Salut to all the important characters that died this patch.

[Jackstraw]

I have a somewhat valid question. If the Jailer is headed to Azeroth after his whole changing reality. Who is even left alive that would offer some level of power to aid us. We’ve systematically killed every being of power in Azeroth. We have friendly Elemental Lords, 3 Dragonflights and a couple of powerful mages. There isn’t much left.

Once we got this metaphysical, the only things I can see are the originators of the universe and the infinite dragonflight. So basically the intrinsic concept of time and its unmaking, and reality as a whole.

That or the TBC treatment, asking adventurers who fought against the Scourge and its masters to go put their hands into goat poo to recover berries that allow underwater breathing if ingested.

[Alexeht]

If you're helping under threat or no tangible benefit, that's servitude. Sylvanas had no agency and all she did was further the Jailer's plot.
Call it however you like, a pawn is a pawn. That's the ruination of the Jailer: making room for his supposed grand scheme is detrimental to everything it involves.

Now I want to hear your opinion about Anduin the Puppet ... Is he responsible for what he is doing now or not? Because he is being controlled does that mean he is much weaker than Sylvanas?

[Mehrunes]

If you're helping under threat or no tangible benefit, that's servitude. Sylvanas had no agency and all she did was further the Jailer's plot.
Call it however you like, a pawn is a pawn. That's the ruination of the Jailer: making room for his supposed grand scheme is detrimental to everything it involves.

She did have a tangible benefit in mind though. The Jailer rewriting reality, because she hates the way things work right now. Just without the "all will serve me after I do that" part. As I mentioned before, Blizzard was insistent on saying Sylvanas is the Jailer's ally.

[Niwes]

Don't forget the Arbiter.

Her entire character is "don't let her die." And then she dies.

yeah, now you have a picture of what EXACTLY is happening in Danusers mind, day by day.

i clearly can imagine him, standing in the kitchen and going „i want beer. cool beer. now!“, taking a cup of hot coffee, going back to his desk and resume writing good wow stories.

[Jackstraw]

Now I want to hear your opinion about Anduin the Puppet ... Is he responsible for what he is doing now or not? Because he is being controlled does that mean he is much weaker than Sylvanas?

I don't see how him being controller makes him any stronger or weaker than somebody who retains his free will. If anything, he's now posed to be stronger than he's ever been.

She did have a tangible benefit in mind though. The Jailer rewriting reality, because she hates the way things work right now. Just without the "all will serve me after I do that" part. As I mentioned before, Blizzard was insistent on saying Sylvanas is the Jailer's ally.

May it be so, and I had deep trust in Sylvanas' overall vision. What we've been presented with is real close to a servant or a henchman. Anduin's scene you mentioned, as poignant as it could have been despite eroding whatever what was left of her character, shows her lack of agency on the overall direction of the Jailer's plan, a plan that's not exposed and driven to convinction, but imposed and not even for any greater purpose but because the Jailer wills it.

I stand by my reasoning that if Sylvanas was to properly pass as an ally to the Jailer, then some more nuance was required.

[Soon-TM]

Man, and I thought that throwing Aszhara and Tentacle Boi to the wolves in BfA had been bad enough. Now we have a bunch of big names to kill... In a single patch? WTF???

[Daronokk]

Garrosh - goes out like a chad, kills himself and his captor

There is no actual confirmation he's dead dead. He just kills his captor and vanishes.

And logically he shouldn't be dead dead anyway, since all AU versions of characters merge into one in the Shadowlands. And the Bronze Dragons spoke of Garrosh being a good Warchief in many universes except for ours. So if all versions of Garrosh are to combine in the Shadowlands he should be a good guy, not a bad guy. Why would all the good versions of Garrosh be punished in the Shadowlands for one version being supposedly bad? Doesn't make sense. Heck, we don't even know if the other versions are even dead in their timeline, they could even still be living.

Garrosh will be back, just wait and see. People talked about Ner'zhul being dead for years because of an ambiguous quote in a book, yet Ner'zhul appeared in-game twice. The same happens now, it leaves everything open for interpretation. And the same happened with Grommash in the Mag'har scenario. If Blizzard wants to they can bring back these characters easily.

Deathwing died many times in the lore but always came back. Teron Gorefiend the same. Vol'jin. Shaohao. Turalyon and Alleria. Nobody ever truly stays dead in Warcraft.

[Maljinwo]

Let's not forget Sylvanas Windrunner.

We didn't kill her, but Sylvanas as we knew her is fucking dead.

That happens every time we go into her mind. She's a different character every expansion

[Myradin]

Only one I'm really surprised by is Kel'thuzad since blizz has used him for marketing a few times and does throw him a bone now and then.

Ner'Zhul was never going to be a big thing in wow. If he wasn't going to be relevant in Wrath, no other depiction of him was going to ever have a point.

Garrosh and Saurfang's stories are done. They are cameos at best, and keeping them around just perpetuates the 'horde needs to stop being bad' plot.

[Ethas]

Don't forget the Arbiter.

Her entire character is "don't let her die." And then she dies.

Well, she is a construction put in place of Zovaal. Can’t sympathize the machine.

[deviantcultist]

Let's not forget Sylvanas Windrunner.

We didn't kill her, but Sylvanas as we knew her is fucking dead.

That's the truth indeed. Although like I said in another thread, it's more like she is playing the insanity plead at court right now. The moment we all saw the "two souls" BS we knew this was coming.

They managed to fail both the fans and the haters due to her being both still alive AND not herself anymore. No way they couldn't see this coming...

[bagina]

it's more like she is playing the insanity plead at court right now. .

That is such a great way to put it. Agree wholeheartedly.

[Nuba]

You don't know that, and everyone had a different reason why they liked (or hated) her. I think the real reason why I liked her was her unbreakable will to not be a pawn of someone else, and she showed that when she was alive AND after death.

what?? When she was alive she literally was a MILITARY officer, absolutely and totally under the command of the then stablished Elven military hierarchy? Then she was a pawn the LK, then she was a pawn of the jailer
Wait.... are you RPing as your avatar?

- - - Updated - - -

So, heres a recap of all the once-major lore characters who died this patch:

Ner'zhul - dies unceremoniously as a throw-away mid-raid boss
Kel'Thuzad - dies unceremoniously as the penultimate boss
Garrosh - goes out like a chad, kills himself and his captor
Varok Saurfang - literally drops as a random trinket from Sylvanas

I salute all these characters.
They are finally free of this terrible story, and can't be ruined by Blizz any further, unlike the unlucky ones still alive.

That is, until we go to the Shadow-Shadowlands in 6 xpacs ofc, the TRUE afterlife that is beyond even the First Ones, where we meet them all again.
Shit.

I have a feeling that garrosh scene was sneaked in to the game by some dev that has been with the company for a very long time and at this moment probably has quit.
It'll probably be the last respectable "FOR THE HORDE!" we'll ever see in WoW

[erifwodahs]

Let's not forget Sylvanas Windrunner.

We didn't kill her, but Sylvanas as we knew her is fucking dead.

Well, at least we can kill her now, then she dies - goes to the maw and we kill her again for 50 stygia.

[Hubbl3]

The biggest offender imho. What was the point of his return?

"Hey, look at these cool characters we used to have!" -Blizz

[Civciv]

Well, she is a construction put in place of Zovaal. Can’t sympathize the machine.

(Marvel) Vision : And I took that personal.

[Alexeht]

what?? When she was alive she literally was a MILITARY officer, absolutely and totally under the command of the then stablished Elven military hierarchy? Then she was a pawn the LK, MISSING STUFF then she was a pawn of the jailer
Wait.... are you RPing as your avatar?

You missed the time when she was doing her own stuff. Also, do you have to say anything else than ad-hominem instead of actual arguments? Using your logic everyone is someone else's pawn, excluding Nat Pagle ...

- - - Updated - - -

Well, at least we can kill her now, then she dies - goes to the maw and we kill her again for 50 stygia.

you didn't watch the cinematic I think, we can only "defeat" her

[Shedaar]

Don't forget
"Protect the Arbiterrr rawrrr"
"She is key to everything wrrrrr"
and not only she is useless and weak but she also literally gets her orb sucked out, which may I add, wasn't hers to begin with :shrug:
I mean...
Who constructed arbiter with literally Jailer's heart in the middle of her tits, there, for the taking? Who thought it's a good idea? She should've had some auto destruction mechanism when Jailer enters Oribos or smth

[Dellis0991]

I love how Garrosh was like fuck this shit I'm out.

[Gurahk]

So, heres a recap of all the once-major lore characters who died this patch:

Ner'zhul - dies unceremoniously as a throw-away mid-raid boss
Kel'Thuzad - dies unceremoniously as the penultimate boss
Garrosh - goes out like a chad, kills himself and his captor
Varok Saurfang - literally drops as a random trinket from Sylvanas

I salute all these characters.
They are finally free of this terrible story, and can't be ruined by Blizz any further, unlike the unlucky ones still alive.

That is, until we go to the Shadow-Shadowlands in 6 xpacs ofc, the TRUE afterlife that is beyond even the First Ones, where we meet them all again.
Shit.

The Saurfang trinket thingy likely isn't canon lol, it's just a cool way to make a trinket.