived from the

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Arcane cannot heal, currently, in game.
    So, that is actually a gameplay abstraction.

    Lunar magic is not really 'Arcane' magic, since the lore is that the Night Elves chose not to dabble in Arcane magic and instead chose to take up Druidic nature magic and worshipping Elune. If Elune's magic were truly 'Arcane' as described by gameplay, then we have a massive conflict in lore. By that standard, I wouldn't factor in a gameplay explanation of a spell school to be anything more than an abstraction. I see it more as a general 'element' classification rather than anything deeply connected to lore, just like how the Frost magic between a DK and Mage come from different sources, and more appropriately the DK's own variant of Frost should actually be typified as a form of 'Shadow', since they use are using necromantic Runes to generate this type of power. In the game, it is literally just abstracted as a different spell school from Unholy for the purpose of not having all your abilities locked out of you get Silenced. Same as 'Arcane' spells being locked out, allowing you to still use your Nature spells.

    If they want to add in Arcane or Fire or Frost spell that heals, they totally could. We just haven't had a direct example of that in any class yet, that's all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

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