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  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    So, that is actually a gameplay abstraction.

    Lunar magic is not really 'Arcane' magic, since the lore is that the Night Elves chose not to dabble in Arcane magic and instead chose to take up Druidic nature magic and worshipping Elune. If Elune's magic were truly 'Arcane' as described by gameplay, then we have a massive conflict in lore. By that standard, I wouldn't factor in a gameplay explanation of a spell school to be anything more than an abstraction. I see it more as a general 'element' classification rather than anything deeply connected to lore, just like how the Frost magic between a DK and Mage come from different sources, and more appropriately the DK's own variant of Frost should actually be typified as a form of 'Shadow', since they use are using necromantic Runes to generate this type of power. In the game, it is literally just abstracted as a different spell school from Unholy for the purpose of not having all your abilities locked out of you get Silenced. Same as 'Arcane' spells being locked out, allowing you to still use your Nature spells.

    If they want to add in Arcane or Fire or Frost spell that heals, they totally could. We just haven't had a direct example of that in any class yet, that's all.
    I guess that's why they are said to use the Light of Elune to do so, which is translated into Holy magic i think...
    Commenting on these forums is like walking on eggshells - you never know where the next infraction is gonna come from.

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    I guess that's why they are said to use the Light of Elune to do so, which is translated into Holy magic i think...
    The Light of Elune is not the Light. The Holy Light is The Holy Light, and Tyrande is aware of what it is, priests of all religions can access the Holy Light because all beings are made of shards of light, this is not the Light of Elune. The light of Elune is Moonlight, and always appears as the silver colour of moonlight.

    It's energy type is arcane, - but it could be a mix of arcane and holy light.

    The light of Elune could also not necessary always mean light Elune herself gives, but could mean the light of the moon itself, which is also called Elune as it was the symbol of the goddess, but the goddess herself as an entity represented by the moon is not the actual moon itself.

    Firstly the night elves believed she dwelt in within the waters of the Well of Eternity, so they know she isn't literally the moon, but the moon as the brightest light in the night sky is represented as the goddess the brightest spot in the night elves.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    So, that is actually a gameplay abstraction.

    Lunar magic is not really 'Arcane' magic, since the lore is that the Night Elves chose not to dabble in Arcane magic and instead chose to take up Druidic nature magic and worshipping Elune. If Elune's magic were truly 'Arcane' as described by gameplay, then we have a massive conflict in lore.
    Not necessarily, I think Mace explained it quite well.

    The arcane magic that was banned was direct use via the well of Eternity - WotA trilogy states this, and the reason for the ban is because usage of the Well lights Azeroth up as a beacon brightly in the twisting nether, this is how the demons first found Azeroth, the arcane magic usage constant.

    When the demons are driven off Azeroth, the Well is destroyed - the whole point of the story is that the night elves believe the demons are after the Well of Eternity's power, with it destroyed their reason for coming back to Azeroth is gone. if people start using magic again like that the demons would realise it isn't gone but still there and try and come back, not to mention the well is the only means they can - as far as the night elves believe.

    this is why Nordrassil is grown over the well, it's to hide its power, and it's the same reason use of the arcane for spells (via the well is banned).

    in the lore, this is the only way night elves now how to use magic that draws the legion. Elune spells from the stars and moon are not attributed to Well of Eternity usage. they draw directly from the stars (Nelves) and the moon (Elune) not the magical lifeblood of the planet. Hence no danger.

    2.
    Lunar magic may actually not have been used at all during the long vigil - hence no conflict. If you observe, stellar magic is used by the priesthood in WC3, with the legion already returned. High elves and humans are also using arcane magic now, and night elves aren't fighting them. Night elves did use arcane magic against the legion the first time round, because it's a very powerful tool, the only reason it is banned is to prevent a return, but once a return happens - the priests and druids would use all the offensive magic they can have access too it within their disciplines.

    The difference still remains that this is not magic accessed by the well of eternity, it never was, it is accessed from star light and moon light.

    There isn't necessarily a conflict. .so it doesn't have to be Light.


    3. Blizzard stated that game mechanics are canon, the mystery Raven pointed out was to try and figure out why the night elves are using what they do, even when they have a ban. The answer is in discovering what the nature of the ban I, and why it happened. Also understanding said night elves. arcane is banned yet moonwells and the well of eternity exists - this implies it isn't arcane that is banned but practice of arcane, and the lore confirms this, it is using it for MAGE spells - which means there is a way mages use arcane energy that is intensive enough to light up Azeroth.. and the book describes that they use the well of eternity to do their spells. This is not what is implied of priests or druids, and not every spell requires the Well of eternity.

    Now Malfurion casts some spells in WoTA that aren't druid spells, at a time when the Well's access is locked up, which means night elves are casting spells that aren't Well intensive. It's just that all their magecraft requires the well - you can assume that is like all the important stuff they had come to rely on to keep their civilization going.. all that has to stop, but it may not necessarily mean the other stuff does.


    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    By that standard, I wouldn't factor in a gameplay explanation of a spell school to be anything more than an abstraction. I see it more as a general 'element' classification rather than anything deeply connected to lore, just like how the Frost magic between a DK and Mage come from different sources, and more appropriately the DK's own variant of Frost should actually be typified as a form of 'Shadow', since they use are using necromantic Runes to generate this type of power. In the game, it is literally just abstracted as a different spell school from Unholy for the purpose of not having all your abilities locked out of you get Silenced. Same as 'Arcane' spells being locked out, allowing you to still use your Nature spells.

    If they want to add in Arcane or Fire or Frost spell that heals, they totally could. We just haven't had a direct example of that in any class yet, that's all.
    And I think this is the case here.

    We don't have much examples, but they have already set a precedent. At the end of the day we have to go with what htey show us and try and understand.


    They didn't have to give stellar magic an arcane identity, but they did. I think this is because it is the building blocks of matter and the energy of the cosmos - the nightborne repeat exactly what is said in the war of the Ancients in 7.1 - when Victoire is perplexed why her kin are using bows and arrows when they learned a long time ago to use the arcane.

    Blizzard has added many new types of magic, some of the druid spells have the label astral magic, but the arcane signature of moonfire, starfire, starsurge, lunar strike, starfall etc are still there, because it is the theme of the race.

    This is what people ignore.

    I have come to agree with the brothers, that if we look at what we are shown then we must challenge our assumptions about it. Why are we assuming that because the arcane was banned it means that all things arcane are banned when the lore is clearly showing us otherwise.. in the "ban period" moonwells were create using arcane waters of the Well of Eternity, and the Well was there." The lore says the night elves have still been filled with that power and the reason why the Thalassians lookdown on them is because they have this power and don't use it (or didn't use it ) for stupid superstitious and cowardice reasons (they put it) - which makes them contemptuous of the Kaldorei who stayed in the long vigil.



    We also see wildkin use moonfire, almost like a natural ability like a Thunder lizard uses chain lighting - it's magic, but they aren't exterminating moonkin for using arcane magic - because these creatures are not accessing power from the well of eternity, but from what they have or an innate connection to who they are linked to.

    so there must be a difference.


    what we do know is that the magic is arcane, and their is an arcane background to the night elves' fundamental make up being born from the well of eternity from dark trolls. And being linked to it naturally.

    Could this be an arcane priesthood, that uses arcane in many ways, not just the mage way of doing things? don't forget, this is the race that invented the mage way of doing things, for all we know, that could be just a different way of using the arcane. I think Ravenmoon has been saying for a while that magecraft most likely originated from teh study of the priests studying the well to discover more about Elune, while the priests focused on spiritual meaning and gained greater knowledge to do things like access the stars and moon which all night elves probably learnt to a degree, magecraft arose from utilising the power for practical things and amenities - which ofc are very useful to people's lives - however this sort of use directly requires use of the well - and that specific vein of use is what is called magecraft.

    The lore says night elves were the ones to release magic into the world, which the story shows that before the sundering, the well of eternity was the only way this sort of magic could be used.. and it was more powerful than any other kind used by races. It ist his sort of magic that our magecraft is birthed from, because it is taught to us by high elves who according to the lore utilise an inferior version because nothing as powerful as the well of eternity exists.

    When the sundering happens, the magic is dispersed into the atmosphere. The book implies night elves don't know this yet, still think the well is the only way to use magecraft.. the Shen'dralar use a demon battery for their spells, the night elves in Suramar use the Nightwell, the high elves discover how to use the energy in the atmosphere and they teach this to humans, and it's this usage that draws the demons back to Azeroth, but the magi cis no longer all concentrated in one place, and the large reservoir of it is hidden - which is why Archimonde can't find it, but in WC3, he knows it is there somewhere, this leads him to Nordrassil, where he attaches himself to the tree trying to find the lock to unravel what Alexstrazsa did when she grew the tree to hide the power.

    He ahst o destroy or break the cap open so he can consume the magic to call Sargeras. .

    But the magic in the atmosphere released by the Well is still tied to Azeroth, so it will light Azeroth up, the magic from moonlight and starlight is tied to the stars and moon, so they don't give off the same signature as those that utilise magic from the well , form leylines or the dispersed Well of eternity magic in the atmosphere, that is all linked to Azeroth. internal magic, I presume of any creature, like the night elves, won't light up Azeroth, for even though they are linked to the power source, if they utlise their own magic (which is what i suspect is involved in spells like moonfire and starfire) it's pretty much like how a wild kin does it, being a magical creature and having a degree of magical power - it's form them, not from the planet.

    Also I think scale matters a lot. the heavy use the ngihtelves were doing, would register quite brightly, tiny uses wouldn't, unless illions of people were doing tiny uses.

    this is sort of what hapepns when humans draw the legion, the tiny uses grwo and grow and the legion sense Azeroth again.

    but nobody knows (except perhpas Ilildan) that it is a world soul th elegion are after, and the magic is just a tool and an additional prize, not the goal.

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    The Light of Elune is not the Light. The Holy Light is The Holy Light, and Tyrande is aware of what it is, priests of all religions can access the Holy Light because all beings are made of shards of light, this is not the Light of Elune. The light of Elune is Moonlight, and always appears as the silver colour of moonlight.

    It's energy type is arcane, - but it could be a mix of arcane and holy light.
    It's not the Holy Light, but i think it is represented by that spell school in game.
    Commenting on these forums is like walking on eggshells - you never know where the next infraction is gonna come from.

  4. #284
    Wowpedia lists it as Holy

    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Moonlight

    Apparantly the devs are hinting at a holy connection through Velen having a theory connecting her to the Naaru. And we do have some more recent i fo that she may have created the Naaru.

    Not quite sure the full connections yet since all this lore is still being progressed and added and changed, like the whole Winter Queen connection and potentially being an eternal one etc. We have to wait and see what her light really is when manifested as energy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Wowpedia lists it as Holy

    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Moonlight

    Apparantly the devs are hinting at a holy connection through Velen having a theory connecting her to the Naaru. And we do have some more recent i fo that she may have created the Naaru.

    Not quite sure the full connections yet since all this lore is still being progressed and added and changed, like the whole Winter Queen connection and potentially being an eternal one etc. We have to wait and see what her light really is when manifested as energy.
    See? i told you so.
    Commenting on these forums is like walking on eggshells - you never know where the next infraction is gonna come from.

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Wowpedia lists it as Holy

    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Moonlight

    Apparantly the devs are hinting at a holy connection through Velen having a theory connecting her to the Naaru. And we do have some more recent i fo that she may have created the Naaru.

    Not quite sure the full connections yet since all this lore is still being progressed and added and changed, like the whole Winter Queen connection and potentially being an eternal one etc. We have to wait and see what her light really is when manifested as energy.
    The devs haven’t fleshed this out properly. It will change again when they do.

    At first glance healing moonlight does seem a combination of arcane + holy light. It’s soft silver colour vs the bluish purple white of pure arcane.

    But the night elves silver eyes are from arcane energy not holy energy - it is likely at the time the dev said that the association was made on the fly because of the healing capability.

    I think the language used was “considered” which means that there is more to it than that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    See? i told you so.
    The article is referring to the specific spell Moonlight which has a holy component.

    Not moonlight in the sense of magic used to different things or the light of the moon itself.

    Moon fire and Lunar strike are both arcane and they can be viewed as a form of moonlight but not the specific spell moonlight.

    Look at it this way. The Light is Holy, yet the Light from the sun is solar arcane energy not holy. The light of the Light is different from the sunlight though there is a connection.

    Make sense?

  7. #287
    I'm not for new skins. Almost every class has 3 specs and it would be best to invest in that identity while keeping the main class uniqueness is a task in and of itself. I would open up all classes to all races.

  8. #288
    New skins cost much more((

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by delus View Post
    I'm not for new skins. Almost every class has 3 specs and it would be best to invest in that identity while keeping the main class uniqueness is a task in and of itself. I would open up all classes to all races.
    Skins are a good solution to the lack of appropriate race/class combinations.

    Opening all classes to all races would just devalue the lore behind it.
    Commenting on these forums is like walking on eggshells - you never know where the next infraction is gonna come from.

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by delus View Post
    I'm not for new skins. Almost every class has 3 specs and it would be best to invest in that identity while keeping the main class uniqueness is a task in and of itself. I would open up all classes to all races.
    The good think is that many classes have very specific identities in each race that the class doesn’t really represent faithfully.

    Leaving a generic discipline in gameplay where the lore paints a far richer, diverse and more exciting picture.

    Furthermore there entire new classes and elite ones that might never be playable as separate classes simply due to the complexities of adding new playstyle s and then achieving balance that is tuned well enough for competitive content.

    Which you want in the game. The only workable solution for both racial class identities and new classes might be ‘skinning’ them onto existing classes so to speak.

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