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  1. #421
    Worst lore since MoP.

    But worse even, which is hard.

    We still don't know wtf is up with Zovaal. The main baddie. Of the expansion. He talks about a lotta shit, he says he will undo everything. Ok?

    Probably the worst villain I've seen in anything really. Absolute substandard writing for the villain.

  2. #422
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    I'm not sure which cinematic you're talking about as neither has been released on the 2th, but then again you're wrong about both. https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/top...nale-cutscene/ for Nyalotha, comments in this very thread for Sanctum
    The sylvanas one linked in the op it’s upload date is Jul 2nd. It’s Been up and unlisted days before any one saw it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evGkiiUac2M
    Last edited by Lorgar Aurelian; 2021-07-07 at 05:01 PM.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  3. #423
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    I mean if that makes you feel better?

    Fact is. Jailer comes before Arthas. Jailer creates Arthas. Jailer therefore had a design and model Arthas and his stuff off it. Hence Arthas is the knockoff.

    Just because we see Arthas first doesn't change anything.
    Arthas first appearance: 2002.

    Jailer first appearance: 2020.

    As has been stated multiple times, we are talking about real life, not lore.

    Jailer, Maldraxxus and Torghast, are direct ripoffs of LK/Arthas, Scourge and ICC.
    They're (short for They are) describes a group of people. "They're/They are a nice bunch of guys." Their indicates that something belongs/is related to a group of people. "Their car was all out of fuel." There refers to a location. "Let's set up camp over there." There is also no such thing as "could/should OF". The correct way is: Could/should'VE, or could/should HAVE.
    Holyfury armory

  4. #424
    Quote Originally Posted by starstationprofm View Post
    What. Space Marines are awesome.
    In very, very campy and non serious ways, sure. Hyper masculinity and blind devotion is fun when you are kid.

    I prefer orks. They drop all pretenses and just embrace that they are a joke race.

  5. #425
    I couldn't understand a thing the Jailer was saying. Someone get him in speech therapy.

  6. #426
    Mechagnome George Lucas's Avatar
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    Exactly as expected. Again we stand atop some gay super villain platform surrounded by flashy portals and with no creative direction in sight. Vague reminders of past events that relate in no meaningful way to the current gibberish pass by along empty shells of used up characters. Pathetic.

  7. #427
    Old God Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    The sylvanas one linked in the op it’s upload date is Jul 2nd. It’s Been up and unlisted days before any one saw it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evGkiiUac2M
    Hmmm, 3.5k upvotes vs 8.5k downvotes as of typing this. BfA tier of popularity
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  8. #428
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Hmmm, 3.5k upvotes vs 8.5k downvotes as of typing this. BfA tier of popularity
    Gonna get hate for this but oh well. Yes the unlisted official video ratio is horrible. Back to my original argument...it's unlisted, meaning only mmochamp goers and those with the link see it. If you look at other public listings of the same cinematic to the general public, the likes to dislikes is far more favorable. Which begs the question....why leave it unlisted when its only like to be seen by a more critical audience? They'd do better to make it public at this point.

    Leyst tv 2.2k/640 like/dislike ratio on 160k views

    athelarius 3.1k/447 like/dislike ration on 208k views
    Last edited by snakeeyesma81; 2021-07-07 at 06:07 PM.

  9. #429
    Quote Originally Posted by Aliven View Post
    In very, very campy and non serious ways, sure. Hyper masculinity and blind devotion is fun when you are kid.

    I prefer orks. They drop all pretenses and just embrace that they are a joke race.
    They're literally infertile and have no sexual drive. I wouldn't... call them that.

    I don't like 40K orks because Warcraft ones are 100 times more interesting.

  10. #430
    Follow this...

    So Sylvanas, who:

    1) committed genocide without remorse to 1,000,000 million innocent civilians, in order for the Jailer to get a 0,0001% boost (imagine the amount of people dying from billions of planets daily anyway), knowing that those civilians would be eternally tortured in hell; and
    2) committed without ever thinking about it uncountable other atrocities (wrath gate etc.),

    Because of her "anger" due to the fact that she was made into a monster and her people in Quel Thalas were massacred by:

    1) Arthas;
    2) in order to resurrect Kel Thuzad,

    In order to get revenge on the "System" who did the above...:

    1) joins/helps the Boss/Creator of Arthas;
    2) is on the same team at the Sanctum of Domination with Kel Thuzad,

    and after all the atrocities.. is triggered by the word "SERVE", while:

    1) in Blizzard OWN COMIC, OWN ESTABLISHED LORE... she said following the encounter with her sisters "THEY WILL ALL SERVE DEATH" (i.e. Zovaal?)
    2) SHE SAID to ANDUIN a couple of months ago "join us OR BE made to "SERVE"....

    Guys... this isn't just "oh mmo-champ haters getting triggered"... This is objectively one of the most embarrassing, badly written, no-though, retconning garbage, that insults the intelligence of all people who GREW UP with this lore...

    We are not talking just about a lore that we don't live.. not just talking about "Oh it should have been written that X way it'd be more interesting"

    This is a BLATANTLY CONTRADICTORY story... These people are Heads of Lore at a Multi-Billion Dollar entity.. and they do not even read their own lore, they are lazy

    Was there not a single one at the decision desk when they proposed this cinematic to say "Guys, wouldn't it be weird if she suddenly is triggered by the word "SERVE".. when we literally have her in-game and in books running around using the "YOU WILL ALL SERVE DEATH" for a couple of years?"" Nobody....???

  11. #431
    Question: Did Zovaal just merge the two halves of her soul into one again, or did he ALSO make her mortal i.e. fully resurrect her to life?

    Zovaal left Sylvanas to the mercy of the mortals. But they could hold no power over the Banshee Queen. She could just adopt banshee form and fly off. She is too powerful to be jailed in any real sense. The only way the cinematic makes sense in my mind is if he ALSO made her mortal again and fully resurrected her. Thoughts?
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  12. #432
    The Lightbringer Minikin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    Only thing that makes me feel a bit better about this whole thing is ironically the fact that Sylvanas was never a master planner.

    She was a dumb, vapid moron genuinely sucking on a coolaid tube of the Jailer.

    She thought he would do some “great recolution” or something but instead he just put a proverbial crown on his head and smacked her with a sceptre.

    And she was like “woooow… i never expected that…”.

    Hard to hate someone so stupid. She honestly as naive as a newborn!

    But still, where does the blame go then? And… What about the whole “resolution for the genocide” and all?
    That and let's not forget.

    Woman is one hop skip and a jump away from kelthuzad.

    I hope people don't get confused and think she shot that arrow because of some moral dilemma. Nope. It's when she realized that her fate would be the same as Maw'duin and Renethal. She would have been totally fine if all of the others were in chains so long as she doesn't have to serve.
    Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of Asian players where many remarked on the Horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play (Source)

  13. #433
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    While this is not a defense of this joke by any means, I think people are going too far with this "how could Sylvanas trust his obviously evil plan"...
    Before anything else, this is the most genuinely impressive steelman I've seen of this narrative thus far, intentional or otherwise and I can't wait for the book to try and fail to do the same in a thousand time as many words. I can come around to a lot of it, even if nothing can deal with the elephant in the room that is the tower of Babylon of retcons that got us to this point. I disagree on where the narrative fails. I'll go over what I can buy and be made to make sense if you accept the stupid premise before I head into what is irreparable.

    Firstly, I've no issue believing that Sylvanas knows that the plan requires torturing this many people and going along with it anyway. She's both personally selfish enough to set that aside and from the point of view of her both alive and dead she was perfectly willing to throw people under the bus so the job gets done. A version of the plan where reality is rewritten so that she (and everyone else) doesn't have their fates decided for them by a broken robot and where even in the afterlife you can trip, break your neck and go to oblivion is something that would obviously be appealing to her and her being on board with torturing people she doesn't know or care about to see it done and who would be bound for a fate she deems terrible anyway is completely in keeping with her attitude. At worst she's letting some of them cook for a little while so that the rest can benefit. So far so good.

    I also actually disagree with your breaking point on Sylvanas only caring about the free will of the undead - Sylvanas didn't give a shit about their free will either, what she cared about was herself being free from others' influence, first in being raised and controlled by Arthas then with her escape from that sending her into turbo hell. She has sympathies for Quel'thalas and the Forsaken and helps them out of pragmatism, but not out of any kind of conviction. The idea that she would react to learning that her afterlife and everyone else's is both deterministic, decided on by a machine and that as a side note, all of life exists solely to give raw fuel in the form of anima to death by wanting to destroy all of it to free herself and everyone else by proxy is in that sense plausible.

    I'll go one further actually and even cover the bit with the Blue Man up to a point. To start with, she has extant buy-in with him if we assume he introduced himself to her as the one who sent the Val'kyr to save her. Saving her from super hell is in the good books. For another, there's no implication that she could travel back and forth to the Maw before, knew what he looked like or had any version of events presented to her but the one he told her up to the part where she actually broke the veil and went into the afterlife. On top of that, her conception of herself as being a partner to him rather than considering herself a servant is at that point still viable. Yes, he empowers her and saved her from hell, but his only chance of busting out and accomplishing anything at all is contingent on her breaking in and reaching him. If she at any point decided that she'd sooner neck herself after all, his plan is shit out of luck. She does have leverage up until the point she enters the Maw, her conception of herself as being his accomplice rather than his goon isn't without grounding at that point. Up to that point, if you accept the retcons, all of this crap you can sort of gel together.

    No, where it falls apart irreparably is when she actually enters the Maw and gets to meet him.

    Once she enters the Shadowlands not only can she actually see what the dude is like without a filter, in all his WoW Satan glory and see that he's malevolent, not only see that he employs Kel'thuzad and has the Lich King's tools and so has obviously set her up, as well as that she wasn't going to be bound for the Maw in the first place, but more importantly than even that, she loses all leverage. Sylvanas disregarding this guy being transparently obviously evil and even disregarding that he had no intention of rewriting reality to solve these problems but to put himself at the top can all be swallowed if she has any kind of reason to believe she can assert power over the situation. But she doesn't. Once Blanduin is captured, she's got nothing and she does nothing to try and gain leverage, instead blindly trusting this guy. Her getting furious because he crossed her doesn't work because by the time she knows he has Kel'thuzad in his employ, she knows he's responsible for everything about her predicament if she's not a mental patient. Her asking him about what he means to do about Denathrius as if A) She has any reason to care and B) having now seen what he's about she has any reason to believe he cares either strains credulity even further. The idea that she considered herself a partner in crime and his plan usable for her ends before she actually meets him and loses all influence over the situation is fine. Her being completely unprepared and acting like a stroke victim in shock at how bad he is after it's shoved in her face what he's about doesn't. The setup requires her to be naive and stupid and develop values and care for people she's never had before as well as just take him at his word. That's why even the absolute steelman of the situation doesn't work.

    It could possibly have worked if she was portrayed in the Shadowlands as being under duress and desperate, knowing she fucked herself and has no way out since she's without leverage. You could even do most of the same plot beats. But she isn't, she's presented as someone with zero self-awareness who has to have Anduin explain something to her that's blindingly obvious and who turns on the Blue Man because of people she tried to kill and who would be unmade if she achieved her plan anyway.
    Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2021-07-07 at 07:07 PM.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

  14. #434
    The Lightbringer Minikin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontenac View Post
    I didn't get that at all. I doubt Sylvanas even knew she was missing a part of her soul. The Jailer obviously did not give that soul splinter back to her as a promised reward, but as a punishment. I believe she will suffer a lot when we see her again in the next patch. I mean, that soul sliver was unaltered by undeath. That good part of her will reflect on what the bad part did. Also, we know that undead senses are numbed and their souls twisted so that they can't feel their rotting body. Now that an untouched part of her soul got back to her, maybe she will...
    On that note. Her brains did get blown out in Cata. So maybe the rest of the soul is about to arrive in a body that's you know.......lacking certain key cognitive abilities.

    But maybe that's exactly why she didn't know that helping the guy who kelthuzad is in league with and caused her to die at Arthas hand is not really a great idea in the first place.
    Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of Asian players where many remarked on the Horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play (Source)

  15. #435
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    On that note. Her brains did get blown out in Cata. So maybe the rest of the soul is about to arrive in a body that's you know.......lacking certain key cognitive abilities.
    The plot twist is that the thing the Jailer threw at her was her crystallized brain and she fell unconscious out of shock at her own stupidity.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

  16. #436
    Let's say a mortgage / lending corporation (for the purposes of this example we will name this corporation "Countrywide") does a lot of bad dealings and evil stuff and eventually ruins the dreams of millions of homeowners and crashes the economy. Before they can be fully punished, they merge with some other entity (in this example, let's say they merge with Bank of America). Should Bank of America be held accountable? Many of the employees of Countrywide that were involved in the mess would still be there, just employed by B of A along with others that had nothing to do with it.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  17. #437
    I think I like the explanation that Sylvanas is so mongoloid because her brains somehow got damaged severely when Godfrey shot her in the head, it makes sense. Even if the Val'kyrs restored her back to "life" they likely couldn't fix her brain, which was kind of blown up. That happens when you get shot at point blank range by a magical shotgun in the head.

    So Yeah I think Sylvanas is so dumb because her brain is quite literally splattered all over her skull or something like that. Maybe it's got a huge hole in it from Godfrey's shot.
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  18. #438
    The Lightbringer Minikin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    The plot twist is that the thing the Jailer threw at her was her crystallized brain and she fell unconscious out of shock at her own stupidity.
    You realize what this means right?

    Sylvanas fought against a werewolf and came out on top.

    Sylvanas fought demons and came out on top.

    Sylvanas fought one of the best damn warriors in the world and came out on top.

    Sylvanas fought the Lich King and came out on top.

    Sylvanas fought the night warrior and came out on top.

    Sylvanas fought Lord Vincent Godfrey, and he one shot her.

    Cosmic forces 0, bullet 1
    Last edited by Minikin; 2021-07-07 at 07:15 PM. Reason: Forgot my boy Saurfang
    Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of Asian players where many remarked on the Horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play (Source)

  19. #439
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    So Yeah I think Sylvanas is so dumb because her brain is quite literally splattered all over her skull or something like that. Maybe it's got a huge hole in it from Godfrey's shot.
    A compelling theory but let down by her trusting Varimathras and powersliding into a sword before that happened. The brainrot set in in life, it just advanced in death. The Val'kyr harvested more and more brain matter with every resurrection and she wears the hood to conceal that the back of her head is concave.

    @Minikin

    He can rest easy knowing he tried to stop this. Also that bullet is tougher than a sheer drop from Icecrown Citadel and the rage of Elune.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

  20. #440
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonrage View Post
    I couldn't understand a thing the Jailer was saying. Someone get him in speech therapy.
    Was your volume on?
    "You know you that bitch when you cause all this conversation."

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