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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Nalam the Venom View Post

    Isen't that like the main draw of MMORPG games?

    To grind things to get better things?

    Also if doing the same thing over and over is not fun.. then how can something like Diablo or progressing a raid boss be "Fun" ?

    I'm so confused by this logic.
    Wiping to a raid boss 500 times before you finally beat it, and feel a rush of satisfaction (It's a challenge) is different than beating an easy raid boss 500 times. Nothing about Torghast is challenging. It's a grind just to be a grind.

  2. #42
    Elemental Lord Lahis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    It is a forced slog that takes way too much time to grind weekly.

  3. #43
    I'd say because of four big reasons:

    1. It's a mandatory grind TWICE a week. People would be way happier with Torghast if it was just a one time weekly thing.

    2. It feels too repetitive. Going through 5 floors of the same rooms is boring. At least in Visions you went from one city district to the other and had some change there. Especially when you were still progressing through and only just learning to deal with the harder zones. In Torghast you just go through floor 1 of a dull looking zone into floor 2 of the same dull looking zone with a different map layout. Personally, I would like Torghast way more if they threw it all into a randomizer, make you do it once per week but every floor is completely random.

    3. The mobs inside aren't really interesting and the boss is just a bigger trash mob. You get all those sick powers and are fighting target dummies.

    4. Anima powers are not balanced at all. Some classes have some cool anima powers and get to just unleash and go wild. Meanwhile other classes have super clunky and awkward anima powers that don't really feel all that powerful. Or they are powerful but only against trash groups and useless in a single target boss fight. And no matter if you are playing a class with cool anima powers or one with boring anima powers, one thing all classes have in common: There isn't any build variety. Even a cool build will get boring if you play it twice a week for half a year while fighting target dummies.

  4. #44
    Torghast seems to be dervied from the Forge of Souls, which I thought was a really interesting instance (that sadly didn't make it into Timewalking). But somehow the dated Forge of Souls looks way more interesting than these drab Torghast environments.

    HOWEVER. I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Procedural content is the future of MMO's and Blizzard should keep developing the system for future expansions, just use a more interesting setting than some drab dungeon.
    Last edited by Ivarr; 2021-07-07 at 10:13 AM.

  5. #45
    It is not tuned very well overall. Besides the class issues, its difficulty jumps pointlessly wide between floors, which seems very much depending on the class and skilltree you are using and thats already the usual issue with Blizzard not having a clue about their own balance issues, but whatever. I liked Torghast but zoned out when certain runs took several hours, leaving me empty handed when i died somewhere close to the finish line. I dont got that much time to waste for nothing. I cared giving a crap about it and the Legendary right then and there.
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  6. #46
    Field Marshal Phyrexia-KulTiras's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Weert, The Netherlands
    For me its not really challenging and it takes way to long.
    You can rush it, but then its even more boring. Then they remind me to much of island expeditions.

    Also eventhough they claim that no run is the same due to some random generator(?), it feels very much the same each run. Some levels i'm 100% sure they dont change.

    As soon as i have my legos, i'm never going in there (Untill next patch where we prolly have to grind again).

  7. #47
    Dreadlord Smallfruitbat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Khadgars' Tower
    I loved it the first couple of times through, it was fun and exciting to try to break the game. Then after the third character it started getting old. If it wasn't tied to player power, I'd hop in there every now and then for a break and a bit of a giggle. The fact that it needs to be done to upgrade legendaries just makes it a chore.

  8. #48
    Torghstt is fine. Ngl I did kinda get bored of it, but only after many months which is fine and expected.

  9. #49
    It's mandatory and the length of time spent there does not equate to the rewards given. The thing it was based on the mage tower was challenging, optional, short and compensated you accordingly. It's the perfect example of Blizzard taking a good thing and ruining it.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Kauko View Post
    Personally? BORING! I have to force my self to even enter it, let alone play it... What is even the point of it? Just some random content... As one forum member said once, they should really not hire designers that are obsessed with this kind of Diablo like grindy, repetitive, BORING content.

    And I wont even start to complain about the design. As much as Isles were lazy content, at least we had different locations. Torghast is one and the same lazy graphic design one after another...
    It has the same point as any other content... to entertain and, more times than not, progress your character.

  11. #51
    I mean I don't hate it. I hated Visions. Torghast I simply do not enjoy much and it feels like tons of wasted potential, mainly because of missing difficulty and rewards.

  12. #52
    It takes too much time, doesnt give anything of worth and its just a obstacle course between you and legendarys. The only purpouse is waste your time while presenting no shred of fun, atleast for me. I did it for the mount and legendary and when I finished I hoped I never had to go back there again... Now I dont have to go there at all because I unsubbed a couple months ago should had made this decision earlier :|

  13. #53
    Because it is both loosely mandatory (in that you generally always want/need the currency) and too repetitive to enjoy doing multiple times a week per character. I have enjoyed Torghast when progressing through the levels at increasing difficulty, particular before the nerfs, because it was challenging and new. But once it loses that there's nothing making me want to do it.

    I don't personally like the new points system either; before I could just do it as I wanted and progress. But one of the two runs I did despite having no deaths I only got 3 crystals because I guess not enough room % etc and this empowerement BS. I'd rather just be able to finish it as I deem works for me. So I then had to do it again. I do like some of the changes like a floor removal though and the talent points.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalinos View Post
    Ok....but why? What makes it not fun? This is the question that I'm trying to get an answer for.
    He did give you an answer. It's too repetitive. It's fun maybe like once, then it's all downhill from there.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalinos View Post
    Problem with this is that gut reactions don't promote discussion and argumentation. Which is what a forum is used for. Refer to my fish example above.
    And yet, that doesn't justify dismissing gut reactions. That something is repulsive on a visceral level is data that should not be ignored or suppressed, even if the customer having the reaction can't explain it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by zorkuus View Post
    He did give you an answer. It's too repetitive. It's fun maybe like once, then it's all downhill from there.
    His passive aggressive approach to suppressing dissent is to insist on explanation and then not accept explanations.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
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  16. #56
    Bloodsail Admiral
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    i disagree, i enjoy boomkin druid but i hate doing Torghast with it, and I enjoy doing Torghast on rogue assassin/warlock demo/paladin (all specs)
    I don't like Torghast on my Pally. The powers don't really do much that's interesting, just make the combat rotation feel faster and more complete. It's not bad, but it's not very exciting. For my Shaman, OTOH, it makes for an amazing transformation, and there are several different 'builds' you can hope for.

  17. #57
    Because jumping onto bandwagons instead of giving explanations or even better, thinking for yourself, is so coool. Just look at 2nd reply. SOOO much imput has been given why its bad, wow!
    Last edited by Nnyco; 2021-07-07 at 11:42 AM.

  18. #58
    1. its mandatory instead of for fun/cosmetics
    2. due to it being mandatory, you are expected to complete it rather than, like in any good roguelike, try many many times before you even get a chance of completing it.
    3. too few environments which are also bland af
    4. not even close to enough interesting powers
    5. bosses are a joke that only right click hard due to weird scaling.
    6. awful balance between classes(wouldnt be as much of an issue if it actually took longer/ wasn't mandatory)

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalinos View Post
    Care to reply with arguments, such as the ones I laid out above? I clearly stated why and how I find Torghast to be a fun activity. It would be cool if you could do the same, so we can get a discussion going. That is what a forum is used for, since the times of the Ancient Romans (where the word comes from actually) when they thought up the concept.
    Except you didn't really give arguments for why it's fun. You explained what you experienced and the fact that you had fun doing that, but those things aren't why it was fun.

    And even then, fun is subjective. Your "breaking the game" by having high stats could just as easily be unfun to someone else. Hence "because it isn't fun" is a full argument for not doing it, because any argument for why it isn't fun can just as easily by an argument for why it is fun to someone else.

    Why do I dislike it? It's repetitive and feels like a slog because the powers don't actually make me powerful unless I get a specific set of powers and that rarely happens. And the worst part is that it isn't optional because you need it for the legendary.
    Last edited by Aydinx2; 2021-07-07 at 11:48 AM.

  20. #60
    5 layers of nothing + boss isn't fun.

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