Why do people hate Torghast so much?

[xxdprussxx]

As a hunter at the beginning of the xpac torghast sucks with no fun anima powers. Now I play my shamman and a whole lot better and more fun game breaking anima powers maybe thats why

[muto]

It's a mandatory check-list. Players don't like that. When you log into retail the first thing is "what do I HAVE to do". If you were to log into Classic or BC the first thing is "what do I WANT to do". Huge difference.

Yeah that. Tuesdays are known as “chore days”.

[Itisamuh]

People sure are strange. Torghast is literally, factually the least repetitive PvE content ever to exist in the game, but people are whining about it being repetitive? The same people that spam the same dungeons and raids week after week, month after month? Not to mention whining about it being a mandatory chore, when basically every other aspect of an MMO is no different? That being said, Torghast definitely does have some issues. This patch made it worse in every way with the scoring crap, and the class balance there is atrocious. If I get a certain anima power, my demon hunter can use nothing but immolation aura, and still beat it faster and easier than my rogue.

[Noctiphobia]

I see where you are coming from.
I for myself have no problems with the scoring in there though - I pick epics whenever I like and I pick duplicates, I simply run through this place while clearing everything fast and end up with 220+ (highest 257, while still taking dupes/epics) points.

I was doing it with my friend who plays healer and hates everything else, so the mobs were scaled up (there's some increased scaling for doing it with a healer IIRC), so everything had tons of health, so we had to make up for that.

[Glorious Leader]

It's a mandatory check-list. Players don't like that. When you log into retail the first thing is "what do I HAVE to do". If you were to log into Classic or BC the first thing is "what do I WANT to do". Huge difference.

Players also don't like having nothing to do especially ig thats being done in order to cater to the desire of some people who simple want to raid log.

[jlrm365]

*some people

I like it. Several people like it. It's something challenging, that doesn't require reliance on anyone else (though you can run in a party).
Sometimes things don't work out, but that's life and it makes things all the better when you overcome whatever had tripped you.

[Crimson Spears]

Players also don't like having nothing to do especially ig thats being done in order to cater to the desire of some people who simple want to raid log.

I mean they can just play other games. I can never really understand people who only enjoy a single video game or even hobby for that matter. I don't ask for all of wow to be engaging for me as that is incredibly selfish ( most players wouldn't survive world trash mobs if they posed a challenge to me a mythic CE raider before mythic ce existed).

Why is it wrong that some players would rather only play the bits of the game they enjoy and be free to go do something else in the in between? I find it a odd paradox that more lfr players run out of things to do then CE players.

[Kathranis]

If you run Torghast with a full party is it really that different from doing a couple Mythic Dungeon runs?

Only thing I could say is that they could spice it up by adding more encounter variety. But I don't see how it's any more repetitive than doing dungeons or raid logging.

[Shaetha]

Largely because it's mandatory. Of course people can have legitimate reasons why they might like/dislike something, but nothing kills fun like being told you have to do it (you know...if you want any legendaries...)

so people have decided to hate it because they've decided to hate it.

Good to know.

[Zalraki]

Choreghast is just that, a relatively long chore for minimal gain. It also has the same issue that I have with M+ where you do the same thing over and over but with more debuffs to artificially increase difficulty. In the end it's still the same instance with the same mobs that will just take longer and is more frustrating.

At least with M+ there's some character power to be gained in the form of loot and the vault. With Choreghast you get... a currency that you don't need anymore after a few runs. Even this 9.1 version is not much better except that it's 1 floor less. I'm not even going to do the extra levels because it's just too time consuming for some minor cosmetics.

Another part that sucks is the fact that eventually you finish the run and go back out, losing everything that was fun in the process and you're faced with the realization that you're back to your normal balanced-around-how-much-time-blizzard-wants-you-to-spend-on-killing-a-mob class.

[Tojara]

I don't know, the only thing I don't understand is the people who hate Torghast more since the patch, which makes little sense to me. It takes less time to do, and by that logic making something that you're "forced" to do take less time should logically just be better than it was before.

For a mandatory system it's pretty tame, but I think some people take it to absolute extremes. Unless you're the type of player that just wants everything, to which you're just going to play a lot anyway? I got a single legendary item on my alts for the role they perform in a few weeks, and then I stopped doing Torghast on them. I continued to do it on my main because he performs multiple roles, and then I stopped doing Torghast. Not because I hate it, but because I don't "really" need to do it.

9.1 sort of makes this even less of a necessity. You can just do it on your fastest character and transfer it to alternate characters if you want, and getting baseline T3 (out of now T5 legendary) is insanely cheap and really quick to get. Nearly all of the power of legendary items come from the effect attached to the item itself, and not really the iLvL. Are you missing out on some throughput? Yeah, but it's pretty miniscule by comparison and won't remotely break your character. The time investment is pretty small.

Not to defend Blizzard, but in some ways they can't win. I'm of the opinion that gating certain things or making you feel like you have fallen behind is bad, so systems like valor, conquest and tower knowledge are incredibly good systems. it might be a massive amount to grind through if you miss out on a few weeks, but you can hunker down and get it all done on your own accord if you like. Soul cinders (the new reagent) should probably be like this as well.

At the same time people also hate caps and stuff, as evidenced by forums. I saw people complaining that there was an 800 conquest cap this season for PvP and how 800 is way too much to get each week, and then the next thread was people complaining that it's only 800 for the first week and 550 for every week after.

The TLDR here is that you can't win everybody over and there's literally no perfect system. There are however loads of people who contradict themselves constantly on these forums. WoD is the worst expansion possible if you look through post history, yet pretty much everything they champion for is to turn the game into a raid logging game.. kind of like WoD was.

Torghast is better in 9.1 whether you want to admit it or not, just by the shear fact it has 1 less big floor to complete and as the patch goes on it's going to get way faster.

[Gestopft]

so people have decided to hate it because they've decided to hate it.

Good to know.

"Decide" certainly isn't the right word there.

- - - Updated - - -

Torghast is better in 9.1 whether you want to admit it or not, just by the shear fact it has 1 less big floor to complete and as the patch goes on it's going to get way faster.

Auto-looting alone from the Box of Many Things makes it better this patch. Of course, with the prices on level 5/6 legendary bases right now...I guess there's no rush for me to do it on most of my alts yet.

[Nalam the Venom]

Torghast was fun before.

But putting a scoring system and a timer on it in this patch was a bad idea.

[Glorious Leader]

I mean they can just play other games.

So can you

[Crimson Spears]

So can you

I mean I do.. are you now boasting that you don't read the posts you quote?

[Luxeley]

Let me start out by saying I do like Torghast, I am on your side of the aisle. But, I do admit I enjoy purest/ first rendition the most. Each change: the nerf, the special events and the current changes do not improve it. I think people don't think Torghast because they're forced to do it which is childish (like a kid refusing to eat veggies) but that's the wow community. They'll argue they hate repeatable content, but the fact is they'll do the same raid over and over and over and they'll do the same dungeons over and over and over. The bottom line is: the rewards just aren't quite there, grinding soul ash just doesn't cut it for some. The fact is - Blizzard could have added a little bit of valor pts or conquest pts, a class specific appearance only xmog, random pet and mount drops. In other words Torghast could and should be something less lateral with regard to rewards.

[luciano]

... because it isn't fun.

Nothing about it is enjoyable.

The mobs are tedious. The lower system is arbitrary horseshit. It takes forever and each floor is the same as the last.

And it's mandatory to run multiple times weekly, per active alt, or forget about doing meaningful content on that toon. Fuck that.

It's a stupid addition to the game and a poor excuse for content.

- - - Updated - - -

Let me start out by saying I do like Torghast, I am on your side of the aisle. But, I do admit I enjoy purest/ first rendition the most. Each change: the nerf, the special events and the current changes do not improve it. I think people don't think Torghast because they're forced to do it which is childish (like a kid refusing to eat veggies) but that's the wow community. They'll argue they hate repeatable content, but the fact is they'll do the same raid over and over and over and they'll do the same dungeons over and over and over. The bottom line is: the rewards just aren't quite there, grinding soul ash just doesn't cut it for some. The fact is - Blizzard could have added a little bit of valor pts or conquest pts, a class specific appearance only xmog, random pet and mount drops. In other words Torghast could and should be something less lateral with regard to rewards.

I do raids over and over because the content is fun.

There's nothing enjoyable about Torghast. I'd rather be in an actual prison than spend any more time there.

[Kokolums]

Lets explain the problem with torghast this way.

Wow raids are competing with other MMO raids. In that realm, it is #1. They are the pinnacle of raid design. Period.

Torghast, in reality, is solo player content. I know you can group for it. But it is in practice a solo experience. That means it is competing with all other forms of single player video games. Its gonna lose that battle by a million light years. People arent gonna level to 60 and gear up to run some solo torghast when they can just hop in to all those incredible solo video games in a few minutes. Aint happening. D3 had the same problem with rifts.

[Milfshaked]

Players also don't like having nothing to do especially ig thats being done in order to cater to the desire of some people who simple want to raid log.

Being forced to boring non-content is not an upgrade from being able to do exactly what you want. What kind of warped mentality is this. Being able to log in and do what you like about the game is what the game should be about. If you like pet battles, nice do them. If you like raiding, nice do that. If you like PvP, nice do that. If you like world quests, nice do that. If you dislike any of those, the game should not force you to do it.

Some of us cant play 12 hours a day like you and actually value our free time. I have enough chores in my life for Blizzard to give me forced chores in their games. Let me choose to play the content I enjoy in the game.

[Kokolums]

For torghast to be successful, it would have to be available at level 1. And the full version, not just some watered down version. In fact you would probably have to eliminate leveling and start new players out at level 60 with a full set of gear. Then i think youd stand a chance of drawing people from rival single player games.

If i want single player, i could fire up bejeweled on my phone in 5 seconds or grind to 60 for weeks and gear up and enter torghast. What do you think id do? If torghast was the pinnacle of single player video games, the barriers to entry might work. But it aint.