Why do people hate Torghast so much?

[Soikona]

Can we stop this nostalgia driven rose tinted glasses argument with the Mage Tower?

The majority of the mage tower challenges were bullshit.
The tank challenge was bullshit.
The healer challenge was a chore.

It wasn't JUST time-gated (it wasn't up 100%) you also needed to have a currency to do attempts. You ran out? Too bad.
Imagine Blizz pulling this both with Torghast.

The only reason, literally the only reason you think the Mage Tower was better than Torghast is because it was done first.
Oh, and for vanity leggo weapon skins. Which did literally nothing for your gameplay.

Yku literally just listed everything that was great about Mage tower. The big one though, optional.

[Kokolums]

Can we stop this nostalgia driven rose tinted glasses argument with the Mage Tower?

The majority of the mage tower challenges were bullshit.
The tank challenge was bullshit.
The healer challenge was a chore.

It wasn't JUST time-gated (it wasn't up 100%) you also needed to have a currency to do attempts. You ran out? Too bad.
Imagine Blizz pulling this both with Torghast.

The only reason, literally the only reason you think the Mage Tower was better than Torghast is because it was done first.
Oh, and for vanity leggo weapon skins. Which did literally nothing for your gameplay.

You left out the entire reason to do Mage Tower.

Many of the mogs were absolutely baller. I mean best mog for item slot in game.

[Garymorilix]

Yku literally just listed everything that was great about Mage tower. The big one though, optional.

Everything that was great? The fact that most of it was bullshit was great?

Let's not even mention how piss-easy it was just one tier later. Literally in Argus catch-up gear you could sleep thru them.
So it wasn't even a "challenge" for the majority of its existence.

You left out the entire reason to do Mage Tower.

Many of the mogs were absolutely baller. I mean best mog for item slot in game.

Exactly, the only reason to do the mage tower was literally 1 skin per spec.
Most of them weren't special.
Only the tank druid one is unique enough that I see in-game worn by players.

[Rootsbum]

Personally, I was hoping for more layouts; Like a personal type of hell kinda thing.
A lush green floor, a dark droopy ardenweld-ish room, a mecha-room etc.
Torghast gets old pretty fast.
Also, some kind of rewards outside of soul ash would be lovely. Even gold

But other than that; I kinda enjoy it

[aceperson]

i mostly hate torghast because i didn't get to play the good version that was tested in alpha/most of beta. the 9.0 iteration wasn't that bad but it wasn't good either. if torghast was a stand alone title, it would flop. there aren't enough powers, it isn't long enough to get the op power fantasy, and other issues. there are good reasons as to why i play games like rogue legacy and enjoy it.

though i also hate torghast because they made it essentially mandatory by adding in the lego crafting mat. yes, i could skip out on doing torghast but then i don't get to experience another system of the game. so that really isn't an argument. if i skip torghast, i'm skipping one system and one "game mode".

[kaminaris]

Can we stop this nostalgia driven rose tinted glasses argument with the Mage Tower?

The majority of the mage tower challenges were bullshit.
The tank challenge was bullshit.
The healer challenge was a chore.

It wasn't JUST time-gated (it wasn't up 100%) you also needed to have a currency to do attempts. You ran out? Too bad.
Imagine Blizz pulling this both with Torghast.

The only reason, literally the only reason you think the Mage Tower was better than Torghast is because it was done first.
Oh, and for vanity leggo weapon skins. Which did literally nothing for your gameplay.

I always find it funny when I see arguments like this, as someone who did 36 mage towers tank ones were ez, healers however i did have a problems.

Please do not talk about rose tinted glasses as you clearly didn't do much of them.
I never ran out of attempts (like it was not even funny how easy it was to get attempts) and I did them in span of 11 days (with exclusion of bm, mm, destro, affli and ele)
That means I had to do some gear farming on my god forsaken alts that barely step foot outside of Garrison v2.
So yes if you vastly overgeared them all it might be too easy.

I still have old spreadsheet:



Still, mage tower was several leagues ahead of this abomination of roguelike torghast boring crap.

[Soikona]

Everything that was great? The fact that most of it was bullshit was great?

Let's not even mention how piss-easy it was just one tier later. Literally in Argus catch-up gear you could sleep thru them.
So it wasn't even a "challenge" for the majority of its existence.



Exactly, the only reason to do the mage tower was literally 1 skin per spec.
Most of them weren't special.
Only the tank druid one is unique enough that I see in-game worn by players.

I did it when it first came out, and when it was super easy with gear. Both times were rewarding for amazing transmog. Purely optional. Can’t say the same for torghast as a mythic raider.

Just because you don’t like the transmog doesn’t mean it wasn’t important for others. I love my shattered ashbringer, I love my flail, do you know what I don’t love? Having to do something so easy that is just kill trash, then one harder trash mob, every week, so I can compete in mythic raids. Didn’t have that problem with Mage tower.
But you knew this, you just want to use Mage tower as a scapegoat.

[dayne87]

I don't hate Torghast, but I won't do it as often as I did it before. Early in the expansion I loved it and was running it on all my alts pretty much all the time. But part of that was driven by earning a currency to build legendaries with.

Then I went into Twisting Corridors, driven by the desire to get the mount that could be ridden in the Maw. I geared up as many characters as I could in preparation and it still took 4 characters to beat layer 8. I did like 2-3 layers with my Main, then 1 layer with one character 1, with another and then like 2-3 with a fourth character. I ended up beating layer 8 due to a lucky draw of powers on my Frost DK, as he seemed to scale better with powers than my BM hunter, Veng DH or Demo Warlock.

So I don't hate it, but I'm toning down my running of TG to just my main right now. I might add in an alt down the road, but I don't want to burn out like I did back in February/March and stop playing altogether. I'd rather it just be a slow and steady activity I can log into a few times a week and do my dailies/weeklies, run TG, etc. and then be done, rather than it feeling like a second job when I was trying to keep all my alts up-to-date.

Like I couldn't stomach trying to run TG on 4+ alts every week multiple times just to cap out Tower Knowledge. I might end up doing it on 2 characters (my main Horde and main Alliance toon) but I honestly don't want to do it on more than that.

[Zyrinx]

Twisted corridors was fun. I did it. It was imperfect and very frustrating at times but overall it was good content.

6 floor Torghast was a weekly chore.

Now it’s a chore with a scoring system that is just, bluntly, a terrible idea, encouraging you to play counterintuitively to get more points. It’s no longer about winning, it’s about style points.

Counterintuitive play was the problem with Islands 1.0, it seems the lesson was not learned.

[GR8GODZILLAGOD]

Several reasons.

Not enough variety in the enemies and environment: grey hallways everywhere and the same enemies that all look alike with no interesting interactions over and over.

Lack of power variety and synergy: many of the powers are pretty damn boring (these set of spells do more damage) and there's only 1 or 2 combinations that a class can get. This leads to a lack of variety in the runs. The focus on class spells as a whole and not spec-specific spells hurts the power variety A LOT.

Lame bosses: The bosses are pushovers with very minimal mechanics: don't stand in the swirly and interrupt. Yawn

The walking: The torghast levels are big and there's just so much slow traversal. It's especially painful since I mained a DK.

Lack of rewards: You farm to get the 1 or 2 legendaries you need and that's basically it. There isn't much else. They recently added some cosmetic shoulders which is nice, but they're pretty samey. No gear either or anima. The twisting corridors rewards a fucking joke, especially with only every other floor giving you something.

The recent additions to Torghast with the timers and what not don't address the core issue it had, all of the above. What does it really add? It doesn't really change how you go through it all that much. They should have put the resources into addressing more of the above and not waste their time with this pointless scoring system.

[kranur]

Another note is outside of mythic players wow players are allergic to failure. Any obstacle they can't immediately crush solo is seen as a unmovable object blocking them from their goals.

Giving this playerbase a "roguelite" experience was moronic.

Eh .. torghast isn't difficult to begin with. The problem is that it's boring and rng.

And now with a scoring system based in how lucky you are is just retarded.

Rewards are also non-existant.

Bottom line .. why would I replay a random piece of garbage after getting the mandatory currency from it.

[Skylarking]

First and foremost, i dont find it fun. If it ain't fun, and has a player power reward attached to it im just gonna call it a chore and do it for the sake of the player power. Due to it being a chore now, it becomes even more annoying to do because i cant blitz through it, so it becomes an annoying chore now. I'm not a fan of roguelikes/lites so i feel like i won't ever enjoy doing it no matter what. I do not like anything about the place but it has soul ash a necessary resource that i need...

[LordVargK]

Torghast is Diablo 3 rifts. Just like D3 rifts, there seems to be an extremely tiny group of people that love it to death. Everyone else hates it with a passion. I have to admit there were probably more D3 Twitch streamers dedicated to rift running than there are WoW players who are dedicated to Torghast running. So it seems to be even worse. Rifts single-handedly drove me from D3 they were so bad. I loathe Torghast in the same way. It kills my interest in playing WoW.

Not to derail the discussion here, but I think D3 rifts are enjoyed by all D3 players. It's really the only thing to do in the game

[kail]

Was interesting at first when learning the powers and their fun combos. Then it was just the same thing in repeat every week for the sole purpose of getting the ash. Blizzard tried to add some roguelike in their game but really missed the mark of what makes that genre appealing. If that system had its own progression, offering something else outside of ash, was actually challenging and easy to fail on I would have found it far more appealing.

This is from my perspective of pre 9.1 patch.

[doodle90]

They could have made it great, have jumping puzzles in it, have different themes, but instead they chose for every floor to look identical.

[kail]

Can we stop this nostalgia driven rose tinted glasses argument with the Mage Tower?

The majority of the mage tower challenges were bullshit.
The tank challenge was bullshit.
The healer challenge was a chore.

It wasn't JUST time-gated (it wasn't up 100%) you also needed to have a currency to do attempts. You ran out? Too bad.
Imagine Blizz pulling this both with Torghast.

The only reason, literally the only reason you think the Mage Tower was better than Torghast is because it was done first.
Oh, and for vanity leggo weapon skins. Which did literally nothing for your gameplay.

A challenging mode of the game for awesome weapon skins? Yes, please.

[Romanthony]

I think it all depends on the powers, like a mage can get infinite mirror images, a paladin can get a forever aoe silence around them A bm hunter gets..... yea nothing

Also i think its because we never got the version from beta the one which everyone was raging about saying "This is the best thing ever" we got an extremely watered down version

[Garymorilix]

I always find it funny when I see arguments like this, as someone who did 36 mage towers tank ones were ez, healers however i did have a problems.

Please do not talk about rose tinted glasses as you clearly didn't do much of them.
I never ran out of attempts (like it was not even funny how easy it was to get attempts) and I did them in span of 11 days (with exclusion of bm, mm, destro, affli and ele)
That means I had to do some gear farming on my god forsaken alts that barely step foot outside of Garrison v2.
So yes if you vastly overgeared them all it might be too easy.

I still have old spreadsheet:



Still, mage tower was several leagues ahead of this abomination of roguelike torghast boring crap.

Nice try. I did all the specs except for Warlocks and Priests (as I didn't have those classes leveled back then).

Getting invasion + argus token gear in like 2-3 days to vastly overgear a "challenge" is way below the bar.
Not like they were actually challenging when they were current content.
They were tedious at best with avoiding basically insta-kills. DPS ones were just burst fests.

Plus, it's not like I could do them ever again. Maybe that would've made it much more fun, try new stuff.
But no, once they were done they were basically deleted from the game for you.

I did it when it first came out, and when it was super easy with gear. Both times were rewarding for amazing transmog. Purely optional. Can’t say the same for torghast as a mythic raider.

Just because you don’t like the transmog doesn’t mean it wasn’t important for others. I love my shattered ashbringer, I love my flail, do you know what I don’t love? Having to do something so easy that is just kill trash, then one harder trash mob, every week, so I can compete in mythic raids. Didn’t have that problem with Mage tower.
But you knew this, you just want to use Mage tower as a scapegoat.

I wasn't the one who brought up the Mage Tower. I replied to it.

That won't make the Mage Tower better than Torghast tho. Torghast has way more variety to play with, the Mage Tower was a "do it once and it's deleted" thing.

This is an MMO, I prefer a long lasting game mode with variety over a do-it-one-time-and-we-delete-it-for-you game mode any time.

A challenging mode of the game for awesome weapon skins? Yes, please.

I'd be all for that, but we haven't had a Challenging mode yet.

Imagine locking awesome weapon skins behind a challenge that 80% of the players can't engage with. You can get either the challenge or the weapon skins, not both.

[spalernTJ]

The rogue elements are shallow and unintuintive, which means people who thoroughly enjoy rogue experiences are disappointed by the lack of synergies, upgrades, bosses, aesthetic and progression.

If you're not into Rogue games, you won't enjoy any of the rogue elements beyond having more damage / power for your abilities, while primarily doing it for Soul Ash.

I'm not going to say that liking the current iteration of Torghast is impossible or shows a lack of taste, I personally just don't see how you can get much of any real enjoyment out of it. If I want a rogue experience, why choose Torghast over; Binding of Isaac, Hades, Drift Nova, Monster Train, Enter the gungeon, Griftlands, Darkest dungeon, Slay the Spire... I could go on.

At the same time, if I want the tab targeting, MMORPG combat experience, why would I choose to do Torghast, with what i Consider boring and borderline unfun enemies and tactless bosses that doesn't go much beyond total annihilation thanks to overpowered abilities or over tuned class?

[Soikona]

Nice try. I did all the specs except for Warlocks and Priests (as I didn't have those classes leveled back then).

Getting invasion + argus token gear in like 2-3 days to vastly overgear a "challenge" is way below the bar.
Not like they were actually challenging when they were current content.
They were tedious at best with avoiding basically insta-kills. DPS ones were just burst fests.

Plus, it's not like I could do them ever again. Maybe that would've made it much more fun, try new stuff.
But no, once they were done they were basically deleted from the game for you.



I wasn't the one who brought up the Mage Tower. I replied to it.

That won't make the Mage Tower better than Torghast tho. Torghast has way more variety to play with, the Mage Tower was a "do it once and it's deleted" thing.

This is an MMO, I prefer a long lasting game mode with variety over a do-it-one-time-and-we-delete-it-for-you game mode any time.



I'd be all for that, but we haven't had a Challenging mode yet.

Imagine locking awesome weapon skins behind a challenge that 80% of the players can't engage with. You can get either the challenge or the weapon skins, not both.

Right, you can have that opinion but calling others opinion nothing but shit because it’s nostalgia is pure BS. The majority of people here that don’t like torghast don’t care that people enjoy it. But yet you people that enjoy it seem to have a problem that us that don’t like torghast, don’t want to do time consuming, mind numbingly easy content every week.

If it was challenging, optional or had unique class/spec rewards (like CMs in MoP and WoD, and the Mage tower) then I would be happy. All I ask, is one of them.