Sanctum of Domination Ending cinematic

[Aliven]

They're literally infertile and have no sexual drive. I wouldn't... call them that.

I don't like 40K orks because Warcraft ones are 100 times more interesting.

C'mon, the WH40K lore and basically everything in is pure campiness and heavy metal. It is cringe as fuck. Yes, i like that cringe. Is commisar waving his sword while his crew driving Leman Russ cool? Oh hell yeah! Is it cringe as fuck? Oh hell yeah!

Same with space marines, i mean, i cant take anything from that lore and world seriously and i love Wh40k and WFB.

[shoc]

What makes no sense is the power boost Sylvanas got when she allied with the Jailer.

If the Jailer had that kind of power to throw around, why doesn't he do anything himself? Makes no sense.

[Soon-TM]

Was your volume on?

I don't know, I had volume on and still couldn't understand a word of what he said. Really gotta thank YT for those convenient subtitles.

More OT, her being shocked by the word "serve" after all she's done... WTF? Did writers forget what she said in e.g. Three Sisters or is she just schizophrenic, with megalomany and memory loss on top?

[Archmage Xaxxas]

More OT, her being shocked by the word "serve" after all she's done... WTF? Did writers forget what she said in e.g. Three Sisters or is she just schizophrenic, with megalomany and memory loss on top?

Yea this really sets up that moment as being about as petty and unheroic an attempt to stop the big bad as can be.

She simply doesn't want to be bossed HERSELF, but is fine with bossing others around.

I mean if that's what we're going with, okay, that's not very compelling.

[FightingFarse]

Congratulations to Steve Daloser are in order.
I thought he could not do something more crap than what he did until now, but the absolute madman did it!

[cirdanx]

No, where it falls apart irreparably is when she actually enters the Maw and gets to meet him.

From a current view on the story, yes.

Overall, no, the story fell apart when they tried to make us believe that Sylvanas was in “partnership” with the Jailer since Wotlk.

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What makes no sense is the power boost Sylvanas got when she allied with the Jailer.

If the Jailer had that kind of power to throw around, why doesn't he do anything himself? Makes no sense.

But what boost did she get? Chains? Thats it? Where is the real power boost we can see, and don´t give me the LK cinematic because it´s chains...

[Super Dickmann]

From a current view on the story, yes.

Overall, no, the story fell apart when they tried to make us believe that Sylvanas was in “partnership” with the Jailer since Wotlk.

Oh, obviously. It's why I prefaced it by saying I wouldn't even bother discussing that aspect. Tying the resolution of a character with nearly 20 years in the franchise to one with less than two and making her his proxy after elimating her prior motivation and rewriting her internal monologue twice over would never have worked even if the execution were magnitudes better than what it was. The whole point of the post is that even if you take the story as presented at its strongest possible interpretation there's still a hurdle it can't clear when it comes to its internal coherence and it consequently fails.

[Jastall]

I don't know what people mean when they dislike it that hard. I have to say, as incredibly janky and cheap as the cinematic was, seeing the Warchief tell not just this throw-away grey raid boss, but also the entire moral framework of the last few terrible expansion plots he was stuck in to go fuck themselves, proclaim that he did nothing wrong and go out one last time on his own terms was unironically enjoyable. For it to end any other way would have been out of character and for once I don't think anyone can seriously argue Blizzard didn't capture both the spirit of his character and his appeal.

Press F(or the Horde) for Garrosh.

Oh, you mean the Sylvanas one? Dear fucking christ, where do I start?

For one, coming out of a raid fight entirely unscathed removes the entire point of making a character a raid boss. This was the case for Jaina, it is even more the case here because the players are literally right behind her in this scene and it ends with her knocked out but with them having zero role to it. The mark of a completely failed right fight is that you could cut it and zero would change.

For another, while the Blue Man's new design is marginally better, it's still aggressively boring. You could swap it in for any of his minions' designs and save for the pants I doubt anyone would even notice. No chance of a personality transplant either, but I will say that possibly the only marginally nice thing to be said about this cinematic is that him stopping his grand plan just to dick around with some randos and then giving Sylvanas her soul back just to incapacitate her and let the Bland Gang deal with her is at least some characterization and I found it pretty funny.

As for the elephant in the room, everything regarding Sylvanas's lolredemption is fucking wretched from beginning to end. The soul split thing will always have been an agency stripping device and get out of jail free card, but the absolute most dire part about it is that it's also completely unnecessary and contradictory since all her Sad (TM) looks these last few cutscene show that she wasn't controlled in the first place, so what's the point? Unless of course, what he threw back at her was her IQ and she fell unconscious because the realization of her own crippling mental retardation was too much for her to hold. The entire premise of rewriting Sylvanas to have always been about trusting the least trustworthy man in the universe who didn't exist until five minutes ago was always a drama sinkhole, but to have her turn on him over him stating what was blatantly his motive, and not over torturing a gorillion souls is something else entirely. It takes a million being statistic to the next level. It satisfies absolutely no one - absolutely everyone who wanted any kind of even temporary enjoyment of beating a raid boss, something that Garrosh (PBUH) got, gets zilch as she is totally unharmed and undeterred and scheduled for an abysmal redemption. Everyone who wanted the character to regain her past characterization and die on her own terms, again like Garrosh, is shit out of luck - her past characterization was externally induced and it's actually this plot device the Blue Man chucked at her that will reveal her true personality, presumably as an Anduinist.

@VladlTutushkin Beer?

I gotta say I... kind of actually like the armor. It's not Arthas-tier of good, not even close, but it's far better than him looking like a magical bum. The Primus and Denathrius both still look cooler however.

Yeah, Sylvanas being a braindead moron is the main takeaway, and at the risk of invoking Death of the Author (which I generally don't like doing), it's what I interpret as canon. Sylvanas was always an imbecile; it's why she powerslid into Frostmourne, it's why she failed in her attempt to ambush Arthas, it's why she trusted the likes of Varimathras or Lord Godfrey, it's why she basically failed upwards for the entirety of her runtime in the MMO, it's why her motives, plans and personality all shift around on a dime, and it's finally why she is full on team Jailer despite friggin Gul'dan looking and sounding less evil and untrustworthy than this guy. It all makes sense now in its own hilarious way, and it's the only way I'll ever interpret the character moving forward; always remember that she's the one stupidest character in Warcraft, which is no mean feat by the by.

I dunno who they wanted to satisfy with this, besides Danuser's... peculiar hard-on for the character. At least I can see why they don't change Anduin, besides Golden loving her perfect boy there are also a decent chunk of players who like his brand of Lawful Good. But who actually wants to see Sylvanas, a character previously defined by being ruthless and underhanded, be hit with a massive dose of both stupidity and redemption? Who actually wants her living soul (?) forced back into her so she forcibly becomes a nicer person? Not the ones who hate her and want overdue justice, which even her boss fight doesn't provide as it ends at 50% HP, and certainly not the fans of a character that literally gets a personality transplant before their eyes.

As for Garrosh, he indeed died as he lived, shouting and doing pointless chest-thumping shenanigans. If nothing else, at least he was consistent.

[cirdanx]

Oh, obviously. It's why I prefaced it by saying I wouldn't even bother discussing that aspect. Tying the resolution of a character with nearly 20 years in the franchise to one with less than two and making her his proxy after elimating her prior motivation and rewriting her internal monologue twice over would never have worked even if the execution were magnitudes better than what it was. The whole point of the post is that even if you take the story as presented at its strongest possible interpretation there's still a hurdle it can't clear when it comes to its internal coherence and it consequently fails.

A hurdle..many of them.

But you are absolutely right. Nothing to say a against this. I 99% agree.

[Luler]

At long last, his true form... generic Torghast mob... whoa...

[shoc]

From a current view on the story, yes.

Overall, no, the story fell apart when they tried to make us believe that Sylvanas was in “partnership” with the Jailer since Wotlk.

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But what boost did she get? Chains? Thats it? Where is the real power boost we can see, and don´t give me the LK cinematic because it´s chains...

Shadow magic Kamehameha vs. Saurfang.

[Gorsameth]

Did writers forget what she said in e.g. Three Sisters?

Yes?

to quote game of thrones memes. They kinda forgot.

[arrantprac]

Sylvanas needing until that moment to realize she shouldn't be helping the Jailer was like Buster Bluth figuring out Oscar was his real father.

[fuzzylogic111]

Sylvanas needing until that moment to realize she shouldn't be helping the Jailer was like Buster Bluth figuring out Oscar was his real father.

When you have little to lose you take chances. Even if you know you are gambling, act like it's a sure thing. None of this is a stretch if you are willing to entertain her point of view.

[Saltysquidoon]

When you have little to lose you take chances. Even if you know you are gambling, act like it's a sure thing. None of this is a stretch if you are willing to entertain her point of view.

Even from 'her point of view' the sudden realisation the evil man is in fact evil only really works if we had seen him justifying his acts to slyvanas with honeyed words or pretending to be a true believer and to honestly be working with slyvanas towards a shared goal only to let the mask slip when he's won.
Instead, all he's ever been is a generic gloating evil blob that jerks off his own evilness constantly, oh and his primary tactic has been enslaving beings to serve him. You literally have to be sylvanas stupid (apparently) to not have even thought about the possibility of this outcome till it actually happens.

Even if you want to accept the premise as workable, the buildup and execution is horrendously botched.

[arrantprac]

Even from 'her point of view' the sudden realisation the evil man is in fact evil only really works if we had seen him justifying his acts to slyvanas with honeyed words or pretending to be a true believer and to honestly be working with slyvanas towards a shared goal only to let the mask slip when he's won.
Instead, all he's ever been is a generic gloating evil blob that jerks off his own evilness constantly, oh and his primary tactic has been enslaving beings to serve him. You literally have to be sylvanas stupid (apparently) to not have even thought about the possibility of this outcome till it actually happens.

Even if you want to accept the premise as workable, the buildup and execution is horrendously botched.

In my version of this story she would have quickly seen the Jailer's true intentions after arriving in the Maw and developed her own plan to betray him. Let him break free and invade Azeroth but sabotage him in some way or secretly give us some advantage to ensure we defeat him. Then while we're all distracted she can take over the Shadowlands for herself, say by possessing the Arbiter's body or something. And the final patch would have us invade and destroy the new paradise realm she created for us.

She burned down Teldrassil for this.

She started a pointless war for this.

FFS now that her moment is here LET HER ACTUALLY ATTEMPT TO DO THE THING.

[javierdsv]

She is no longer the Souless Darkness-filled Sylvanas... She is now the Ranger-General High Elf that died protecting her homeland.

There's no point on hating her anymore.
You can't hate her anymore.

Let it go.

[TheFirstOnes]

Golden liked this tweet so I’m guessing the next patch will lead up to some self-reflection(pity) storylines for Sylvanas as she struggles to come to terms with what she’s done.

https://twitter.com/daughterof_seas/...701718534?s=21

Meh, I’d rather she just died on her sword believing what she was doing.

Full Power Zovaal: Since you helped me, reflect on the shit you did. Bye...BITCH! *Dips*

Sylvanas:

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She is no longer the Souless Darkness-filled Sylvanas... She is now the Ranger-General High Elf that died protecting her homeland.

There's no point on hating her anymore.
You can't hate her anymore.

Let it go.

I think there's still plenty of reason to hate her, and I'm sure Blizzard acknowledges that.

[Vakir]

She is no longer the Souless Darkness-filled Sylvanas... She is now the Ranger-General High Elf that died protecting her homeland.

There's no point on hating her anymore.
You can't hate her anymore.

Let it go.

Do you not understand how that robs the character of any agency or meaning? It just means that for the last 19 years Sylvanas was a half-existing brainlet. Character decisions and stakes need to matter. She can be influenced in part by her experiences, especially on a figurative level (plenty have pointed out that her having her spirit ripped away was already a decent sexual assault and trauma metaphor) but it can't be a literal object that influences her character to be one thing or another.

[javierdsv]

Do you not understand how that robs the character of any agency or meaning? It just means that for the last 19 years Sylvanas was a half-existing brainlet. Character decisions and stakes need to matter. She can be influenced in part by her experiences, especially on a figurative level (plenty have pointed out that her having her spirit ripped away was already a decent sexual assault and trauma metaphor) but it can't be a literal object that influences her character to be one thing or another.

There's a high chance her memories will haunt her, and there is a high chance Blizzard will throw the "feel pity" card on us when she feels remorse and goes crazy thinking of all the things she did but was not fully in control of because instead of a soul all she had was darkness inside.

And yes, she was just a half-existing brainlet.