Why do people hate Torghast so much?

[Glorious Leader]

I mean I do.. are you now boasting that you don't read the posts you quote?

No. Rather that this particular advice is basically worthless. Yes you can play other games. Ergo if you don't like "forced" or "mandatory" grinds go play hello kitty Island adventure.

- - - Updated - - -

Being forced to boring non-content is not an upgrade from being able to do exactly what you want. What kind of warped mentality is this. Being able to log in and do what you like about the game is what the game should be about. If you like pet battles, nice do them. If you like raiding, nice do that. If you like PvP, nice do that. If you like world quests, nice do that. If you dislike any of those, the game should not force you to do it.

Some of us cant play 12 hours a day like you and actually value our free time. I have enough chores in my life for Blizzard to give me forced chores in their games. Let me choose to play the content I enjoy in the game.

I agree im on board. No gear or power gain from any content including raiding. Lets see how fucking satisfying that is.

[Crimson Spears]

No. Rather that this particular advice is basically worthless. Yes you can play other games. Ergo if you don't like "forced" or "mandatory" grinds go play hello kitty Island adventure.

- - - Updated - - -



I agree im on board. No gear or power gain from any content including raiding. Lets see how fucking satisfying that is.

Again the concept seems to escape you. I don't want countless boring actives in a game in a desperate attempt for it to take up all my focus... I rather simply do the parts I enjoy then if I need further entertainment play additional games.

I am willing to bet wow has lost more players by driving them off with boredom then they have retained with their chore systems.

[Dorfadin]

They said when they designed Torghast no shitty timers, they lied, usually takes me 1hr+ to clear as healer so no chance todo in 18mins or less lol

[Queen of Hamsters]

I don't HATE it, but for a main feature of the expansion it just isn't fun enough for me. Especially due to how my class plays. Any time I can spend NOT running Torghast, is time well spent.

- - - Updated - - -

I am willing to bet wow has lost more players by driving them off with boredom then they have retained with their chore systems.

And yet they haven't reported a single negative Quarterly report in regards to WoW since Legion.

I dislike the designs going on from BfA forward, but let's at least ground arguments made in reality.

[Dethxx]

I personally don’t like jerking off with sandpaper

[Goladir]

Because people love to complain, they follow others like sheep..

[Cthulhu fhtagn]

I can understand disliking torghast, but i feel like the volume of the hate is at least partly just circlejerk by the same crowd latching on to anything they can complain about. I do think that doing enough torghast to get your legendary is not all that bad compared to trying to get legendaries in legion for example.

Then again, i do enjoy torghast to some extent, would definitely not play my alts if i disliked it and had to do it multiple times then. In the case of scoring system, i think it is far better than before. Funnily enough even though there is a timer now, its far less about being fast rather than efficient. Previously i just tried to speedrun it cause it rewarded you for nothing but getting to the end.

[Crimson Spears]

I don't HATE it, but for a main feature of the expansion it just isn't fun enough for me. Especially due to how my class plays. Any time I can spend NOT running Torghast, is time well spent.

- - - Updated - - -



And yet they haven't reported a single negative Quarterly report in regards to WoW since Legion.

I dislike the designs going on from BfA forward, but let's at least ground arguments made in reality.

I mean an ever growing cash shop and rehashing old games can't last forever. If you want to play the business angle we honestly don't have numbers on how wow is doing subscriber wise and whales are not a renewable resource if the game isn't being perceived as doing well. It is why there is a sense FF has blown a weebo sized hole in the hull of blizz.

[Gasparde]

"It's not fun"

"Explain why it's not fun"

"I don't know, it's just not fucking fun"

It isn't fucking fun because it isn't fucking fun. Why is Tetris not fun to some people, why is Chess not fun to some people, why is Torghast not fun to (seemingly) a lot of people? Because it simply isn't. It isn't fun because it's mind-numbingly boring, doesn't have you make any meaningful decisions, doesn't challenge you in any way, doesn't change in any meaningful way between runs, doesn't have appealing looks to it and the worst of all, the second it becomes somewhat tolerable the run fucking ends.

It's not fun because it's a shitty minigame designed by devs who don't know how to design a fun game. It's like The Binding of Isaac... with 1 floor... 5 trinkets... no pills... no cards... no bombs... no keys... no hidden rooms... no real unlocks... but a whole lot of shit you have to individually click on for no reason. It's not fun because it's shit. And it's shit because they've spent like 5 weeks developing this turd concept before some higher ups told them to move the fuck on to the next shitty, unfinished, undercooked, underdeveloped bullshit system. It simply isn't fun because it isn't anything. It's got the depth of a fucking mobile game, fuck, probably even less than that.... and the absolute worst is that it's fucking forced upon you if you wanna progress your character. It's one thing if it were just bad, but it's fucking bad and you absolutely have to do it. It's the worst of all worlds and it just goes to show how all Blizzard can do is copy other games... but sadly, they can't even do that properly - like, they can't even take the work that other roguelikes have been putting in over the last couple decades and actually do something with it... which is just pathetic.

[Glorious Leader]

I am willing to bet wow has lost more players by driving them off with boredom then they have retained with their chore systems.

Of course they did particularly in WoD when the game offered them literally nothing so you didn't have any "chores". You basically want to raid log and can't seem to understand how a game that facilitates this is actually bad for everybody else

[Crimson Spears]

Of course they did particularly in WoD when the game offered them literally nothing so you didn't have any "chores". You basically want to raid log and can't seem to understand how a game that facilitates this is actually bad for everybody else

The problem with wod was giving out free gear via the garrison. I have accepted most of wow's playerbase is so apathic to playing the game that if you just give them free rewards they stop playing.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Not enough powers or thought needs to be put into builds. Probably could blindly click powers or in some cases not even get them and plow on threw. If a required resource wasn't at the end I am sure most people would have dipped a long long time ago on it.

[Milfshaked]

I agree im on board. No gear or power gain from any content including raiding. Lets see how fucking satisfying that is.

You did not engage with a single thing I mentioned, which is pretty telling on how aware you are that you are completely wrong. At no point did I mention gear or power gains.

It is so annoying to see you elitists expect everyone else play 24/7. Some of us have lives and jobs. WoW is a game, not a second job.

[Glorious Leader]

You did not engage with a single thing I mentioned, which is pretty telling on how aware you are that you are completely wrong. At no point did I mention gear or power gains.

It is so annoying to see you elitists expect everyone else play 24/7. Some of us have lives and jobs. WoW is a game, not a second job.

Oh I dont give a shkt what you do or don't do. As far as I'm concerned they could make raiding entirely isolated from the rest of the game and i wouldnt care. What bothers is me is the expectation that the rest of the game is constantly balanced around raiding and more specifically the desire to simple raid log. And yes I didn't engage with a single thing you said because its garbage.

- - - Updated - - -

The problem with wod was giving out free gear via the garrison. I have accepted most of wow's playerbase is so apathic to playing the game that if you just give them free rewards they stop playing.

Oh okay sick so you also don't evidently have a clue about history either let alone what motivated people.

[Crimson Spears]

Oh I dont give a shkt what you do or don't do. As far as I'm concerned they could make raiding entirely isolated from the rest of the game and i wouldnt care. What bothers is me is the expectation that the rest of the game is constantly balanced around raiding and more specifically the desire to simple raid log. And yes I didn't engage with a single thing you said because its garbage.

- - - Updated - - -



Oh okay sick so you also don't evidently have a clue about history either let alone what motivated people.

Didn't you go on a whole rant once about how rewards are content and its the only thing that drives you to do anything? I assume there are at least some players like you and that is why wod has such a bad rap. They took away the only thing you play for. A sense of accomplishment through repetitive actions.

[Glorious Leader]

Didn't you go on a whole rant once about how rewards are content and its the only thing that drives you to do anything? I assume there are at least some players like you and that is why wod has such a bad rap. They took away the only thing you play for. A sense of accomplishment through repetitive actions.

Rewards are indeed content and the arguments presented in that particular thread were unconvincing. People were literally arguing content is only something you do and not something you consume. Art, music, story all not content so some dumb arbitrary point could be made.

WoD was bad because it let you raid log and the rest of the game was essentially worthless. The response to this was AP, a 180 degree change. Ipso facto.

I'm convinced whats best for the game is for you to feel forced. And the more forced the better because it just means the game offers more for other people. If theirs a work around I'd be all for it but I'm dubious of that to be honest since all the proposed ones involve fucking with other peoples rewards so you don't feel put out. I'd rather they just isolate raids to not include power because that's really what your asking for. Daddy developer save me from myself.

[Queen of Hamsters]

I mean an ever growing cash shop and rehashing old games can't last forever. If you want to play the business angle we honestly don't have numbers on how wow is doing subscriber wise and whales are not a renewable resource if the game isn't being perceived as doing well. It is why there is a sense FF has blown a weebo sized hole in the hull of blizz.

"An ever growing cash shop" makes it sound as though their cash shop is on the level of GW2.

It is not. A new mount every 6 months doesn't do jack shit to keep MAUs, the main metric, stable or growing.
And I am talking specifically about WoW-related reports, not Blizzard's other games, but the specific WoW points.

That "weebo size hole" in the hull of Blizz will be up for scrutiny once the quarterly comes around. That, and a lot of it comes from idiots taking 3rd party "numbers" (that they don't have in any shape or form) at face value. No different from any other point since Legion where people pretended that the game's performing worse than it actually is, in other words.

- - - Updated - - -

Rewards are indeed content and the arguments presented in that particular thread were unconvincing. People were literally arguing content is only something you do and not something you consume. Art, music, story all not content so some dumb arbitrary point could be made.

WoD was bad because it let you raid log and the rest of the game was essentially worthless. The response to this was AP, a 180 degree change. Ipso facto.

I'm convinced whats best for the game is for you to feel forced. And the more forced the better because it just means the game offers more for other people. If theirs a work around I'd be all for it but I'm dubious of that to be honest since all the proposed ones involve fucking with other peoples rewards so you don't feel put out. I'd rather they just isolate raids to not include power.

Yep, WoD was the proof of how they can drive players away through boredom and the raid-or-die mentality in design.

Legion? BfA? SL? Not so much. They did drive me away through burnout, but not boredom.

[Crimson Spears]

Rewards are indeed content and the arguments presented in that particular thread were unconvincing. People were literally arguing content is only something you do and not something you consume. Art, music, story all not content so some dumb arbitrary point could be made.

WoD was bad because it let you raid log and the rest of the game was essentially worthless. The response to this was AP, a 180 degree change. Ipso facto.

I'm convinced whats best for the game is for you to feel forced. And the more forced the better because it just means the game offers more for other people. If theirs a work around I'd be all for it but I'm dubious of that to be honest since all the proposed ones involve fucking with other peoples rewards so you don't feel put out. I'd rather they just isolate raids to not include power.

I think that is also why you are seeing so many of wow's competitors slowly coming into the light. If another company can get down isntanced content as well as wow (FF big weakness atm) It is going to be devastating for them.

Most people don't want to do chores especially in entertainment. They want to do what they enjoy. Eventually this mindset of "we can just force them to" will end up with them slowly getting chipped away at. I was willing to clear out shadowbringers in a effort to find solid group content... for people who enjoy world content and story FF is already ending their time in wow.

- - - Updated - - -

"An ever growing cash shop" makes it sound as though their cash shop is on the level of GW2.

It is not. A new mount every 6 months doesn't do jack shit to keep MAUs, the main metric, stable or growing.
And I am talking specifically about WoW-related reports, not Blizzard's other games, but the specific WoW points.

That "weebo size hole" in the hull of Blizz will be up for scrutiny once the quarterly comes around. That, and a lot of it comes from idiots taking 3rd party "numbers" (that they don't have in any shape or form) at face value. No different from any other point since Legion where people pretended that the game's performing worse than it actually is, in other words.

- - - Updated - - -



Yep, WoD was the proof of how they can drive players away through boredom.

Legion? BfA? SL? Not so much. They did drive me away through burnout, but not boredom.

Trying to compare a cash shop for a sub game with a cash shop in a buy once and your done is very disingenuous. I don't want to argue numbers neither of us have but I can't see annoying people as a positive plan for a business centered around entertainment....

[Skirdus]

My wife left me for Torghast

[Glorious Leader]

I think that is also why you are seeing so many of wow's competitors slowly coming into the light. If another company can get down isntanced content as well as wow (FF big weakness atm) It is going to be devastating for them.

Most people don't want to do chores especially in entertainment. They want to do what they enjoy. Eventually this mindset of "we can just force them to" will end up with them slowly getting chipped away at. I was willing to clear out shadowbringers in a effort to find solid group content... for people who enjoy world content and story FF is already ending their time in wow.

- - - Updated - - -



Trying to compare a cash shop for a sub game with a cash shop in a buy once and your done is very disingenuous. I don't want to argue numbers neither of us have but I can't see annoying people as a positive plan for a business centered around entertainment....

My understanding of FF, which is evidently wows biggest competition is that is basically offers the best gear or near to the best gear outside of the raid.