Why do people hate Torghast so much?

[Crimson Spears]

The point I'm trying to make is that the perceived need to do "mundane content" to stay relevant alongside high end raiding is still a thing in FFXIV.

It really isn't though. You just move up the progression ladder still you stop farm a little then move on. you dont back track constantly.

[|Dexter|]

I can only give my reason, I just think it's so boring to do when I was in it I was like how many floors still to go, it's extremely boring, don't care about the powers at all, I only did the quest, the last one took hours had to stop midway and when I log back in I found out I had to start all over again... because seems Blizzard didn't think put in some mid save option... I screamed that last few floors. It was one of the factors that make me go... yeah I no longer enjoy this game anymore after years playing.

[Advent]

It really isn't though. You just move up the progression ladder still you stop farm a little then move on. you dont back track constantly.

I've always looked at it like the TBC gearing model. People throughout the expansion were running heroics to stay relevant back then. In FFXIV you're doing roulettes most of the time to supplement drops until you're in full savage gear.

[Crimson Spears]

Their was no problem with valor. It was just alternate advancement for people who didn't want to have to raid. Which turned out to be alot of folks apparently.

Problem was valor gave far to much for what it was. If it maxed out at normal it would of been alrightish. What works in one game wont work in another.

[ohwell]

... because it isn't fun.

So pretty much you just don't because it's the "cool" thing to do, hating on it. "Unfun" is not an argument as it can't be measured or quantified in any way and is so utterly subjective that the term means absolutely nothing in an argument.

[Glorious Leader]

Problem was valor gave far to much for what it was.

Define what is giving "far too much for what it was" because that very much sounds like the same complaint about being forced to do mundane world quest crap for AP.

[arkanon]

Counter question - why is anyone defending content that others simply say they don't enjoy or don't like? What is the positive outcome here by telling people who say "I don't like it" they are wrong? I don't personally think Rick and Morty has been funny since S2 - some random on the internet telling me im wrong and multiple reasons it is funny wont suddenly make me laugh at the next episode.

[Crimson Spears]

Define what is giving "far too much for what it was" because that very much sounds like the same complaint about being forced to do mundane world quest crap for AP.

In wow the game is designed in such a way that raids have multiple dps and heal checks each one you can beat makes the fight drastically easier. Unless FF has drastically changed since I last played you are limited to the tier before current for tombstones and it didn't include the weapons though I admit I am not certain on that last part.

Ideally you want each part of the content to build upon the prior. FF gets away with a lot of what it does because it isn't designed to be anywhere near as completive as wow is. Hell I don't think your technically allowed a dps meter in ff. It appeals to a different market and there isn't anything wrong with that.

[Theangryone]

It’s a formerly 6 level trash pull that relies on getting the right rng powers to allow you to complete the run and not wipe on overly tuned buggy bosses. That is, of course if you were running the right spec to allow you to do so. Also, as a tank your runs are easier and shorter than dps ques.

[Luxeley]

Nothing about it is enjoyable.

The mobs are tedious. The lower system is arbitrary horseshit. It takes forever and each floor is the same as the last.

And it's mandatory to run multiple times weekly, per active alt, or forget about doing meaningful content on that toon. Fuck that.

It's a stupid addition to the game and a poor excuse for content.

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I do raids over and over because the content is fun.

There's nothing enjoyable about Torghast. I'd rather be in an actual prison than spend any more time there.

I found the original version very enjoyable. I know I am not in the majority, but I like pressing satisfying buttons and immediate dmg increases.

[Tubben]

I like Torghast. I duo'ed the endless corridors together with an guildmate and we had lots of fun. We did 9.1 Torghast with an guildgroup and getting 5 stars was fun also. In short i really dont mind the weekly Torghast runs.

[Dejiko]

1: It`s tied to your player power and it`s not optional, sure you can decide not to progress your character by improving your ilvl but there are better games
with more fleshed out sideactivites, single player games tend to be better for exploration and messing about.

2: It`s not zany and unique enough, sure your abilities get disproportionately strong and you can run faster and such but why can`t you run on the walls?
Why can`t you mess around with gravity?
Why can`t you merge your spells with another class, imagine a Mage with a hunter pet for instance, a warrior feral druid, your abilities
would have an energy cost.
Why can`t you recruit followers inside Torghast, with their own temporary talent trees that affect your progression, maybe they could increase your
phantasm gain, maybe some would have a reputation tied to them, you`d meet them at regular intervals maybe even recruit them for outdoor assistance so on.

3: Not enough cosmetic rewards, maybe you could be rewarded with a toy that turns you into a mawrat for awhile.
Ideally there would be armor sets on offer, maybe you could even trade phantasm for them, for hunters you could buy a tome
that lets you tame some of the enemies in Torghast.

There`s plenty of ideas for it, it just seems like another throwaway piece of content like azerite islands or warfronts, it`s not designed with longevity in mind.

[Boddhi]

I wish they would have put the effort to develop Torghast in making the baseline single player wow experience something more than basically "Go to marked area on map, kill x baddies, heal/rescue y wounded goodies (but directly clicking them or selecting them and clicking an item you got for the quest)"

[Dalinos]

I don't mind Torghast - it's okay, feels like it could be better.

But what really gets me is OP's stubborn insistence that people justify why they do not like something, and then when they do explain it, he rejects their explanations.

Asking people to prove a negative (like "Prove why Torghast isn't fun") is ridiculous to begin with, but then rejecting any explanation that is given as though people not only have to explain their dislike, but have it approved is just... It's so on-brand for this community.

People can not like Torghast for any reason they see fit. I just wanted to know THOSE reasons. Saying "It isn't fun" is...not an objective reason. If I can make up a list on WHY I find Torghast fun, I assume people can make a list as to WHY they don't have fun. Many posters came up with legit reasons, such as:

1) Anima powers aren't good enough
2) They don't like the aesthetic of the place
3) They don't like the music of the place
4) They don't like the bosses have simple, straightforward mechanics
5) They don't like the amount of trash in the place

etc and so forth. THAT is what I wanted to promote with this thread, a discussion. Simply saying "I don't find it fun" adds absolutely nothing to the discussion. You're severely mistaken if you think if I want to force people to like Torghast - I don't give a shit if they like it or not, I wanted to know WHY they don't like it.

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It's a mandatory check-list. Players don't like that. When you log into retail the first thing is "what do I HAVE to do". If you were to log into Classic or BC the first thing is "what do I WANT to do". Huge difference.

I'm sorry, but this is simply un-true.

When you log into WoW TBC Classic, the FIRST thing you gotta do, is skip questing in every single area and dungeon grind. Why? 2 reasons. 1) Rep from dungeons only gets you to Honoured/Revered, so you keep the quests for when the rep they give ACTUALLY matters and 2) you wanna complete all quests at max level so you can get the 5k gold needed for epic flying.

2nd thing you HAVE to do? Start doing your Attunement quests. You ain't getting into Karazhan by simply showing up.

3rd thing you have to do? Start farming the same heroics, every day, for your pre-raid BIS. If you don't want to be a burden to your raid, that is. Noone wants Jim the Mage to show up to a KZ run with questing greens (now I know some questing greens are OP, like Manimal's Cinch for Feral Tanks, but that's an exception, not the rule).

4th thing you gotta do. Grind Aldor/Scryer rep for your shoulder enchant.

Off the top of my head that is four distinct things you HAVE to do if you ever dream of raiding in a serious guild in TBC Classic.

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Counter question - why is anyone defending content that others simply say they don't enjoy or don't like? What is the positive outcome here by telling people who say "I don't like it" they are wrong? I don't personally think Rick and Morty has been funny since S2 - some random on the internet telling me im wrong and multiple reasons it is funny wont suddenly make me laugh at the next episode.

My dude, stop trying to think I'm trying to change people's minds. I'm not. I'm just seeing Torghast hate everywhere, and wanted to know WHY. It is as simple as that, nothing less, nothing more. Elaborating the "It's no fun" argument like other posters have was the whole damn reason I made this thread. You're reading WAY too deeply between the lines. I don't care IF people like/dislike Torghast. I just wanted to know WHY. And I can safely say, because of other posters who took the time to express their thoughts and feelings, unlike you, I have finally understood the WHY.

[derekmmorgan94]

I really enjoyed it in the beginning. I just don't like having to repeat it as often as you have to. And it feels the same all too often. More powers. Randomize enemies/more enemies. New maps. I feel like it can be improved for sure and if it was not Blizzard I'd have more hope. Also it's way too easy and no mob or boss is as punishing as it should be. I'm beating floor 10s with 190 i-lvl. I'd enjoy if you could get more powers that changed how your spells work so it doesn't feel like the same thing over and over and you don't have just 1 build.

[Subzu]

Boring as fuck, forced to do, unbalanced mess.
Ofc OP is a tank and enjoys the turd.

[Dalinos]

Boring as fuck, forced to do, unbalanced mess.
Ofc OP is a tank and enjoys the turd.

But that's the thing man. I only play Bear druid. I don't have any other chars. I had no IDEA Anima Powers were so bad for some DPS specs, nor did I know DPSers had such a hard time in Torghast. How can I? I don't play DPS. That is the point of a FORUM. To DISCUSS. And this is what we are doing. Discussing. This was the WHOLE REASON of making this thread. I didn't have a measure of comparison, because I only play Tank, so I came here to find out what others are thinking.

Insulting me by saying "OFC he's a tank and enjoys the shit" says quite a bit about you.

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I really enjoyed it in the beginning. I just don't like having to repeat it as often as you have to. And it feels the same all too often. More powers. Randomize enemies/more enemies. New maps. I feel like it can be improved for sure and if it was not Blizzard I'd have more hope. Also it's way too easy and no mob or boss is as punishing as it should be. I'm beating floor 10s with 190 i-lvl. I'd enjoy if you could get more powers that changed how your spells work so it doesn't feel like the same thing over and over and you don't have just 1 build.

According to other posters who were in the Shadowlands Alpha and Beta, Torghast was WAY harder when it was first implemented. I think 1 poster mentioned a drop of 70% in terms of difficulty? Making something 70% easier was never a good solution for anything.

[Milfshaked]

Oh I dont give a shkt what you do or don't do. As far as I'm concerned they could make raiding entirely isolated from the rest of the game and i wouldnt care. What bothers is me is the expectation that the rest of the game is constantly balanced around raiding and more specifically the desire to simple raid log. And yes I didn't engage with a single thing you said because its garbage..

Ah, the ever typical elitist jerk that just hates casual players, I am just going to assume that you didnt engage with a single argument because you just cant stand people not playing the game in the way you want and spending 12 hours a day forcing themselves through chores.

Some of us just want to be able to log in for a short time and play a game and have fun.

[Powerogue]

The break the game power seems to vary wildly class to class and run to run. My WW monk is consistently nigh unstoppable while my outlaw rogue in the same gear is absolutely pathetic by comparison. Glad for the semi boa soul ash I suppose.

Mostly it's good in moderation but I hesitate at the thought of running it on a bunch of alts, it gets old. Same reason I preferred the eye of the jailer mechanic over not having it anymore as a cap on time spent on one type of content.

[Dalinos]

The break the game power seems to vary wildly class to class and run to run. My WW monk is consistently nigh unstoppable while my outlaw rogue in the same gear is absolutely pathetic by comparison. Glad for the semi boa soul ash I suppose.

Mostly it's good in moderation but I hesitate at the thought of running it on a bunch of alts, it gets old. Same reason I preferred the eye of the jailer mechanic over not having it anymore as a cap on time spent on one type of content.

The Monk-Rogue comparison is great! As someone who only plays 1 char and has no alts, I wouldn't imagine a leather-wearing DPSer that uses Energy as a resource would give such a vastly different experience in Torghast than another leather-wearing DPSer who uses Energy (and Chi) as a resource. Because I don't play those 2 classes.