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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Aydinx2 View Post
    These times are so off it's almost comedic. Not to mention you're ignoring travel times which, while pretty short, adds up.
    Nope, they are not off. If it takes you longer, you don't play efficiently - those are exactly the times it takes me with my 3 characters that unlocked korthia. Care to tell times you deem to be true?
    Traveling doesn't take that much time if you don't slog around. Plus, I don't see traveltime as wasted time while watching videos, or doing other RL stuff while traveling, which is why this is a non-issue for me personally.
    Last edited by Bloodyleech; 2021-07-10 at 07:07 PM.

  2. #202
    There are no difficulty levels. Obviously layers are not difficulty levels, since most people are expected to just finish the highest layer.
    The only difficulty is just numbers - the mobs and even bosses barely have any mechanics. Almost every fight is just tank and spank, with a handful of mobs having a single skill you have to move away from.
    The scoring system makes the whole thing even less fun, since in order to have a lot of points, you have to meticulously clear everything and do blatantly unfun things such as keeping track of powers to make sure you don't ever pick a duplicate or just skipping all epic powers. The part about meticulously clearing everything is especially sad when playing a rogue, since before that, you could at least actually feel like you're sneaking around and picking your fights.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Noctiphobia View Post
    There are no difficulty levels. Obviously layers are not difficulty levels, since most people are expected to just finish the highest layer.
    The only difficulty is just numbers - the mobs and even bosses barely have any mechanics. Almost every fight is just tank and spank, with a handful of mobs having a single skill you have to move away from.
    The scoring system makes the whole thing even less fun, since in order to have a lot of points, you have to meticulously clear everything and do blatantly unfun things such as keeping track of powers to make sure you don't ever pick a duplicate or just skipping all epic powers. The part about meticulously clearing everything is especially sad when playing a rogue, since before that, you could at least actually feel like you're sneaking around and picking your fights.
    I see where you are coming from.
    I for myself have no problems with the scoring in there though - I pick epics whenever I like and I pick duplicates, I simply run through this place while clearing everything fast and end up with 220+ (highest 257, while still taking dupes/epics) points.

  4. #204
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    for some people its simple the fact that torghast means they can't simple just log for raid. Its incredible dumb I know but thats what it is
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  5. #205
    1. It is boring.

    2. It is mandatory.

    3. You have to repeat it weekly/daily or similar

    If a content only has 2 of these, while not good, you can deal with it. If a content has all 3, it is dogshit.

  6. #206
    It's a mandatory check-list. Players don't like that. When you log into retail the first thing is "what do I HAVE to do". If you were to log into Classic or BC the first thing is "what do I WANT to do". Huge difference.

  7. #207
    As a hunter at the beginning of the xpac torghast sucks with no fun anima powers. Now I play my shamman and a whole lot better and more fun game breaking anima powers maybe thats why

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by GMZohar1 View Post
    It's a mandatory check-list. Players don't like that. When you log into retail the first thing is "what do I HAVE to do". If you were to log into Classic or BC the first thing is "what do I WANT to do". Huge difference.
    Yeah that. Tuesdays are known as “chore days”.

  9. #209
    People sure are strange. Torghast is literally, factually the least repetitive PvE content ever to exist in the game, but people are whining about it being repetitive? The same people that spam the same dungeons and raids week after week, month after month? Not to mention whining about it being a mandatory chore, when basically every other aspect of an MMO is no different? That being said, Torghast definitely does have some issues. This patch made it worse in every way with the scoring crap, and the class balance there is atrocious. If I get a certain anima power, my demon hunter can use nothing but immolation aura, and still beat it faster and easier than my rogue.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodyleech View Post
    I see where you are coming from.
    I for myself have no problems with the scoring in there though - I pick epics whenever I like and I pick duplicates, I simply run through this place while clearing everything fast and end up with 220+ (highest 257, while still taking dupes/epics) points.
    I was doing it with my friend who plays healer and hates everything else, so the mobs were scaled up (there's some increased scaling for doing it with a healer IIRC), so everything had tons of health, so we had to make up for that.

  11. #211
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMZohar1 View Post
    It's a mandatory check-list. Players don't like that. When you log into retail the first thing is "what do I HAVE to do". If you were to log into Classic or BC the first thing is "what do I WANT to do". Huge difference.
    Players also don't like having nothing to do especially ig thats being done in order to cater to the desire of some people who simple want to raid log.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  12. #212
    *some people

    I like it. Several people like it. It's something challenging, that doesn't require reliance on anyone else (though you can run in a party).
    Sometimes things don't work out, but that's life and it makes things all the better when you overcome whatever had tripped you.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Players also don't like having nothing to do especially ig thats being done in order to cater to the desire of some people who simple want to raid log.
    I mean they can just play other games. I can never really understand people who only enjoy a single video game or even hobby for that matter. I don't ask for all of wow to be engaging for me as that is incredibly selfish ( most players wouldn't survive world trash mobs if they posed a challenge to me a mythic CE raider before mythic ce existed).

    Why is it wrong that some players would rather only play the bits of the game they enjoy and be free to go do something else in the in between? I find it a odd paradox that more lfr players run out of things to do then CE players.

  14. #214
    Elemental Lord Kathranis's Avatar
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    If you run Torghast with a full party is it really that different from doing a couple Mythic Dungeon runs?

    Only thing I could say is that they could spice it up by adding more encounter variety. But I don't see how it's any more repetitive than doing dungeons or raid logging.

  15. #215
    I dislike it. Its boring, is repetitive. It doesnt reward anything important to keep doing it over and over again. And also, time consuming.

    If i'm going to do something that provide any challenge i would be trying Dungeons or Raids.

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    Largely because it's mandatory. Of course people can have legitimate reasons why they might like/dislike something, but nothing kills fun like being told you have to do it (you know...if you want any legendaries...)
    so people have decided to hate it because they've decided to hate it.

    Good to know.

  17. #217
    Choreghast is just that, a relatively long chore for minimal gain. It also has the same issue that I have with M+ where you do the same thing over and over but with more debuffs to artificially increase difficulty. In the end it's still the same instance with the same mobs that will just take longer and is more frustrating.

    At least with M+ there's some character power to be gained in the form of loot and the vault. With Choreghast you get... a currency that you don't need anymore after a few runs. Even this 9.1 version is not much better except that it's 1 floor less. I'm not even going to do the extra levels because it's just too time consuming for some minor cosmetics.

    Another part that sucks is the fact that eventually you finish the run and go back out, losing everything that was fun in the process and you're faced with the realization that you're back to your normal balanced-around-how-much-time-blizzard-wants-you-to-spend-on-killing-a-mob class.

  18. #218
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    I don't know, the only thing I don't understand is the people who hate Torghast more since the patch, which makes little sense to me. It takes less time to do, and by that logic making something that you're "forced" to do take less time should logically just be better than it was before.

    For a mandatory system it's pretty tame, but I think some people take it to absolute extremes. Unless you're the type of player that just wants everything, to which you're just going to play a lot anyway? I got a single legendary item on my alts for the role they perform in a few weeks, and then I stopped doing Torghast on them. I continued to do it on my main because he performs multiple roles, and then I stopped doing Torghast. Not because I hate it, but because I don't "really" need to do it.

    9.1 sort of makes this even less of a necessity. You can just do it on your fastest character and transfer it to alternate characters if you want, and getting baseline T3 (out of now T5 legendary) is insanely cheap and really quick to get. Nearly all of the power of legendary items come from the effect attached to the item itself, and not really the iLvL. Are you missing out on some throughput? Yeah, but it's pretty miniscule by comparison and won't remotely break your character. The time investment is pretty small.

    Not to defend Blizzard, but in some ways they can't win. I'm of the opinion that gating certain things or making you feel like you have fallen behind is bad, so systems like valor, conquest and tower knowledge are incredibly good systems. it might be a massive amount to grind through if you miss out on a few weeks, but you can hunker down and get it all done on your own accord if you like. Soul cinders (the new reagent) should probably be like this as well.

    At the same time people also hate caps and stuff, as evidenced by forums. I saw people complaining that there was an 800 conquest cap this season for PvP and how 800 is way too much to get each week, and then the next thread was people complaining that it's only 800 for the first week and 550 for every week after.

    The TLDR here is that you can't win everybody over and there's literally no perfect system. There are however loads of people who contradict themselves constantly on these forums. WoD is the worst expansion possible if you look through post history, yet pretty much everything they champion for is to turn the game into a raid logging game.. kind of like WoD was.

    Torghast is better in 9.1 whether you want to admit it or not, just by the shear fact it has 1 less big floor to complete and as the patch goes on it's going to get way faster.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaetha View Post
    so people have decided to hate it because they've decided to hate it.

    Good to know.
    "Decide" certainly isn't the right word there.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Torghast is better in 9.1 whether you want to admit it or not, just by the shear fact it has 1 less big floor to complete and as the patch goes on it's going to get way faster.
    Auto-looting alone from the Box of Many Things makes it better this patch. Of course, with the prices on level 5/6 legendary bases right now...I guess there's no rush for me to do it on most of my alts yet.
    "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
    -Louis Brandeis

  20. #220
    Pandaren Monk Nalam the Venom's Avatar
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    Torghast was fun before.

    But putting a scoring system and a timer on it in this patch was a bad idea.

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