Why do people hate Torghast so much?

[Sariengrey]

why do we hate Torghast? why? ...dude because its sucks, that's why
Its pretty self explanatory.
One THE worst features ever added to WoW in its lifetime and I have been here since the beginning
...it just plain stinks

[Crimson Spears]

My understanding of FF, which is evidently wows biggest competition is that is basically offers the best gear or near to the best gear outside of the raid.

It kind of does? That doesn't really matter though its just gear. The big draw is its world content and its lack of bullshit systems like wow has. It just doesn't offer challenging enough content for the wow mythic crowd and the game moves a lot slower then wow in general.

[Kaleredar]

As you progress higher it doesn't get more "difficult" by merit of the complexity of encounters you face, it gets more "difficult" by just dumping more and more enemies on you that melee you for a higher and higher percentage of your total health until they end up one-shotting you if you haven't scaled the bejeezus out of your health.

The variable layouts aren't particularly interesting or meaningful and don't really change what you're doing, seeing as each corridor is populated by roughly the same six to eight or so enemy types.


But that's the case with pretty much all procedural-generated content in really any game. Torghast doesn't really "anger" me because... frankly, it's more or less exactly what I expected it to be.

[Rusken]

So I ask: Why do people hate Torghast? In Solo mode it is a very nice way to break the game and reach insane stats, in group mode in 9.1 it's actually engaging content, as long as voice coms are in the picture. It's quite literally an amalgamation of everything WoW has to offer - mob farming, resource gathering, a degree of exploration, bossfights and ability upgrades. In 1 activity. So why do people hate it so much?

Thank you for your time in reading thus far.

In Alpha and Beta testing it was shaping up to be the greatest thing WoW had ever seen. By the time the game actually launched it had devolved into a mandatory chore that some classes were literally incapable of soloing because their Anima Powers were just pure trash while some others (specifically Tanks) were able to mindlessly walk through it being an invincible god.

Then instead of making new interesting, strong powers for the classes struggling they just fucking nerfed the whole thing by like 70% and made it absolutely nothing but a boring, mandatory chore that everyone has to do.

I enjoyed it a lot at first, I mained a Prot Pally while I played SL and had as much fun as you describe stacking powers to have infinite Wings and Seraphim with no CD's flinging shields all over the place exploding huge packs of mobs, but after a few months of that the novelty wore off and it became mundane especially if I didn't get the right powers.

If it was more dynamic, with more room layouts and more enemy variants, was back at its launch difficulty level at least, and offered something other than a mandatory currency and some shitty cosmetics it would be great. I haven't played since February so I'm not sure if they've added much in terms of new rooms, enemies etc. But I do know the new scoring system for 9.1 seems awful for anyone who isn't playing a class with insane power combos.

[Crimson Spears]

In Alpha and Beta testing it was shaping up to be the greatest thing WoW had ever seen. By the time the game actually launched it had devolved into a mandatory chore that some classes were literally incapable of soloing because their Anima Powers were just pure trash while some others (specifically Tanks) were able to mindlessly walk through it being an invincible god.

Then instead of making new interesting, strong powers for the classes struggling they just fucking nerfed the whole thing by like 70% and made it absolutely nothing but a boring, mandatory chore that everyone has to do.

I enjoyed it a lot at first, I mained a Prot Pally while I played SL and had as much fun as you describe stacking powers to have infinite Wings and Seraphim with no CD's flinging shields all over the place exploding huge packs of mobs, but after a few months of that the novelty wore off and it became mundane especially if I didn't get the right powers.

If it was more dynamic, with more room layouts and more enemy variants, was back at its launch difficulty level at least, and offered something other than a mandatory currency and some shitty cosmetics it would be great. I haven't played since February so I'm not sure if they've added much in terms of new rooms, enemies etc. But I do know the new scoring system for 9.1 seems awful for anyone who isn't playing a class with insane power combos.

Alpha torghast could of gone down as mage tower 2.0 if blizzard wasn't so enthralled with content everyone had to clear. They blundered and butchered it so utterly I would rather they never try again at this point.

[Queen of Hamsters]

I think that is also why you are seeing so many of wow's competitors slowly coming into the light. If another company can get down isntanced content as well as wow (FF big weakness atm) It is going to be devastating for them.

Most people don't want to do chores especially in entertainment. They want to do what they enjoy. Eventually this mindset of "we can just force them to" will end up with them slowly getting chipped away at. I was willing to clear out shadowbringers in a effort to find solid group content... for people who enjoy world content and story FF is already ending their time in wow.

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Trying to compare a cash shop for a sub game with a cash shop in a buy once and your done is very disingenuous. I don't want to argue numbers neither of us have but I can't see annoying people as a positive plan for a business centered around entertainment....

I am not comparing them, I was saying that you were making it sound as if they're comparable by claiming that it's "ever growing"... With a new pet and mount now and then, which won't keep someone playing if they don't want to. L2R. I've seen 2 store mounts pass by since I unsubbed, and guess what? It didn't convince me to sub and pay extra for them.

You can believe whatever you want, it's been a successful business model since Legion. They came off BfA stronger than in a decade despite BfA being all about "annoying people". We don't have sub numbers, what we do have is official Quarterly reports and the latest one reported growth for the game.

Not liking the game as it currently is shouldn't come with immediate disregard for facts. That sort of thinking is what makes people take 3rd party numbers at face value because they mesh with feelings rather than reality.

The latest OFFICIAL report summarized: https://www.wowhead.com/news/activis...re-2000-322172

The store earns money, it can and does by no means carry the game the way subs do in terms of steady revenue, especially not with how rarely they add new stuff and how badly diversified it is, which is that way thanks to the sub existing in the first place.

That's all I've got to say on the matter, I ain't in the business of schooling people on how not to fall for conspiracy theories and "alternative facts".

[Crimson Spears]

I am not comparing them, I was saying that you were making it sound as if they're comparable by claiming that it's "ever growing"... With a new pet and mount now and then, which won't keep someone playing if they don't want to. L2R. I've seen 2 store mounts pass by since I unsubbed, and guess what? It didn't convince me to sub and pay extra for them.

You can believe whatever you want, it's been a successful business model since Legion. They came off BfA stronger than in a decade despite BfA being all about "annoying people". We don't have sub numbers, what we do have is official Quarterly reports and the latest one reported growth for the game.

Not liking the game as it currently is shouldn't come with immediate disregard for facts. That sort of thinking is what makes people take 3rd party numbers at face value because they mesh with feelings rather than reality.

That's all I've got to say on the matter, I ain't in the business of schooling people on how not to fall for conspiracy theories and "alternative facts".

It isn't a disregard for facts...they themselves have said the cash shop has been propping up revenue. I said I don't see that as sustainable and well I still don't. Even with carrying exploding eventually it will hit critical mass and collapse. To clarify by expanding I was referencing the growing number of things costing money. Not just mounts but pets, transmog, and toys. Never mind the increasing number of spam emails I get for their sales.

The titan hasn't been felled by any means but for the first time its staggering and slowing.

[Glorious Leader]

It kind of does? That doesn't really matter though its just gear. The big draw is its world content and its lack of bullshit systems like wow has. It just doesn't offer challenging enough content for the wow mythic crowd and the game moves a lot slower then wow in general.

So in other words it has a source of character progression outside the raid (gear) that the raid is theoretically balanced around and you don't feel compelled to pursue that content? why are wows non raid power advancement systems chores but not ff?

[Crimson Spears]

So in other words it has a source of character progression outside the raid (gear) that the raid is theoretically balanced around and you don't feel compelled to pursue that content? why are wows non raid power advancement systems chores but not ff?

The answer is simple it all ties into one another naturally. The problem with wow is it insists you repeat mindless content again and again for upgrades even at the highest level. In FF you just move on unless you want the cosmetics. It goes so far as to scale down your gear in its hardest modes to preserve the challenge of past bosses. The problem I have with wow is rather then naturally letting players progress they insist on dragging them into pointless chores.

[Advent]

The answer is simple it all ties into one another naturally. The problem with wow is it insists you repeat mindless content again and again for upgrades even at the highest level. In FF you just move on unless you want the cosmetics. It goes so far as to scale down your gear in its hardest modes to preserve the challenge of past bosses. The problem I have with wow is rather then naturally letting players progress they insist on dragging them into pointless chores.

Um... but tomestones give you good gear, which you kind of have to go through really dull dungeons each day to get. O_o

[cozzri]

Care to reply with arguments, such as the ones I laid out above? I clearly stated why and how I find Torghast to be a fun activity. It would be cool if you could do the same, so we can get a discussion going. That is what a forum is used for, since the times of the Ancient Romans (where the word comes from actually) when they thought up the concept.

From my experience with it, it's fun the first handful of times you do it progressing solo; then you find out you can do it with a group, handful of multiplayer play-throughs; then that's it, Torghast is finished, you won torghast. It's not a game mode that is terribly engaging; the rewards aren't too interesting and even if it was more challenging; the incentive just isn't there. Challenge modes felt way better in terms of accomplishment.

[cateran100]

What the title says. I main Guardian druid, which is a tanking spec. I find Torghast to be a lot of fun, due to the fact you can literally break the game. While doing my Endless Corridor runs, I reached a point where I had 85+ anima powers, 70% Versatility, 60% haste, 90% Mastery and 70% crit.

Torghast quite literally gives us the ability to BREAK THE GAME! I reached a boss with 6 million HP and downed it in 35 seconds. The amount of power my bear had at that point was batshit crazy.

9.1 made Torghast even better. I got some guildies (2 main DPSers from the raid team + a member's alt that he will reroll to in 9.1 as his main) so we can do Layer 9, when it was released. We spent THREE hours in Torghast and we didn't even realise how the time passed. We were all on discord, discussing, choosing Anima powers that had good synergy with what the rest of us had picked, and our 4th member who was on his alt was basicaly the group's "errand boy". As in, we'd enter a room, I would round up everything in it, mage and rogue mains would assist me in mowing them down and the hunter alt was running around opening chests, breaking jars, freeing souls and talking to quest NPC's. We really had a blast, it was good fun.

So I ask: Why do people hate Torghast? In Solo mode it is a very nice way to break the game and reach insane stats, in group mode in 9.1 it's actually engaging content, as long as voice coms are in the picture. It's quite literally an amalgamation of everything WoW has to offer - mob farming, resource gathering, a degree of exploration, bossfights and ability upgrades. In 1 activity. So why do people hate it so much?

Thank you for your time in reading thus far.

Go into an older raid and you can beat bosses with more health....and faster....

[Crimson Spears]

Um... but tomestones give you good gear, which you kind of have to go through really dull dungeons each day to get. O_o

They drop from pretty much anything end game I am not sure I understand the point you think your making.

[Advent]

They drop from pretty much anything end game I am not sure I understand the point you think your making.

The current-tier tomes don't drop from everywhere. The only way to get those is through roulettes, which means you're running what people here call "boring content" every day.

[Glorious Leader]

The current-tier tomes don't drop from everywhere. The only way to get those is through roulettes, which means you're running what people here call "boring content" every day.

which sounds fairly close to valor badge farming from the daily dungeons which people whined about and was eventually gutted cause "forced content". Everything old is fucking new again.

[Cracked]

Despite the reply "it's not fun" being entirely sufficient, I can tell you that it feels exactly the same every single time and 9.1 didn't improve that one bit. If anything, it's worse, because now most of my powers will only be useful for 1-2 floors, which means ramping powers are completely useless in most cases, even if I ignore shit powers like "wings for 30s after entering floor" existing.

In short, been there done that kind of thing. I want to get out as soon as I possibly can, it has 0 intrinsic gameplay appeal to me. If I wanted to be an overpowered "hero", I'd go farm old raids. There is no challenge. There is 0 risk of failure. And there is no reward that I can get for doing it well. So we do the bare minimum and we try to get it over with asap.

On top of that, the aesthetics are extremely bland and repetitive, I get that it might be so "lorewise", but come on, we are playing a game and it needs to give use something to look at. Endless gray and light blue are not enticing.

[Crimson Spears]

The current-tier tomes don't drop from everywhere. The only way to get those is through roulettes, which means you're running what people here call "boring content" every day.

Or you just do the group content and get equivalent rewards... again I am struggling to get your point.

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which sounds fairly close to valor badge farming from the daily dungeons which people whined about and was eventually gutted cause "forced content". Everything old is fucking new again.

The problem with valor is it got out of hand rapidly. It worked wonderfully in kara, kt, ssc but afterwards it crept out of control rapidly. One must respect the progression ladder. The big difference in ff is the difficulty is rather similar to start with its hardest content caps out at mid tier heroic raids bosses.

[epigramx]

Because Hades does it better, and the game is a chore. See you in next xpack and that if.

[Advent]

Or you just do the group content and get equivalent rewards... again I am struggling to get your point.

The point I'm trying to make is that the perceived need to do "mundane content" to stay relevant alongside high end raiding is still a thing in FFXIV.

[Glorious Leader]

The problem with valor is it got out of hand rapidly.

Their was no problem with valor. It was just alternate advancement for people who didn't want to have to raid. Which turned out to be alot of folks apparently.