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  1. #221
    Titan Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildberry View Post
    Temporarily popping back onto the forums again to say I regret nothing in my posting career, and I have been completely and eternally vindicated in my support of Garrosh.

    I said he did nothing wrong, he said he did nothing wrong, and ultimately, even Blizzard's own writing team admitted he did nothing wrong in sparing him of the treatment every other character has received in Shadowlands.

    F for the best character.
    Doing just the same to confirm that this little, barely useful cinematic is the best this one character and its fans could hope, since it honors the past and that's it. When compared to the levels of ridicule the newest, embarassing lows of Blizzard's writing that are hitting most of the remaining characters (with Sylvanas being the most hilarious case of all) that's indeed merciful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    The game didn't give me any good reason to hate the horde. Forums did that.

  2. #222
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    she did said she wanted to portray him and others less of a "toxic masculinity shenanigans", so she got the main role with him and Baine.
    The only main role she has is in books short story’s and other supplementary material she’s said a bunch that she doesn’t work on the wow team and doesn’t work on the ingame story outside of writing cutscenes.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  3. #223
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    The only main role she has is in books short story’s and other supplementary material she’s said a bunch that she doesn’t work on the wow team and doesn’t work on the ingame story outside of writing cutscenes.
    she was invited in bfa to actively write the lore too, she is part of wow team as a wow writer and not just on the cutscenes.

  4. #224
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    she was invited in bfa to actively write the lore too, she is part of wow team as a wow writer and not just on the cutscenes.
    Not quite no, thankfully she made a recent tweet so I don’t have to dig for the old ones.

    Christie Golden

    Actually, thanks for the chance for me to explain that I am not on the WoW team. I work for Story and Franchise Development, always have, and we work with all the teams when we are asked to regarding comics, novellas, cinematics, etc. So I can't comment on your question, sorry!
    https://mobile.twitter.com/ChristieG...51852786294786

    She’s gone as far as saying she can’t even confirm genn’s age in the past as she’s not involved in the lore that way.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  5. #225
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Not quite no, thankfully she made a recent tweet so I don’t have to dig for the old ones.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/ChristieG...51852786294786

    She’s gone as far as saying she can’t even confirm genn’s age in the past as she’s not involved in the lore that way.
    Then she moved away, cause old twitters say she was indeed part of the wow writing team, even said she was glad by the invite and all.

  6. #226
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Then she moved away, cause old twitters say she was indeed part of the wow writing team, even said she was glad by the invite and all.
    She’s said her self she’s always been on the Story/Franchise Team, but here’s another quote from 2018 where she says the same that she’s not on the wow team.
    Christie Golden

    I am not "in charge" of the WoW story. I don't even work for the WoW team, I work for CDev/SFD, where I interact with all the game teams. I do not direct where the game is going. I write cinematics, novels/novellas, song lyrics (Hearthstone yay) and comics,
    https://mobile.twitter.com/christieg...98236299653120
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by shimerra View Post
    Yeah Garrosh was always the idiots idea of a tough man. He was a moron and the single good thing about his entire story is they let us see the dumb sack of shit die twice.
    That's the thing about this being a story, a fiction, and a fantasy. Would I support a Garrosh personality as a leader in real life? Hell no. But setting my modern human sensibilities aside and viewing Garrosh as an orc leader from an orc perspective, he's totally a badass; and the rash decisions are a part of that. Thrall the Philosopher and Saurfang the Remorseful have always been stated to be the outliers in orc culture. While I love both of them as characters as well, Garrosh brought a vibe change that was cool to play through.

    Thrall brought purpose, direction, and meaning to a Horde no longer driven by the Legion. The Hellscreams, though, they brought that "no holds barred" savage vibe that made the Horde different from the Alliance in tone.

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Archmage Xaxxas View Post




    Whiteboards at Blizz right now probably say "ORCS??"
    lul, so maybe now the forsaken can return to their pre retcons state xD

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by BrintoSFJ View Post
    It sickens me how people revere this worthless piece of shit! He was literally the worst warchief, every single of his war strategies sucked. And as soon as he realized that his idiotoc plan was failing and he was about to lose, he used underhanded means to achieve "victory" and claimed everything was according to his plan. What a fucking loser! But trickery and shitfuckery can only take someone for so long, so finally he was indeed defeated like the useless coward he is. Even in his last moment, he merely managed to take out a half dead trash! I have no idea what Thrall saw in him, Saurfang would have been a much better warchief.
    dude, the 2 things you are describing arent in contradiction.
    im fucking love garrosh and his end, still i wont side with him during pandaria, because you know, being a racist prick that hate undeath cant coexists with my ex character (a forsaken). but i still can appreciate his consistency (less the stonelaton fuck up)
    12/6/2009 -23/11/2020 rip little deathstalker Ferretti. proud forsaken, enemy of the livings

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Did you not play bfa? Burning thousands of civilians in teldrassila or firing bombing faker markets and then pinning parants to walls with spears in front of there kids aren’t dark evil horrors of war?
    Did YOU not play BFA? Even Sylvanas sympathizers were forced to turn on her basically and watch her give up the horde, and victory, over "feelings" basically. Just like Garrosh, they deux ex machina out a proper warchief on the verge of victory.

    VICTORY in war is all that matters.

  10. #230
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    no, that was not the case, because one: he was a good writen character,
    No, that is the case. He was never a well written character, maybe perhaps during Wrath when he was made to be just another dumb, "me make war" orc.

    of course, like people care about it, thats the reason why everyone is commenting here,
    Considering I haven't claimed this to be the reason why people are commenting here, this is nothing but a red herring on your part.

    his assassination attempt was not a war strategy, lmao,
    Aside from the fact that, yes, his "war strategies" failed too, keep in mind you're basically saying here that Garrosh is incompetent to anything that doesn't exclusively pertain to "war".

    and it didn't succed because plot armor
    "Didn't happen because of plot armor" is a dumb argument, especially since "plot armor" did not save Vol'jin two expansions later. Regardless, it's another failure in Garrosh's repertoire.

    ah yes, the clearly the Circular Logic fallacy, you never change.
    A "circular logic" you never demonstrated exist, only claimed it does.

    Of course you are ignoring his war strategies working on WTLK, Cataclysm and most of mop, and say it didn't worked, because he lost in the end, truly a fallacious argument.
    Ah yes. The "war strategies" in which Saurfang berated him for being hot-headed and impulsive like his father.

    Baine should have punished his own people.
    So you're saying the warchief of the Horde is powerless to enact justice when one of his subordinates wrongs him and makes him an accessory to murder.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Fantasy race analogies are especially poor in Warcraft and fail by default because A) All participants in the plot are 100% ethnostates so every war is a race war B) Races have demonstrable, immutable characteristics. Gnolls are in fact dumber and more aggressive than Night Elves.
    last time i check gnolls never fucked up with their wizardry, unlike nelves that could fuck up with arcane, fel, shadow and nature (maybe even light with now ssj tyrande)
    Last edited by omeomorfismo; 2021-07-09 at 04:01 PM.
    12/6/2009 -23/11/2020 rip little deathstalker Ferretti. proud forsaken, enemy of the livings

  12. #232
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Did YOU not play BFA? Even Sylvanas sympathizers were forced to turn on her basically and watch her give up the horde, and victory, over "feelings" basically. Just like Garrosh, they deux ex machina out a proper warchief on the verge of victory.

    VICTORY in war is all that matters.
    Turning on sylvanas really has nothing to do with bfa show casing the horrors of war. While the ending was lame the war it self is likely the most brutal we have ever had in wow if not quite reaching Warcraft 1-3 levels.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    You mean he was the best warchief and every single of his war strategies worked? cause he single handed turn the tide of the war and almost came up winning, it had to get alliance and horde to defeat him
    thats not true, untill you finally want give the fact that garrosh wanted to genocide the forsaken in the gilneas wall xD
    Last edited by omeomorfismo; 2021-07-09 at 04:19 PM.
    12/6/2009 -23/11/2020 rip little deathstalker Ferretti. proud forsaken, enemy of the livings

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Turning on sylvanas really has nothing to do with bfa show casing the horrors of war. While the ending was lame the war it self is likely the most brutal we have ever had in wow if not quite reaching Warcraft 1-3 levels.
    Hardcore disagree. The start was great, ill give you that, but after that it became anything BUT the war for azeroth. Jaina deux ex machina'd out of danger instead of DYING which would have actually given the war high stakes. No territory was won or last, unlike the last war, and even tho Teldrissel was burned and Lorderon lost again... how many characters of significance actually died in it? Faceless background soldiers that don't mean anything to war, do not make the war feel impactful. Imagine for example you played WC2-3, and only your footsoldiers ever died. Wars are meant to have real consequences and horrors, and i just didn't see it in BFA. It was like a saturday morning cartoon version of conflict, except the autobots and decepticons ACTUALLY died in that film.

    Why does every damn lore character have to have plot armor so thick that not even wolverine could cut into it? I don't even mean top 5 lore characters either, but how did every lesser lore character also make it out of harms way? I mean, come on... is that even a war or a friendly skirmish?

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by gcsmith View Post
    Small things like this give some small hope that the end game of this Sylvannas stuff isn't just hand waving away her actions. It's a stupid hope... but still.
    Does it though?

    Garrosh did equally as much damage, and in all honesty, probably more. You can throw Arthas in that boat as well.

    So you want her punished, but not him? Him saying he would do it all again is okay, but her showing remorse makes her actions worse than his?

    Just trying to follow folk's logic at this point. We're perfectly okay, and love characters like Arthas, and Garrosh who have murdered countless innocent people. But if you burn a tree and kill tree people, you're the worst person ever.

    I don't like Sylvannas, I'm still just trying to figure out the insane amount of hypocrisy within the wow community. It's almost as bad as Blizzard writing at this point.

  16. #236
    Elemental Lord sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galathir View Post
    I remember them saying they wanted for Shadowlands to have about the amount of real cinematics BfA did. So far beside the opening cinematic I have just seen the short character trailer showing the (then still) four leaders and the Jailer. Everything else was just ingame style cutscenes.
    did i miss something? there is zero BFA cinematic quality in SL so far, i just made thread puzzled why they didn't do the most positive thing out of BFA again
    what cinematic u talking about?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by agentsi View Post
    Does it though?
    u forgot AU Grom, we forgave him and he is no competition worse than everyone else, he started genocide against entire planet, kill any sentient being in it, genocide against all other races, and all he did to 'redeem' himself is think we 'heroes' are 'cool' and voila, he got out of it free zero punishment, in fact they turned Yrel to evil light fanatic (which actually a good twist, but not the point) and he stayed good and hero to his death!
    Seems blizz intending to repeat Grom 2.0, the backlash against AU Grom was way too weak and low that blizz ignored it sadly it seems
    I honestly thought we were clear that was stupid, either blizz is so isolated from us they didn't notice, or (most likely) backlash was quiet weak that they can ignore it
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
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    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by agentsi View Post
    Just trying to follow folk's logic at this point. We're perfectly okay, and love characters like Arthas, and Garrosh who have murdered countless innocent people. But if you burn a tree and kill tree people, you're the worst person ever.
    Garrosh just killed soldiers and military targets as well as bomb military cities while letting civilians escape. Sylvanas just bombed a civilian city without caring.

    That's the difference. And don't you deny it.

    Garrosh is a legitimate military adversary, Sylvanas is a full blown terrorist.

  18. #238
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Hardcore disagree. The start was great, ill give you that, but after that it became anything BUT the war for azeroth. Jaina deux ex machina'd out of danger instead of DYING which would have actually given the war high stakes. No territory was won or last, unlike the last war, and even tho Teldrissel was burned and Lorderon lost again... how many characters of significance actually died in it? Faceless background soldiers that don't mean anything to war, do not make the war feel impactful. Imagine for example you played WC2-3, and only your footsoldiers ever died. Wars are meant to have real consequences and horrors, and i just didn't see it in BFA. It was like a saturday morning cartoon version of conflict, except the autobots and decepticons ACTUALLY died in that film.

    Why does every damn lore character have to have plot armor so thick that not even wolverine could cut into it? I don't even mean top 5 lore characters either, but how did every lesser lore character also make it out of harms way? I mean, come on... is that even a war or a friendly skirmish?
    What your describing Is more so decisive plot shaping battles not the horrors of war. Things like the gas attacks on the trench’s in Ww1, burning towns full of non combatants to break the army’s will or cut off supply lines human testing of new weapons to deploy in the field ect, are the horrors of war even if major generals or leaders aren’t directly taken out.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  19. #239
    Do not fret. They still have AU Garrosh to ruin.

  20. #240
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    No, that is the case. He was never a well written character, maybe perhaps during Wrath when he was made to be just another dumb, "me make war" orc.
    He was a well writen character, you don't like it, that is your problem.
    Considering I haven't claimed this to be the reason why people are commenting here, this is nothing but a red herring on your part.
    you literally said it was, trying to backpedal much hun?
    Aside from the fact that, yes, his "war strategies" failed too, keep in mind you're basically saying here that Garrosh is incompetent to anything that doesn't exclusively pertain to "war".

    He is a warrior, or course his area of expertise will be in the battlefield, you want to claim medics are inconpetent because they can fix a car? jesus
    "Didn't happen because of plot armor" is a dumb argument, especially since "plot armor" did not save Vol'jin two expansions later. Regardless, it's another failure in Garrosh's repertoire.
    He got stabbed by a poison that was made to stop troll generation, and yet it didn't work on him because ~~reasons~~ that is the definition of plot armor.

    Saying something is not plot armor because the plot armor ended alter is a weak attemtpt for circular logic once again.
    Ah yes. The "war strategies" in which Saurfang berated him for being hot-headed and impulsive like his father.
    And Saurfang said himself that were well effective?

    So you're saying the warchief of the Horde is powerless to enact justice when one of his subordinates wrongs him and makes him an accessory to murder.
    No, but it is fitting that the high chieftian of the tauren enact justice upon the death of his own father. Instead, he chose exile.

    Besides, she was already leaved orgrimmar and took thudnerbluff, He denied to help her, and could ahd helped Baine if he asked.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by omeomorfismo View Post
    thats not true, untill you finally want give the fact that garrosh wanted to genocide the forsaken in the gilneas wall xD
    how that is not true? he single handed turn the tide in the war back in cataclysm and made the horde a super power to stand against the alliance, won definitive battles, took land for the horde and much more.

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