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  1. #361
    Don't worry guys I am sure every gigantic plot hole will be explained in detail with incoming book series costing money to stuff blizzard's pockets instead of the game where most of us would like this shit to make sense. I have given up on blizzard story telling so much nonsense.

  2. #362

    Do the characters say anything after the cinematic?

    All I've seen is the cinematic, but it looks like they approach Sylvanas. Is more said after the cinematic, either through voice or through text dialogue?

  3. #363
    Quote Originally Posted by choom View Post
    Jailer is literally the story team watching Infinity War in 2018 going 'OMG GUYZZZ you know what would be SO COOL -- if WoW had THANOS!!! -- and you know what would be COOL -- if he did ALL THE SAME STUFF' and basically straight up plagiarizing ideas based on their profitability.

    Does Disney know what Blizzard is doing? Their lawyers have been set off for less than this.
    It's totally different.

    He has the Infinity Sigils, not the Stones!

  4. #364
    Quote Originally Posted by Beuargh View Post
    ok. but it still doesn't make sense to me. why would he do that? when everybody know that's one more things that's gonna help "us" defeat him in the end.. if he believe Bolvar and co are going to lynch her on the spot, it doesn't make any difference if she got her soul back or not. he just gave her an excuse to be spared by the good guys. her plot armour is so thick and heavy (and obvious..) I don't know how she can walk with it....
    Im just gonna go with him giving her soul back because maybe it takes away her power? Makes her weak in comparison?

  5. #365
    Scarab Lord Frontenac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romanthony View Post
    Good cinematic in terms of looks, but awful in terms of story.
    "I will never serve.... Apart from the decades i have been serving you Apparently."

    So yea this moment which is meant to be a big "fuck yea" moment is more face palming bad, because bitch you have been serving him Apparently, ever since you threw yourself off Icecrown
    There is a difference between service and servitude. Sylvanas realized that whe would become a slave to the Jailor just like she had been a slave for the Lich King. We see her having doubts when it happens to Anduin, but, hey, it was not her. Now it becomes personal and she rebels.
    "Je vous répondrai par la bouche de mes canons!"

  6. #366
    Do I dare say I didn't mind it? Sure it was predictable but whos writing in games isn't nowadays. I don't think it is supposed to be this huge mystery to us players this time around, but more soo a mystery to our in game characters. Not saying that is a good way to get immersion but meh.

    Think the Voltron jailer looks just like id expect some crazed dude in the cosmos of wow to look.
    Sylvannas having part of her soul/being stored away by the jailer is interesting. how much of sylvannas was in control? Will tyrande be able to see reason now? Arthas parallels are welcome and in this case I feel like there may be some lore heavy implications when we see Arthas in Shadowlands (at least I expect it).
    I suppose people will hate on everything.

    Honestly messing with titan lore makes sense on blizzards behalf, it was seemingly one of there most popular lore topics of old. It seem most people hate having answers and just prefer mysterious non cannon tin foil hat chatter.

  7. #367
    The cunning and calculating Sylvanas, being not so cunning and calculating all of the sudden.
    Jeez. This is something to be expected from an orc.

  8. #368
    Pretty hard to defend this on any level really. They wrapped the long term narrative around sylvanas, to the point where it only fits if she's the dumbest person involved in it. And even then the pay off is roundly unsatisfying for everyone concerned.

    I don't doubt this ends in some heroic sacrifice, but this is really, really bad writing and storytelling

  9. #369
    Quote Originally Posted by Wagar View Post
    Do I dare say I didn't mind it? Sure it was predictable but whos writing in games isn't nowadays. I don't think it is supposed to be this huge mystery to us players this time around, but more soo a mystery to our in game characters. Not saying that is a good way to get immersion but meh.

    Think the Voltron jailer looks just like id expect some crazed dude in the cosmos of wow to look.
    Sylvannas having part of her soul/being stored away by the jailer is interesting. how much of sylvannas was in control? Will tyrande be able to see reason now? Arthas parallels are welcome and in this case I feel like there may be some lore heavy implications when we see Arthas in Shadowlands (at least I expect it).
    I suppose people will hate on everything.

    Honestly messing with titan lore makes sense on blizzards behalf, it was seemingly one of there most popular lore topics of old. It seem most people hate having answers and just prefer mysterious non cannon tin foil hat chatter.
    Pretty toxic thread alright. People have short memories that the game's already had a redemption arc where we sided with Illidan who once upon a time conquered an entire world but people are choosing without thought what to dislike which makes very uninteresting discussion.

    The only 2 issues I have with the ending is that it was already spoilered in the book regarding the Soul fragment so it was a obvious as daylight what was happening next, and that it's going to take another 8 months for the story to develop.

  10. #370
    Quote Originally Posted by hllfrmththrsd View Post
    Why changing your mind, having doubts, switching sides in real life is okay but when it comes to the game, it's suddenly 'bad writing'. What wouldn't be bad writing? Having Sylvanas standing in Undercity half-naked?
    In service to the Jailer Sylvanas has commit genocide, unleashed an old god upon the world to cause as much death as possible to fuel the Jailer, watched Jaina, Thrall, Anduin and Baine get captures and tortured and personally turned Anduin into a meat puppet but when her boss 'wins' and goes 'finally I will rule' she decides "nah I don't want to be puppet"?
    Shes been a puppet for him since whenever Blizzard decides to retcon her turning. Potentially as far back as ICC.

    The point where she decides to switches sides and the things she has already done for the Jailer don't match up.

    They want to play off the idea that Sylvanas didn't know the Jailer was just Arthas 2.0 but its completely unbelievable because he is so obviously evil. To pull this off you need a villain with more depth where its actually believable he wants to 'free everyone from death' rather then simply rule creation.
    And they never did that
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  11. #371
    It is not the predictability that I have a problem with. It is the inconsistency within Sylvanas herself.
    There were multiple times when she used "serve" when she was talking to other people ( e.g Anduin ), but now it suddenly triggers her to a point where she can't take it anymore? What?
    So was she acting out of selfishness? "It's okay when you serve, but not me"
    Is that the whole reason for her shooting at Zovaal? If it was - was this the best opportunity to do it?
    I honestly can't see an iota of logic here
    Because some things are just worth fighting for.

  12. #372
    really? it took her THAT long to figure out the jailer was literately the same as Arthas/the lich king? this is so fucking unbelievably dumb.

  13. #373
    100% what everyone predicted... except the ones who denied anything but her death was possible.

  14. #374
    The best part is that this will end with Sylvanas being the new Jailer or some bullshit like that so even the "Sylvanas will be the new Lich Queen" theories from years ago will come true lol

  15. #375
    Quote Originally Posted by OCoyne View Post
    Pretty toxic thread alright. People have short memories that the game's already had a redemption arc where we sided with Illidan who once upon a time conquered an entire world but people are choosing without thought what to dislike which makes very uninteresting discussion.

    The only 2 issues I have with the ending is that it was already spoilered in the book regarding the Soul fragment so it was a obvious as daylight what was happening next, and that it's going to take another 8 months for the story to develop.
    And plenty of people disliked Illidan being the 'hero' of Legion.
    But atleast Illidans motivations made sense, he hates demons and he helped us because he hates demons. He rejects the Naaru 'gift' because he recognises it as just another pair of chains.

    Meanwhile Sylvanas has happily served the jailor as a puppet but now goes 'oh no, I don't realise he was actually a bad guy looking to control everyone' despite literally turning Anduin into a controlled puppet.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  16. #376
    There are people who take interest in the perspective of a serial killer, and then there are people who only want swift justice and don't tolerate attention given to a serial killer's perspective. Getting that perspective delays justice, but does not necessarily circumvent justice.
    I believe all Sylvanas' decisions have been coherent from her perspective. Allying with Zovaal was a gamble, but what is a gamble when you're a half dead creature with no loved ones? The gamble didn't work out, fair enough. She stood her ground and expected to be killed then. Zovaal, with all his power, didn't feel the need to kill her so she lives on for now.
    The only thing perhaps incoherent is the Jailer following the trope of sparing loose ends. Any other rage is really just people who can't handle delayed justice.

  17. #377
    Quote Originally Posted by Frontenac View Post
    There is a difference between service and servitude. Sylvanas realized that whe would become a slave to the Jailor just like she had been a slave for the Lich King. We see her having doubts when it happens to Anduin, but, hey, it was not her. Now it becomes personal and she rebels.
    I think people are pointing out the absurdity of being the henchman of the Jailer for years, doing absolutely everything to give absolute power to someone who's forte is torturing and dominating people only to then be surprised at the prospect of him also wielding that power over you.
    The absolute state of Warcraft lore in 2021:
    Kyrians: We need to keep chucking people into the Maw because it's our job.
    Also Kyrians: Why is the Maw growing stronger despite all our efforts?

  18. #378
    I am Murloc!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    The problem with this story arc is that the Janitor is a generic pure evil monster, his motivations can essentially be summed up as "I want everyone to serve me", which is the blandest type of villain archetype imaginable.

    If Janitor was really like Thanos, so a misguided/morally grey villain who genuinely thinks they are doing the right thing, then it would be easier to understand why Sylvanas would fall for him (she's still dumb). But right now Sylvanas essentially trusted a guy who is literally Satan, the dude is even more evil than Sargeras, because at least Sargeras thought he was doing the right thing.

    "BUT A VILLAIN DOESN'T NEED TO HAVE COMPLEX MOTIVATIONS!!!!!", false, any mature/adult villain needs complex motivations. Especially if you want to sell the idea that Sylvanas looked at this guy and thought "Hm, this guy has a point".
    I mean to be fair we know fuck all about why the Jailer wants what he wants, his backstory (there was a line in the cinematic "at long last the final key is once again mine" - so it was his before going to the Arbiter?) which I have no doubt that the Primus will hopefully fill us in on in the coming weeks

  19. #379
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Houle View Post
    yeah, he totally didnt write that bc of the (obviously disgusting) death threats made by some no-lifers. he totally likes the story for sure.
    *eye roll*
    Rather he likes this story beat or not he obviously likes golden and her work other wise he wouldn’t have worked with her for over 10 years.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  20. #380
    Quote Originally Posted by Houle View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evGkiiUac2M

    aiiight, its out.
    and its 100% what literally everyone predicted.
    nothing surprising, nothing unexpected.
    So what i thought about Arthas was really sylvannas ( that the moment they came in contact with the jailor they where corrupted/controlled).....hope this does not lead to a redemption.

    And kinda lack luster ending. we did not stop him. And still do not know his plan.

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