Why do people hate Torghast so much?

[Biomega]

1. Repetitive - they tried their best with the different wings, but honestly it's just always the same: go through map, beat floor boss, repeat.
2. Mandatory - the rewards are fundamental to character progression, so you have to do it all the time, on every character, every week, for a very long time.
3. Anima Powers - they SOUND fun at first, until you realize that a lot of the time you just end up either doing the exact same thing, or feeling bad because of bad rolls
4. Bosses - Torghast has incredibly boring and simplistic bosses, a lot of the time they die in literal seconds and you ignore most mechanics

All of that combines to make a chore rather than an activity. Instead of something you WANT to do because it's enjoyable, it becomes something you HAVE to do because it has uniquely attractive rewards.

...which, when you boil it down, is at the heart of a lot of WoW's problems.

[arkanon]

But that's exactly the point of this thread. WHY is it not fun. I can pinpoint WHY I find it fun. Can you not pinpoint WHY you do not find it fun? How hard can it be. Refer to my fish example above, for more clarification as to what it is I am looking for. A poster above, for example, said he didn't find the layout and the colours appealing. THAT is a viable reason. "I don't find it fun" sadly, is way too general and gives 0 insight as to WHY it is not fun.

You are way off base with this - its not for me to explain specific reasons i don't find something fun - fun is subjective, and subjective things can be very difficult to define and explain, to break down and analyze. Its also not something i spend ANY time thinking about, as i said, if i dont enjoy something, I dont do it. I dont sit there wasting time trying to analyze it and figure out WHY I dont like it, i just dont.

I did mention more than one thing that I didnt like about it, so im guessing you didnt actually read the entire reply.

Compared to MT, the encounters are braindead - nothing even remotely interesting or unique about any of them - this is by design. Its really not particularly difficult at all, unless you just get terrible rolls, or are playing an unfortunate spec. Even then, the difference between a one spec and another is usually just how OP some specs/builds are, but even with bad rolls its not very challenging. MT was very different, except that with that as well, some specs had things easier than others - thats about the only similarity, and one HUGE difference is when you were done with the MT, you were done with it, and not doing it for weeks on end didnt hold you back in any way at all.

Its actually extremely linear, very repetitive, and boring. Its just not fun, and its honestly that simple.

[Nalam the Venom]

Because doing the same thing over and over for 2 years isn’t fun,

What?

Isen't that like the main draw of MMORPG games?

To grind things to get better things?

Also if doing the same thing over and over is not fun.. then how can something like Diablo or progressing a raid boss be "Fun" ?

I'm so confused by this logic.

[Gref]

What the title says. I main Guardian druid, which is a tanking spec. I find Torghast to be a lot of fun, due to the fact you can literally break the game. While doing my Endless Corridor runs, I reached a point where I had 85+ anima powers, 70% Versatility, 60% haste, 90% Mastery and 70% crit.

Torghast quite literally gives us the ability to BREAK THE GAME! I reached a boss with 6 million HP and downed it in 35 seconds. The amount of power my bear had at that point was batshit crazy.

9.1 made Torghast even better. I got some guildies (2 main DPSers from the raid team + a member's alt that he will reroll to in 9.1 as his main) so we can do Layer 9, when it was released. We spent THREE hours in Torghast and we didn't even realise how the time passed. We were all on discord, discussing, choosing Anima powers that had good synergy with what the rest of us had picked, and our 4th member who was on his alt was basicaly the group's "errand boy". As in, we'd enter a room, I would round up everything in it, mage and rogue mains would assist me in mowing them down and the hunter alt was running around opening chests, breaking jars, freeing souls and talking to quest NPC's. We really had a blast, it was good fun.

So I ask: Why do people hate Torghast? In Solo mode it is a very nice way to break the game and reach insane stats, in group mode in 9.1 it's actually engaging content, as long as voice coms are in the picture. It's quite literally an amalgamation of everything WoW has to offer - mob farming, resource gathering, a degree of exploration, bossfights and ability upgrades. In 1 activity. So why do people hate it so much?

Thank you for your time in reading thus far.

Imagine doing 17 floors of twisting corridors, you reach the boss without following powers as arms;
execute anytime
execute stun
die by the sword duration
ignore pain

it is nothing but frustration when you effort goes to waste after you spend an hour and half there and rng fucks you up for good.
It should be commendable I reached lvl 17 without those buffs already but nope, sorry you are done. try your rng again.

No thank you. Tried it 2 times, both experience same, one finished at floor 15 the other at 17.

as for other wings, since the release of the patch I have only done one wing. Fuck soul ashes. Same as soul cinders. fuck torgast.
I love rng but even without the rng factor, it should be doable. It wasn't. And normal wings, I do not even pick up powers, it is a fucking chore, I do not do anything but rush to the end and kill the boss. Preferably in less than 20mins. I only do once a week, and actually did not step inside it for a month or two I think. Just did it last week again once. Gave me headache. I logged off and slept.

[Kumorii]

Beats me, I hope they keep on expanding it and make it more and more polished.

[Dalinos]

Because some people don't actually play a class they enjoy playing.

I enjoy Torghast, because I enjoy the gameplay of my class. Even hitting a target dummy is fun with it.

I think you hit the nail and won the thread with this comment my dude. I never thought of that. I too, enjoy playing my Druid so much that I find hitting the Tanking Target dummy for 5 mins to see how many stacks I can get it to as ALOT of fun. Simply seeing the Thrash animation on the Mage Tower Challenge skin of Bear form is satisfying. Like throwing your Axe in PS4's God of War and then pressing L1 (or was it L2?) to summon it back. It just felt satisfying. Or assassinating someone from behind in Assassin's Creed with your hidden blade. Also VERY satisfying gameplay.

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Because doing the same thing over and over for 2 years isn’t fun, and on every single alt. If you have several alts you literally spend a night every week running Torghast. In before “you don’t even have to do it”. Yeah you kinda do if you want to keep your characters up to speed if you plan on playing them to their full potential, which I do, because it’s not fun getting rolled over by people with better gear whether it be pve or pvp. And you need different legendary’s for different situations. Blizzard also forcing people to re-farm legendary’s because of their new domination sockets is also beyond fucking dumb. It literally took a month to make one at 235, and they’re basically giving people the middle finger.

I've heard that argument before. That making players recraft legendaries is a big fuck you to the players. However, what people don't seem to understand is that BY THE TIME your legendary slot MATTERS in gearing up with Shards of Domination gear, you'll have over 20,000 Soul Ash banked just by getting your Soul Cinders from layers 9-12. Re-crafting a leggo is seriously not that big of an issue.

[Kauko]

Personally? BORING! I have to force my self to even enter it, let alone play it... What is even the point of it? Just some random content... As one forum member said once, they should really not hire designers that are obsessed with this kind of Diablo like grindy, repetitive, BORING content.

And I wont even start to complain about the design. As much as Isles were lazy content, at least we had different locations. Torghast is one and the same lazy graphic design one after another...

[LordVargK]

Hrmm. They made it far more "Grindy" in 9.1 due to the score system, and the fact that you have to get 180 points to get to the next layer. So you need to go in with a game plan to progress, can't just yolo it anymore.

Once you've unlocked layer 12 you can yolo it again.

[Zora-Prime]

ngl it's my favorite thing to do in wow.

If it had loot i wouldn't do anything else.

[Osmeric]

Care to reply with arguments,

Care to not demand people rationally justify to you their gut reactions?

Perhaps a part of it is that people signed up to play an MMO, not a rogue-like. If I eat at a restaurant and order burgers, and they suddenly start insisting I eat asparagus instead, I'm not going to be happy, even if I can't objectively explain why I hate asparagus.

[sam86]

also u are druid, so i don't know why exactly
for me i did torghast on 6 different classes and from my pov i can understand why would ppl hate it
the experience for me is vastly different between a druid (worst class imo to do torghast) and rogue (best so far), druid has so much generic anima power that it annoys me, as boomkin, i don't want a power that increase out of stealth, i'll lose 1.5 gcd anyway to shape from cat to chicken to start dps
on other hand, rogue anima powers are amazing, dmg sapped targets, get all end-tier abilities, and so on

Another problem of Torghast is rewards, its rewards are crap, just soul ash for ~30 min run (i count time to travel, u don't magically appear there) once a week, repeat for weeks just to upgrade ur lego that is already pita to get

Still i find it really fun part of wow, best of SL, just make a better reward and keep it as it is (i don't like 9.1 changes, but i didn't sub yet to test them)

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I think you hit the nail and won the thread with this comment my dude.

i disagree, i enjoy boomkin druid but i hate doing Torghast with it, and I enjoy doing Torghast on rogue assassin/warlock demo/paladin (all specs)
I hate doing it on hunter BM but i don't like hunter that much either, but i for sure enjoy playing druid, yet i hate doing Torghast on him, when my best anima power is the covenant ability that says something imo

[epigramx]

I bet it's because it got OLD to them. I played up to a month or two this expansion and people then either liked it a little or they were indifferent so I guess now the indifferent hate it and the ones that like it either still like it or are indifferent.

Play Hades though to see how this gametype is ought to be done perfectly; I had played it and still found WoW's version OK; but Hades is clearly a 10/10 at it while WoW's version at most a ~7ish.

[Thundering]

because it is boring and repetitive, like most modern wow content.

[mojusk]

i dont mind it. it entertained me for a while.
but it couldve been alot better than it is.
it shouldve had better rewards, like a way to get gear equal to m+. but at the same time having unique mandatory rewards is a bad idea, cuz it make players feel forced to do it, instead of wanting to do it.
limited deaths and time should never have been a thing.
its too easy, and the bosses are boring glorified trash mobs.
i dont like when the rng cockblocks you, i know that rng is part of a roguelite. but instead of cockblocking you, it should just vary our playstyle.
a rating system couldve been cool. and like gladiators, the top 1% rated players at the end of season could get a cool title/mounts etc.

[Xalvia]

i got sick of it after 2 months and stopped doing it.

[Morgaith]

People hate it because it's mandatory for proper character progression.

[Dalinos]

Care to not demand people rationally justify to you their gut reactions?

Perhaps a part of it is that people signed up to play an MMO, not a rogue-like. If I eat at a restaurant and order burgers, and they suddenly start insisting I eat asparagus instead, I'm not going to be happy.

Problem with this is that gut reactions don't promote discussion and argumentation. Which is what a forum is used for. Refer to my fish example above.

[VinceVega]

I like Thorgast as a concept. I do not like reapeating content over and over again without a satisfying reward. Raids, Dungeons and PvP give you gear and the fun in playing it.

Thorgast just gives you a unintersting currency. Well you get a bit more right now, but it is still lacking. Grinding is only bearable because you get something from it.
And yes i agree, that grinding is an integral part of an MMO. But damn... thorgast got annoying really quickly.

Also waaaaaaaaay to easy. I mostly watch a tv show no matter the class and at some point i could not even remember the run afterwards like a routine car drive to work or something. Sooooooo boring

[Raugnaut]

Yea, so doing weekly Choreghast run...

1: It seems that the Devils in Mort count against completion. Thus, it seems to be impossible to ever get 100% completion in Mort due to Devils.
2: Powers - Less powers in Torghast until the 3x anima powers in Torghast is completed due to lacking an entire floor. Additionally, constantly feel Phantasma starved despite the amount of Phantasma increasing due to increased layer, mainly due to having to save 500 Phantasma each run.
3: Score system. It's complete bullshit really.
3a: Solo tank/heal play in Torghast is basically dead, as it's essentially -90 possible points. You aren't going to get good time, you aren't going to be able to kill every elite before they hit 5 stacks, and you aren't going to be able to kill in 20 seconds and likely not even 40 seconds.
3b: It feels bad having to pass on almost everything at the merchant because you need that Phantasm. It feels bad having to pass on great epic powers because that deprives you of points. It feels bad carefully planning the powers you pick, only to get fucked over anyway because it gave you 2 duplicate choices anyway.
3c: It also feels bad having to kill every single !@#$ing Mawrat and smash even those singleton jars that's halfway across the map, just because it's -10 points if you don't.
3d: Finally, it feels incredibly bad when you do smash every single available jar and every single killable mob, and you only have 50% completion because there's an entire 3 corridors full of mobs and jars that you can't access, because there's a !@#$ing dead-end door blocking the way, or some other retarded floor design they obviously didn't QA.

Overall, the changes to Torghast have significantly decreased my enjoyment of it. Haven't been able to get 30 anima powers, even with 100% completion, not once, whereas previously I was ending up with 35-45 powers per run.

This needs some serious changes asap.

[muto]

What?

Isen't that like the main draw of MMORPG games?

To grind things to get better things?

Also if doing the same thing over and over is not fun.. then how can something like Diablo or progressing a raid boss be "Fun" ?

I'm so confused by this logic.

Wiping to a raid boss 500 times before you finally beat it, and feel a rush of satisfaction (It's a challenge) is different than beating an easy raid boss 500 times. Nothing about Torghast is challenging. It's a grind just to be a grind.