Why do people hate Torghast so much?

[Dalinos]

What the title says. I main Guardian druid, which is a tanking spec. I find Torghast to be a lot of fun, due to the fact you can literally break the game. While doing my Endless Corridor runs, I reached a point where I had 85+ anima powers, 70% Versatility, 60% haste, 90% Mastery and 70% crit.

Torghast quite literally gives us the ability to BREAK THE GAME! I reached a boss with 6 million HP and downed it in 35 seconds. The amount of power my bear had at that point was batshit crazy.

9.1 made Torghast even better. I got some guildies (2 main DPSers from the raid team + a member's alt that he will reroll to in 9.1 as his main) so we can do Layer 9, when it was released. We spent THREE hours in Torghast and we didn't even realise how the time passed. We were all on discord, discussing, choosing Anima powers that had good synergy with what the rest of us had picked, and our 4th member who was on his alt was basicaly the group's "errand boy". As in, we'd enter a room, I would round up everything in it, mage and rogue mains would assist me in mowing them down and the hunter alt was running around opening chests, breaking jars, freeing souls and talking to quest NPC's. We really had a blast, it was good fun.

So I ask: Why do people hate Torghast? In Solo mode it is a very nice way to break the game and reach insane stats, in group mode in 9.1 it's actually engaging content, as long as voice coms are in the picture. It's quite literally an amalgamation of everything WoW has to offer - mob farming, resource gathering, a degree of exploration, bossfights and ability upgrades. In 1 activity. So why do people hate it so much?

Thank you for your time in reading thus far.

[Razion]

... because it isn't fun.

[Dalinos]

... because it isn't fun.

Care to reply with arguments, such as the ones I laid out above? I clearly stated why and how I find Torghast to be a fun activity. It would be cool if you could do the same, so we can get a discussion going. That is what a forum is used for, since the times of the Ancient Romans (where the word comes from actually) when they thought up the concept.

[Sorshen]

It's not fun or 'roguelike' enough to warrant repeating it w/o being driven by mandatory currency. And the 9.1 changes hardly make more attractive.
It's a rough contrast to Legion tower challenges.

[Dalinos]

It's not fun or 'roguelike' enough to warrant repeating it w/o being driven by mandatory currency. And the 9.1 changes hardly make more attractive.
It's a rough contrast to Legion tower challenges.

Ok....but why? What makes it not fun? This is the question that I'm trying to get an answer for. Simply saying "It's not fun" is like saying "I just don't like fish". Ok, you don't like fish. Why? Is it the taste? The texture? The concept behind fishing? The prep-time it takes to clean, disembowel, behead and un-scale a fish before you can cook it?

THESE are the questions I'm looking to find the answers for. Pertaining to Torghast of course, not fish.

Edit: Legion Mage Tower challenges had 2 massive, massive mistakes. A) they could be over-geared, making the fights trivial and B) while the fights were amazing, it was a 1-time deal. I vividly remember wiping over 170 times in complete and utter shit gear on the tanking challenge, but in the end I got it. Fast forward 4 months later, Blizz says they will remove it, so I think "I should go try the resto/Moonkin/feral challenge". And I do, at 40 itemlevels higher. I one-shotted all those challenges, in offspecs I hadn't played in years. So while Mage Tower Challenge was cool, it didn't have replay value.

[muto]

Because doing the same thing over and over for 2 years isn’t fun, and on every single alt. If you have several alts you literally spend a night every week running Torghast. In before “you don’t even have to do it”. Yeah you kinda do if you want to keep your characters up to speed if you plan on playing them to their full potential, which I do, because it’s not fun getting rolled over by people with better gear whether it be pve or pvp. And you need different legendary’s for different situations. Blizzard also forcing people to re-farm legendary’s because of their new domination sockets is also beyond fucking dumb. It literally took a month to make one at 235, and they’re basically giving people the middle finger.

[Cosmic Janitor]

It's not fun or 'roguelike' enough to warrant repeating it w/o being driven by mandatory currency. And the 9.1 changes hardly make more attractive.
It's a rough contrast to Legion tower challenges.

This. It fails at being interesting as a rogue-like/lite in itself and is pretty much proped up entirely by progression relevant currencies.

[Dead Moose Fandango]

For one, the place is pretty ugly imo. Gray everywhere with blue tints. Practically looks the same on every level. Next, aside from final boss, it's the same thing over and over. Kill boring trash, maybe dodge some traps, then kill an elite at the end to move on to the next floor. Rinse and repeat.

Hell, it's practically the same place as the final level of D3 Reaper of Souls. And I absolutely hated that bland-ass environment. They could've at least used one of the better levels of D3 for Torghast!

[Raugnaut]

What the title says. I main Guardian druid, which is a tanking spec. I find Torghast to be a lot of fun, due to the fact you can literally break the game. While doing my Endless Corridor runs, I reached a point where I had 85+ anima powers, 70% Versatility, 60% haste, 90% Mastery and 70% crit.

Torghast quite literally gives us the ability to BREAK THE GAME! I reached a boss with 6 million HP and downed it in 35 seconds. The amount of power my bear had at that point was batshit crazy.

9.1 made Torghast even better. I got some guildies (2 main DPSers from the raid team + a member's alt that he will reroll to in 9.1 as his main) so we can do Layer 9, when it was released. We spent THREE hours in Torghast and we didn't even realise how the time passed. We were all on discord, discussing, choosing Anima powers that had good synergy with what the rest of us had picked, and our 4th member who was on his alt was basicaly the group's "errand boy". As in, we'd enter a room, I would round up everything in it, mage and rogue mains would assist me in mowing them down and the hunter alt was running around opening chests, breaking jars, freeing souls and talking to quest NPC's. We really had a blast, it was good fun.

So I ask: Why do people hate Torghast? In Solo mode it is a very nice way to break the game and reach insane stats, in group mode in 9.1 it's actually engaging content, as long as voice coms are in the picture. It's quite literally an amalgamation of everything WoW has to offer - mob farming, resource gathering, a degree of exploration, bossfights and ability upgrades. In 1 activity. So why do people hate it so much?

Thank you for your time in reading thus far.

Hrmm. They made it far more "Grindy" in 9.1 due to the score system, and the fact that you have to get 180 points to get to the next layer. So you need to go in with a game plan to progress, can't just yolo it anymore.

[SunspotAnims]

Honestly it's been a highlight of Shadowlands for me, gameplay-wise. Sure, I think it needs a better thought-out reward structure, but it's rare for any solo (or solo-optional) content in the game to balance the line between being challenging and making you feel powerful so well.

If I were the devs, I'd keep iterating on the concept for future expacs, but I'd keep the old ones relevant in some way. Make it a new form of side content with universal rewards between them all.

[Gestopft]

Largely because it's mandatory. Of course people can have legitimate reasons why they might like/dislike something, but nothing kills fun like being told you have to do it (you know...if you want any legendaries...)

[MrKnubbles]

It depends on your class and spec. You say you like that you can break the game and do crazy things. As a BM Hunter, we get the lamest powers which are just damage modifiers. I'd enjoy it a lot more if it actually changed HOW I play the spec.

[Cinnamilk]

Legion Mage Tower challenges had 2 massive, massive mistakes. A) they could be over-geared, making the fights trivial and B) while the fights were amazing, it was a 1-time deal.

You say that like B is a bug, and not a feature. The fact that it wasn't tied to a power grind was one of the best things about it.
Sure, Torghast is fun, the first couple of times on a single character. Much less so when there's a strong power-based incentive to do it weekly on all the characters you want to play.
I have better shit to do with my time that isn't WOW related, and the devs take offense at that. The necessity of it starts to feel like some sort of arbitrary punishing grind that you just want to get out of the way so you can do the actual fun things.

[arkanon]

Its just not fun to do - Its not enjoyable. Its not random enough to be "roguelike" and just feels almost like an on the rails shooter. But its honestly just that simple - I dont find it fun, and this is a game, meant to entertain, and if it isnt entertaining me, I wont do it.

You can reply with "BUT WHYYYYYYYYY" as many times as you want, but "its not fun" is an absolutely acceptable response.

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Torghast quite literally gives us the ability to BREAK THE GAME!

No, it literally does not - its all intended and normal, it just gives you that illusion.

Just to be clear, for those who do enjoy it, good! happy for them, glad people enjoy it. I do not.

[shadowmatrix]

Because doing the same thing over and over for 2 years isn’t fun, and on every single alt. If you have several alts you literally spend a night every week running Torghast. In before “you don’t even have to do it”. Yeah you kinda do if you want to keep your characters up to speed if you plan on playing them to their full potential, which I do, because it’s not fun getting rolled over by people with better gear whether it be pve or pvp. And you need different legendary’s for different situations. Blizzard also forcing people to re-farm legendary’s because of their new domination sockets is also beyond fucking dumb. It literally took a month to make one at 235, and they’re basically giving people the middle finger.

So your saying that people who want to keep their raid spots have to work to stay ahead of the other players who are working to catch up? The more things change the more they stay the same.

[Naoto]

It was fun on some specs and straight up torture on others for me and the problem was the complete rng when it came to the powers, some are so good you absolutely NEED them or it feels horrible and if you get them it's great, if you don't get them as I said, it feels like torture. If they categorized the powers and let us pick whatever we wanted with a cap of 2 then I'd enjoy it more but when the rng gods are not on my side I fucking detest it.

[Voidwielder]

There's just something about it that makes me recoil and say - I don't want to be here, please make this quick.

It gets better once everyone is turbo charged and as a Resto Shaman I can do some absolutely wild shit on Floor 4 with right powers but still, I wish I did not have to go in there.

Better than Islands though, I think I did 10-15 of them at most. By far the most soul crushing experience I have ever had in gaming.

[Dalinos]

Its just not fun to do - Its not enjoyable. Its not random enough to be "roguelike" and just feels almost like an on the rails shooter. But its honestly just that simple - I dont find it fun, and this is a game, meant to entertain, and if it isnt entertaining me, I wont do it.

You can reply with "BUT WHYYYYYYYYY" as many times as you want, but "its not fun" is an absolutely acceptable response.



No, it literally does not - its all intended and normal, it just gives you that illusion.

Just to be clear, for those who do enjoy it, good! happy for them, glad people enjoy it. I do not.

But that's exactly the point of this thread. WHY is it not fun. I can pinpoint WHY I find it fun. Can you not pinpoint WHY you do not find it fun? How hard can it be. Refer to my fish example above, for more clarification as to what it is I am looking for. A poster above, for example, said he didn't find the layout and the colours appealing. THAT is a viable reason. "I don't find it fun" sadly, is way too general and gives 0 insight as to WHY it is not fun.

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It depends on your class and spec. You say you like that you can break the game and do crazy things. As a BM Hunter, we get the lamest powers which are just damage modifiers. I'd enjoy it a lot more if it actually changed HOW I play the spec.

Then that sucks for BM Hunters, it really does. Hopefully they see the problem and give you some new, more engaging Anima powers in the future! Fingers crossed!

[Mojo03]

The rewards aren't great, it's not tuned well, and it doesn't have enough depth and variety for a good roguelike.

I don't hate it, but that's currently why I don't do it.

If they keep working on it, it could be good, but they won't. They'll give up it and throw it away like they do with everything else they do, which is a shame.

[WurstKaeseSzenario]

Normal wings are just a repetitive timesink with different nuisances every week.

Endless corridors don't have replay value. It's not fun having to hope for correct boni, varying between unplayable and 300k DPS single target with a 1-button-rotation.

I hope the patch changed it for the better. Couldn't see much of an difference on level 9 in the first week.