Why do people hate Torghast so much?

[dragonballgtz]

I'm no longer subbed so I speak on my experience from the start of the expansion until about mid April.

It felt too short and long at the same time. Too short because due to RNG you might get the right powers to just start feeling powerful at floor 6. Too long because some floors just seemed to drag on and on without good powers. Personally I would of liked to be TC Floor 18 powerful by the time I hit floor 6 in regular Torghast.

Also in regards to powers there were not enough class specific powers. Lots of generic powers but after awhile you only really had two or three specific core class powers... not nearly enough class specific powers to make different builds

[Mezzy]

To start with let's just look at the base Torghast experience that was introduced in 9.0. The experience differs greatly depending on which class/spec your main is. All Torghast class experiences are not created equal.
I play a BM hunter and good lord it's like they didn't even try to design a fun experience for hunters in Torghast. The anima powers are not impactful. The higher up you go in floors it becomes more of a slog because your character power doesn't increase significantly. I still can't get over the fact that a power that increases your pet's damage by (now) 500% damage while under the effects of eyes of the beast is considered a rare power. Meanwhile on some of my alts the powers you gain as a different class really bring forth that temporary fun overpowered feeling.

Then in comes the new rating system for Torghast in 9.1, where time and burst damage on elites matters a lot for earning points for a 4-5 star completion. Not a single change was made to BM hunters in the patch. I still do the same non-burst but consistent damage in a game mode where health and damage steadily increase because it's designed around getting anima powers that really power up your character.

How could I not hate Torghast when there seems to be 0 care put into making the experience fun for all classes/specs?

[Zaktar]

What the title says. I main Guardian druid, which is a tanking spec. I find Torghast to be a lot of fun, due to the fact you can literally break the game. While doing my Endless Corridor runs, I reached a point where I had 85+ anima powers, 70% Versatility, 60% haste, 90% Mastery and 70% crit.

Torghast quite literally gives us the ability to BREAK THE GAME! I reached a boss with 6 million HP and downed it in 35 seconds. The amount of power my bear had at that point was batshit crazy.

9.1 made Torghast even better. I got some guildies (2 main DPSers from the raid team + a member's alt that he will reroll to in 9.1 as his main) so we can do Layer 9, when it was released. We spent THREE hours in Torghast and we didn't even realise how the time passed. We were all on discord, discussing, choosing Anima powers that had good synergy with what the rest of us had picked, and our 4th member who was on his alt was basicaly the group's "errand boy". As in, we'd enter a room, I would round up everything in it, mage and rogue mains would assist me in mowing them down and the hunter alt was running around opening chests, breaking jars, freeing souls and talking to quest NPC's. We really had a blast, it was good fun.

So I ask: Why do people hate Torghast? In Solo mode it is a very nice way to break the game and reach insane stats, in group mode in 9.1 it's actually engaging content, as long as voice coms are in the picture. It's quite literally an amalgamation of everything WoW has to offer - mob farming, resource gathering, a degree of exploration, bossfights and ability upgrades. In 1 activity. So why do people hate it so much?

Thank you for your time in reading thus far.

For me the ramp up was way too slow. It's true that for brief, shining moments the game played very differently and you felt powerful, but it wasn't enough. I think I was playing 20 boring minutes for every 1 of those fun minutes. Add to that the fact that it is an artistic void - the music, the levels, the mobs are all bland. There were other things I could do that yielded more fun so I moved on.

[Paperfox]

It contains rares that can essentially end your run, and you exit with nothing but a bad taste in your mouth.

It felt - to me at least - that in order to complete the run I needed to go to wowhead and look up strategies on all the rares and bosses.

So the game was not testing me as a player, nor was it testing me to see how well I could play a certain class - no it was testing me on my ability to read a third party website.

I still consider this to be a failure on the Dev Team's part.

If you like TC then I'm happy for you.

[unbound]

Care to reply with arguments, such as the ones I laid out above? I clearly stated why and how I find Torghast to be a fun activity. It would be cool if you could do the same, so we can get a discussion going. That is what a forum is used for, since the times of the Ancient Romans (where the word comes from actually) when they thought up the concept.

Not all of us are as easily amused as you are.

"...because it isn't fun." is a perfectly legitimate response. You find it fun because you crushed the boss easily in a few seconds. To many of us, that is the exact opposite of fun. It's boring. It's the same reason WoW PvP sucks...you are either destroying someone easily (not fun) or being pounded on and unable to respond (not fun).

Similarly, I don't enjoy crushing ants or running faster than toddlers. If you think running faster than a toddler is fun...well, enjoy. The rest of the world shouldn't have to explain to you why the utter lack of challenge and doing the same thing over and over and over again isn't fun.

[ashblond]

Because Torghast takes two of the most "anti-fun" things in WoW and combines them into an absolute misery:
1) hours and hours of killing trash mobs
2) with no reward

100% This...

[Swnem]

Oh man... this thread just made me remember Torghast exists and i need to run it again this week.

I was kind of enthralled by the new raid, flying and dungeon that i forgot about it.

[oldgeezer]

I found it the opposite of fun. Chop through trash for 20-30 minutes without reward, arrive at a boss who only drops currency. Rinse and repeat. Yawn.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Problem with this is that gut reactions don't promote discussion and argumentation. Which is what a forum is used for. Refer to my fish example above.

Ok....but why? What makes it not fun? This is the question that I'm trying to get an answer for. Simply saying "It's not fun" is like saying "I just don't like fish". Ok, you don't like fish. Why? Is it the taste? The texture? The concept behind fishing? The prep-time it takes to clean, disembowel, behead and un-scale a fish before you can cook it?

THESE are the questions I'm looking to find the answers for. Pertaining to Torghast of course, not fish.

Edit: Legion Mage Tower challenges had 2 massive, massive mistakes. A) they could be over-geared, making the fights trivial and B) while the fights were amazing, it was a 1-time deal. I vividly remember wiping over 170 times in complete and utter shit gear on the tanking challenge, but in the end I got it. Fast forward 4 months later, Blizz says they will remove it, so I think "I should go try the resto/Moonkin/feral challenge". And I do, at 40 itemlevels higher. I one-shotted all those challenges, in offspecs I hadn't played in years. So while Mage Tower Challenge was cool, it didn't have replay value.

Putting it this way, it really just sounds like you want people to state why they're not having fun so you can try to convince them that what they find unfun is actually fun? Or give them alternative goals to make it fun. Typically something should be fun out of the box. If you need to jump through a ton of hoops to find personal satisfaction, that's not how a game should work. Lots of people just aren't having fun, and all I'm seeing from other players is "You're just a hater and all you do is shit talk Blizzard!" or "Well here's an alternative method to having fun!

If WoW Shadowlands released as a brand new IP Fall of 2020, it would have been dead by new years. They've created a game that has a ton to do but nothing people actually want to do because it's more obvious than ever it's just chores.

[Raugnaut]

It’s 160

You get 1 point per 1% of completion
If you hit below the par time each time you get up to 50 points
By doing completion you get multiple challenges I think 20 points minimum
If you empower for the final boss and burn him you get 35-45 points doubled

I've tested and checked - You don't actually get double points for Empowerment from any of the "optionals", just from completion and time.

The two optionals that are related to Completion are Pillager for 5 points and Savior for 10 points - 90% of all jars and free all trapped souls, respectively.

There's also the Rescuer and Plunderer optionals for 10/5 points as well, but those do not count towards completion.

You are right that it's 160 points rather then 180 points to progress.

Doesn't matter either way you put it though - It's in no way, shape, or form an improvement to Torghast. Only detriments with this new system.

[Biggles Worth]

Anyone else not have a PHD in fish dissection to explain why Torghast isn't fun for them?

[saixilein]

Because you are forced to it again and again and again and again. And when u are playing more then one character you are forced to do it AGAIN!

Thirgast was fun the first few times, but after the like 1000th run its tidous, boring and annoying.

[TOM_RUS]

Because it's nothing but a chore you forced to do.

If Blizzard added alternate ways to earn currency for crafting legendaries (make it drop from raids/dungeons/pvp) it won't be hated so much...

[Atrea]

I don't mind Torghast - it's okay, feels like it could be better.

But what really gets me is OP's stubborn insistence that people justify why they do not like something, and then when they do explain it, he rejects their explanations.

Asking people to prove a negative (like "Prove why Torghast isn't fun") is ridiculous to begin with, but then rejecting any explanation that is given as though people not only have to explain their dislike, but have it approved is just... It's so on-brand for this community.

[Azerate]

I honestly have no idea.

I'm guessing that some of it comes from being 'forced' to do it (in their eyes), that always puts a damper on things. I personally did not touch Torghast for like 4 months, not because I dislike it, but because I was finished with it (Corridors, and had my leggos done) so there was no point to go back there. Love it after the new updates.

[Boricha]

It's just a mundane chore. Not particularly difficult or stimulating, and very repetitive after a while, especially with multiple characters. It really sucked the life out of alts for me. The best anima powers are usually passive damage procs or stat gains. I've never cared about being super OP and one shotting everything in games. That kind of gameplay is only fun for a few minutes until it gets old.

Compared to Mage Towers, I much preferred Mage Towers. It was a good personal challenge that I could beat and be done. I didn't need to do it for power progression. It gave more reason to work on alts so I could beat their challenge and collect the unique mogs. The ability to overgear it in later patches was a good thing for the people who could not otherwise beat the challenge. There's lots of collectors out there who were able to use the new gear to finish the challenge before it went away. I don't see that as a problem as it remained unique for several months and the personal challenge was what made it fun in the first place. The only real downside of Mage Towers for me was the worm/Tauren boss, who was considerably easier than the rest.

[gobio]

Nobody is going around with the crusade and proclaim pet battle is fun. I find it fun, why can't you!! judge judge judge!
Nobody is going around with the crusade and proclaim transmog and mount collecting is fun. I find it fun, why can't you !! judge judge judge!

How about instead of forcing people to do torghast for progression, they make you do pet battle instead or you cannot upgrade legendary unless you have 600 mounts. Then you see people like you yelling "why do people hate pet battle / mount collecting so much?" I find it fun!

SPARE ME!

[Swnem]

Nobody is going around with the crusade and proclaim pet battle is fun. I find it fun, why can't you!! judge judge judge!
Nobody is going around with the crusade and proclaim transmog and mount collecting is fun. I find it fun, why can't you !! judge judge judge!

How about instead of forcing people to do torghast for progression, they make you do pet battle instead or you cannot upgrade legendary unless you have 600 mounts. Then you see people like you yelling "why do people hate pet battle / mount collecting so much?" I find it fun!

SPARE ME!

Haha... indeed. I woild totally do a pet battle dungeon instead of torghast if i had the choice.

[Crimson Spears]

Nobody is going around with the crusade and proclaim pet battle is fun. I find it fun, why can't you!! judge judge judge!
Nobody is going around with the crusade and proclaim transmog and mount collecting is fun. I find it fun, why can't you !! judge judge judge!

How about instead of forcing people to do torghast for progression, they make you do pet battle instead or you cannot upgrade legendary unless you have 600 mounts. Then you see people like you yelling "why do people hate pet battle / mount collecting so much?" I find it fun!

SPARE ME!

Finding a self aware blizzard white knight is rarer then a white rhino.

[Boddhi]

Probably because people have to do it for their legendaries, no matter if they enjoy it or not. And personally i find little enjoyable in it. It has this WoW typical "hopefully i am done with it soon!" activities stench on it.