Page 15 of 15 FirstFirst ...
5
13
14
15
  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrea View Post
    I don't mind Torghast - it's okay, feels like it could be better.

    But what really gets me is OP's stubborn insistence that people justify why they do not like something, and then when they do explain it, he rejects their explanations.

    Asking people to prove a negative (like "Prove why Torghast isn't fun") is ridiculous to begin with, but then rejecting any explanation that is given as though people not only have to explain their dislike, but have it approved is just... It's so on-brand for this community.
    People can not like Torghast for any reason they see fit. I just wanted to know THOSE reasons. Saying "It isn't fun" is...not an objective reason. If I can make up a list on WHY I find Torghast fun, I assume people can make a list as to WHY they don't have fun. Many posters came up with legit reasons, such as:

    1) Anima powers aren't good enough
    2) They don't like the aesthetic of the place
    3) They don't like the music of the place
    4) They don't like the bosses have simple, straightforward mechanics
    5) They don't like the amount of trash in the place

    etc and so forth. THAT is what I wanted to promote with this thread, a discussion. Simply saying "I don't find it fun" adds absolutely nothing to the discussion. You're severely mistaken if you think if I want to force people to like Torghast - I don't give a shit if they like it or not, I wanted to know WHY they don't like it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by GMZohar1 View Post
    It's a mandatory check-list. Players don't like that. When you log into retail the first thing is "what do I HAVE to do". If you were to log into Classic or BC the first thing is "what do I WANT to do". Huge difference.
    I'm sorry, but this is simply un-true.

    When you log into WoW TBC Classic, the FIRST thing you gotta do, is skip questing in every single area and dungeon grind. Why? 2 reasons. 1) Rep from dungeons only gets you to Honoured/Revered, so you keep the quests for when the rep they give ACTUALLY matters and 2) you wanna complete all quests at max level so you can get the 5k gold needed for epic flying.

    2nd thing you HAVE to do? Start doing your Attunement quests. You ain't getting into Karazhan by simply showing up.

    3rd thing you have to do? Start farming the same heroics, every day, for your pre-raid BIS. If you don't want to be a burden to your raid, that is. Noone wants Jim the Mage to show up to a KZ run with questing greens (now I know some questing greens are OP, like Manimal's Cinch for Feral Tanks, but that's an exception, not the rule).

    4th thing you gotta do. Grind Aldor/Scryer rep for your shoulder enchant.

    Off the top of my head that is four distinct things you HAVE to do if you ever dream of raiding in a serious guild in TBC Classic.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Counter question - why is anyone defending content that others simply say they don't enjoy or don't like? What is the positive outcome here by telling people who say "I don't like it" they are wrong? I don't personally think Rick and Morty has been funny since S2 - some random on the internet telling me im wrong and multiple reasons it is funny wont suddenly make me laugh at the next episode.
    My dude, stop trying to think I'm trying to change people's minds. I'm not. I'm just seeing Torghast hate everywhere, and wanted to know WHY. It is as simple as that, nothing less, nothing more. Elaborating the "It's no fun" argument like other posters have was the whole damn reason I made this thread. You're reading WAY too deeply between the lines. I don't care IF people like/dislike Torghast. I just wanted to know WHY. And I can safely say, because of other posters who took the time to express their thoughts and feelings, unlike you, I have finally understood the WHY.

  2. #282
    I really enjoyed it in the beginning. I just don't like having to repeat it as often as you have to. And it feels the same all too often. More powers. Randomize enemies/more enemies. New maps. I feel like it can be improved for sure and if it was not Blizzard I'd have more hope. Also it's way too easy and no mob or boss is as punishing as it should be. I'm beating floor 10s with 190 i-lvl. I'd enjoy if you could get more powers that changed how your spells work so it doesn't feel like the same thing over and over and you don't have just 1 build.

  3. #283
    Boring as fuck, forced to do, unbalanced mess.
    Ofc OP is a tank and enjoys the turd.

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by Subzu View Post
    Boring as fuck, forced to do, unbalanced mess.
    Ofc OP is a tank and enjoys the turd.
    But that's the thing man. I only play Bear druid. I don't have any other chars. I had no IDEA Anima Powers were so bad for some DPS specs, nor did I know DPSers had such a hard time in Torghast. How can I? I don't play DPS. That is the point of a FORUM. To DISCUSS. And this is what we are doing. Discussing. This was the WHOLE REASON of making this thread. I didn't have a measure of comparison, because I only play Tank, so I came here to find out what others are thinking.

    Insulting me by saying "OFC he's a tank and enjoys the shit" says quite a bit about you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by derekmmorgan94 View Post
    I really enjoyed it in the beginning. I just don't like having to repeat it as often as you have to. And it feels the same all too often. More powers. Randomize enemies/more enemies. New maps. I feel like it can be improved for sure and if it was not Blizzard I'd have more hope. Also it's way too easy and no mob or boss is as punishing as it should be. I'm beating floor 10s with 190 i-lvl. I'd enjoy if you could get more powers that changed how your spells work so it doesn't feel like the same thing over and over and you don't have just 1 build.
    According to other posters who were in the Shadowlands Alpha and Beta, Torghast was WAY harder when it was first implemented. I think 1 poster mentioned a drop of 70% in terms of difficulty? Making something 70% easier was never a good solution for anything.

  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Oh I dont give a shkt what you do or don't do. As far as I'm concerned they could make raiding entirely isolated from the rest of the game and i wouldnt care. What bothers is me is the expectation that the rest of the game is constantly balanced around raiding and more specifically the desire to simple raid log. And yes I didn't engage with a single thing you said because its garbage..
    Ah, the ever typical elitist jerk that just hates casual players, I am just going to assume that you didnt engage with a single argument because you just cant stand people not playing the game in the way you want and spending 12 hours a day forcing themselves through chores.

    Some of us just want to be able to log in for a short time and play a game and have fun.

  6. #286
    The break the game power seems to vary wildly class to class and run to run. My WW monk is consistently nigh unstoppable while my outlaw rogue in the same gear is absolutely pathetic by comparison. Glad for the semi boa soul ash I suppose.

    Mostly it's good in moderation but I hesitate at the thought of running it on a bunch of alts, it gets old. Same reason I preferred the eye of the jailer mechanic over not having it anymore as a cap on time spent on one type of content.
    Quote Originally Posted by DatToffer View Post
    Sylvanas will just give her own head to Tyrande.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    The break the game power seems to vary wildly class to class and run to run. My WW monk is consistently nigh unstoppable while my outlaw rogue in the same gear is absolutely pathetic by comparison. Glad for the semi boa soul ash I suppose.

    Mostly it's good in moderation but I hesitate at the thought of running it on a bunch of alts, it gets old. Same reason I preferred the eye of the jailer mechanic over not having it anymore as a cap on time spent on one type of content.
    The Monk-Rogue comparison is great! As someone who only plays 1 char and has no alts, I wouldn't imagine a leather-wearing DPSer that uses Energy as a resource would give such a vastly different experience in Torghast than another leather-wearing DPSer who uses Energy (and Chi) as a resource. Because I don't play those 2 classes.

  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalinos View Post
    My dude, stop trying to think I'm trying to change people's minds. I'm not. I'm just seeing Torghast hate everywhere, and wanted to know WHY. It is as simple as that, nothing less, nothing more. Elaborating the "It's no fun" argument like other posters have was the whole damn reason I made this thread. You're reading WAY too deeply between the lines. I don't care IF people like/dislike Torghast. I just wanted to know WHY. And I can safely say, because of other posters who took the time to express their thoughts and feelings, unlike you, I have finally understood the WHY.
    I probably posted earlier, or at least in SOME Torghast thread on here somewhere... but anyway...

    It's tied too intrinsically to the rest of the game. As is the Maw. The Maw is a different story, but as for Torghast...

    > Borrowed Power - you have some fun ability changes within there, but they're gone the minute you leave. The next time you enter you may see the same power early on or late, or never. The randomness is something one can tolerate but it's a heck of a thing to grant a player power and then strip it from them. You also accumulate a currency in there that also literally vanishes out of your pocket when you leave.

    > Mandatory - to progress the story you have to go in here. Imagine if they expanded this to any other side activity in the game. To complete the story you have to do X profession, to complete the story you have to do M+. Making it mandatory for legendaries is less painful, at least a player can opt out of getting a leggo more easily than, say, just not playing through the story.

    > Visuals - it's dull and it will probably never be truly interesting because of the technology limitation (random generation of levels).

    > Repetitive - like with the dull visuals it can only get so interesting in there. This wouldn't be a problem if it was kept as a side activity that someone can grind if they like this sort of thing, but the game keeps throwing you into this place.

    Torghast seems like one of those big brain ideas that has just gone too far, it got its claws into most of the rest of the game. It would have been fine as an activity players can go into or they can skip. Keeping it as optional would let them tie more unique rewards to the place, to really differentiate people who put in the time and energy there.

    Instead someone at Blizz said "we've put a lot of work into Torghast and we can't let that go to waste, let's tie it into everything, they'll love it!"

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by Doombringer View Post
    I probably posted earlier, or at least in SOME Torghast thread on here somewhere... but anyway...

    It's tied too intrinsically to the rest of the game. As is the Maw. The Maw is a different story, but as for Torghast...

    > Borrowed Power - you have some fun ability changes within there, but they're gone the minute you leave. The next time you enter you may see the same power early on or late, or never. The randomness is something one can tolerate but it's a heck of a thing to grant a player power and then strip it from them. You also accumulate a currency in there that also literally vanishes out of your pocket when you leave.

    > Mandatory - to progress the story you have to go in here. Imagine if they expanded this to any other side activity in the game. To complete the story you have to do X profession, to complete the story you have to do M+. Making it mandatory for legendaries is less painful, at least a player can opt out of getting a leggo more easily than, say, just not playing through the story.

    > Visuals - it's dull and it will probably never be truly interesting because of the technology limitation (random generation of levels).

    > Repetitive - like with the dull visuals it can only get so interesting in there. This wouldn't be a problem if it was kept as a side activity that someone can grind if they like this sort of thing, but the game keeps throwing you into this place.

    Torghast seems like one of those big brain ideas that has just gone too far, it got its claws into most of the rest of the game. It would have been fine as an activity players can go into or they can skip. Keeping it as optional would let them tie more unique rewards to the place, to really differentiate people who put in the time and energy there.

    Instead someone at Blizz said "we've put a lot of work into Torghast and we can't let that go to waste, let's tie it into everything, they'll love it!"
    Ima answer each point separately.

    1) Borrowed Power - you mean JUST LIKE the Heart of Azeroth, Legion artifact weapons, and Tier sets before them? They were also borrowed power that disappeared as soon as you took em off. I didn't keep my Tier 2 set bonus that gave +3 seconds on Rejuv, I didn't keep my T4 set bonus that gave me +1,400 armour in Bear form and +60 strength in Cat form, I didn't keep ANY tier set bonuses after taking them off. Hell, for our Artifacts we had to channel their power away ourselves.

    2) Mandatory - a bunch of things in this game are "mandatory" (as mandatory as something can be in a game that you can simply log off from, shut down your PC and go to the pub for a beer), such as running high M+ keys/Mythic raids if you want the best gear, getting the correct spec/conduits/talents/legendaries if you want to be competitive in PVP and so on and so forth.

    3) Visuals - It's Torghast, the Tower of the Damned. It's not supposed to be the Emerald Dream with all its lush colours and bright sceneries.

    4) Repetitive - I farmed Icecrown Citadel for 13 long, excruciating months during WOTLK. There have been other end-of-expansion raids that lasted just as long (nearly). How is raiding on a schedule not "repetitive"?

    Now don't get me wrong. I'm just playing devil's advocate here. These are all valid reasons for not liking Torghast. I'm not here to change your mind. I repeat. I am not here to force you to like Torghast, just trying to find out why you DON'T like it.

    All these reasons could be applied to every single activity in the game though.
    Last edited by Dalinos; 2021-07-13 at 02:57 AM.

  10. #290
    Not enough randomness, after a few resets it is all the same, I wouldn't play a roguelike that had almost 0 randomness, it's boring. The rewards were lackluster, no optional cosmetics that could have been farmed, no one in my group of 15 or so friends liked it at all, especially after a month.

    I think the biggest issue for me is that as soon as you leave, you feel like you have wasted your time, the currency is not enough, in D3 you get exp, gold, items drop and many of them. In wow you get.......soul ash of which most are done with in a few resets.

    The question I always ask is, if Torghast didn't give soul ash, would most of us go there? The answer is a resounding no which means blizzard created something that is unfun at it's core and something it's playerbase did not want. (So add highly unrewarding)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •