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  1. #1

    If achievement points matter: they are detrimental: the game becomes un-reset-table

    Yeah I know some points are gone and replaced with feats of strength but that still leaves a ton of achievement points that you could have gotten more than TEN YEARS AGO and they are still counting and are being shown off in guild lists and trade chats; that even creeps into the most casual parts of the game; it turns even the simplest most casual activity from Vanilla like collecting a silly pet that does nothing into something "hard-core" you can show off for vanity on a trade chat (and vanity is the norm in people so that will affect most of them).

    What if you reset ALL achievement points every single expansion (just as you reset fighting power level) and leave them all as feats of strength; that will still leave people with vanity showing off their FoS but it will alleviate the problem enormously since it would be fair calling those inferior if they have no points (and they objectively are (e.g. Gladiator in 2014 is way less important than Gladiator in 2021 if you're about to play now)); I initially had that thought for a sort-of "WoW reboot" but it helps even in this way.

  2. #2
    Good thing they don't and have never mattered.
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

  3. #3
    No one in their right mind cares about achievment points.
    MMO-C should be glad that the British Empire is no more, because they'd want a piece of all the copium trade here.
    Angry players come to the forums to complain about the game... but what loser only comes to the forums to complain about the forums and its users?
    Felating Blizzard too eagerly may lead to oxygen deficiency and worst case asphyxiation. Long-term effects range from delusions up to cerebral necrosis.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    No one in their right mind cares about achievment points.
    i guess the game is FULL of not right minded people then ))

    but personaly i think those points should act as a currency to buy transmog or mounts or player housing stuff ( after they implement it ofc)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alvito View Post
    Good thing they don't and have never mattered.
    they still matter to many,but they would matter way more if we had competent and smart devs that would have actualy implemented uses for those points

  5. #5
    I can't imagine achievement points would ever be for anything but vanity or cosmetic rewards, if they were to ever 'matter'.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Alvito View Post
    Good thing they don't and have never mattered.
    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    No one in their right mind cares about achievment points.
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    i guess the game is FULL of not right minded people then ))

    but personaly i think those points should act as a currency to buy transmog or mounts or player housing stuff ( after they implement it ofc)

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    they still matter to many,but they would matter way more if we had competent and smart devs that would have actualy implemented uses for those points
    People like to PRETEND they don't matter. It makes them have the delusion that they are supposedly not vain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    I can't imagine achievement points would ever be for anything but vanity or cosmetic rewards, if they were to ever 'matter'.
    "anything but vanity" is the operating phrase: approximately ALL people are vain in reality (that's the MAIN reason competitions and races for the world-first and rankings etc. exist): hence it affects almost ALL people (even if they love to pretend they are so altruist supposedly).

  7. #7
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    People like to PRETEND they don't matter. It makes them have the delusion that they are supposedly not vain.
    I'm not pretending. I've never asked anyone else about their achievement points or whether they're even interested in them. I do not know or care about my own achievements. Frankly, when the toast pops up for an achievement I'm usually surprised that I got one.

    Don't assume that everyone thinks the same way. It's annoying and always wrong.
    “We live in a moment where everything immediately seems to default to outrage. There’s a kind of M.O. of either it’s exactly how I see it, or you’re my enemy.”

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    I'm not pretending. I've never asked anyone else about their achievement points or whether they're even interested in them. I do not know or care about my own achievements. Frankly, when the toast pops up for an achievement I'm usually surprised that I got one.

    Don't assume that everyone thinks the same way. It's annoying and always wrong.
    Yes and no; to be more specific on what I meant: perhaps the points themselves are not that important to most people but: there's a LOT of obvious vanity-sharing going around when people link an achievement about anything.
    Perhaps it would help if feats of strength in general were more strongly utilized and exposed easily as being "old news" because currently there's a lot group-making being done by using achievements that are ages-old/ancient.
    E.g. people still gate people outside of high level PvP because they first pick up Gladiators that got the title YEARS ago; it might be cool if the devs diminished that linked achievement; show it as "legacy" or something.
    Last edited by epigramx; 2021-07-07 at 07:43 AM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    "anything but vanity" is the operating phrase: approximately ALL people are vain in reality (that's the MAIN reason competitions and races for the world-first and rankings etc. exist): hence it affects almost ALL people (even if they love to pretend they are so altruist supposedly).
    ... So, what, you actually want the rewards for achievement points to reward power, you want to then be mad enough about it to complain it shouldn't be done that way, and instead of saying it shouldn't be done that way, you're saying it should be future proofed very convolutedly to have this weird reset thing just to accomodate people who may want power rewards from achievements to make them 'useful'?

    Like, frankly, gonna be honest, I don't see the appeal. I think it would just infuriate people who would feel forced to grind out achievements arbitrarily. It's another example of forcing people to do content they don't want to do. As optional content, that occasionally gives some cosmetic or vanity rewards like titles, rare mounts, etc., I think are way less prone to disaster than actually rewarding power from these kinds of things.

    We even have examples of Achievements rewarding convenience and power before, in terms of Pathfinder giving flight. By comparison, just rewarding flying mounts... like, historically, which was received better, just as a thought experiment -- correct, the mounts, the cosmetic and less influential rewards to power. Even as a very recent example in terms of new ideas for rewards implemented for achievements, the Night Warrior customization was a great way to incorporate the story into the achievement system while making a satisfying unlock. People loved that. It wasn't at all necessary, and didn't force people to do tons of difficult content to get power rewards that were otherwise necessary for progression to do and see and experience the things they care about.

    It may be unfortunate that achievement points feel useless currently, but completely overdoing it by having it reward power and revamping a system that is currently almost entirely harmless and no one is toxic about just seems like changing the game to incite hatred for no damn good reason. The payoff in this case doesn't seem even remotely worth it. Like, the hell would the goal here even be - to force people to see more content, as a way to reward people who do other content? Shouldn't doing other content for the joy of it, or for their own rewards, be better than arbitrarily rewarding through the achievement system? If the point here is to make all rewards come from achievements so that "you can pick what you do, as long as you do a total amount of activities to afford the reward," it kind of disguises it like giving people choice on what things to do to unlock rewards, but depending on how many achievement points people have to get for rewards outside or within their own set of activities it could be seen as a very unpleasant experience. Achievements currently are a pretty positive experience.

    I don't see the appeal of changing this system for something that seems, frankly, not worth it.

  10. #10
    I have over 600 days played on my warrior, over 30K achievement points and achievements are nowadays only reason, why I play this game continuously without interruption for over 15 years, so no, resetting achievements or turning them into FoS would make this game infinitely worse for a subset of players..

    It's ridiculous proposition in same way, as people, who suggest removing pet battles is the right way, just because they themselves don't play that part of a game.. This game attracts various groups of people and they all like to do different things.. I get to play all content thanks to achievements, that I'd never do otherwise...

    If it wasn't for them, I wouldn't be running thorghast or ember court, I'd be just spamming m+ every day.. This system lets you experience all parts of the game and is the best addition to WoW in last 15 years...

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by FFLover View Post
    I have over 600 days played on my warrior, over 30K achievement points and achievements are nowadays only reason, why I play this game continuously without interruption for over 15 years, so no, resetting achievements or turning them into FoS would make this game infinitely worse for a subset of players..

    It's ridiculous proposition in same way, as people, who suggest removing pet battles is the right way, just because they themselves don't play that part of a game.. This game attracts various groups of people and they all like to do different things.. I get to play all content thanks to achievements, that I'd never do otherwise...

    If it wasn't for them, I wouldn't be running thorghast or ember court, I'd be just spamming m+ every day.. This system lets you experience all parts of the game and is the best addition to WoW in last 15 years...
    I find your post so ironic. You first claim that "most people play different parts" and then you're the regular guy that does ALL achievements and ALL points and ALL parts of the game.
    It's pretty clear most haters of resets and haters of soft-reboots and people that effectively gate new players out of this game are people like you that want ALL points.

  12. #12
    I am Murloc! Chonar's Avatar
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    You really need this tangent to be its own seperate thread? All it does is just further prove how you're unwilling or incapable of understanding different strokes for different folks, especially in a 16/17-year old, massively multiplayer rpg.

    You ever heard of the term "time is money"? You probably have, we got goblins ingame after all.
    A better interpretation of the phrase is "time is value".
    Literally everything you put your time in, becomes valueable to you as a person. That's how that works. Hell, even Nefarian ontop of Blackrock mountain alludes to it "time does strange things to those who treat it as a currency" (eg: mortal beings).

    That's what achievement points are. A measuring tape for your the time (value) investment in your account, with only a rare few specific achievements being about exclusivity and/or difficulty. To call it just vanity is to do it a disservice.

    Having said all that, it doesn't matter for character power, nor should it ever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    "anything but vanity" is the operating phrase: approximately ALL people are vain in reality (that's the MAIN reason competitions and races for the world-first and rankings etc. exist):
    Can I get a video recording of you calling a team of rugby players 'vain' after they compete against their rivals?
    For science.
    Looking marvelous in velvet.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Chonar View Post
    Can I get a video recording of you calling a team of rugby players 'vain' after they compete against their rivals?
    For science.
    Yes they are vain. Why should I deny reality? Being polite about it doesn't stop it being true.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    Yes they are vain. Why should I deny reality? Being polite about it doesn't stop it being true.
    It not being true stops it from being true.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Calfredd View Post
    It not being true stops it from being true.
    Yes there is a tiny minority that is not vain. But Jesus Christs are very few in this world my friend.
    Most people you think are not vain are good ACTORS.

  16. #16
    I am Murloc! Chonar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    Yes they are vain. Why should I deny reality? Being polite about it doesn't stop it being true.
    Excellent, expecting the video in my inbox at the end of the week.
    Looking marvelous in velvet.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    I find your post so ironic. You first claim that "most people play different parts" and then you're the regular guy that does ALL achievements and ALL points and ALL parts of the game.
    It's pretty clear most haters of resets and haters of soft-reboots and people that effectively gate new players out of this game are people like you that want ALL points.
    Yes, most people play different parts of the game, that's why collecting achievement points is so unique, because it lets you see all of the content, while you have a goal that is bringing all these activities altogether.

    Yeah, I'm an absolute hater of resets and re-boots in MMO. Whole genre is based on idea of grinding and making your character bigger, better, more awesome in all the ways. You're proposing, that this effort of players goes to vain every patch/expansion pack, just so new players don't feel like they have to earn the rewards? You'd definitely fit in with current development team, with their love for brutal catch-ups, skipping content and resetting gear and all the systems, just so new players can be offline for 6 months and be raiding the same week they return to game...

    I'm okay with game being made easier in later patches for newcomers and returning players, but there needs to be a balance... Soft resets don't fit into this genre... You can do season reset on games like Diablo or MOBAs, but MMOs are based on people continually working on their characters and getting rewarded for it in the long term...

  18. #18
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Only through the claims of achievements can we see who really defeated the game but else, the points do not matter much.

    Resetting the achievement points will offer nothing for an expansion.

    Resetting the points would just remove all previous expansion achievements so that you may only earn for the main expansion, or reset the points and you may only earn points from achievements you have not yet completed in an attempt to have value to the points - by doing that, you would make it unfair for a person who does complete achievements vs. a person who hardly does in new expansions.
    Stuff can be fixed, just get enough glue or duct tape!
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    I'm not pretending. I've never asked anyone else about their achievement points or whether they're even interested in them. I do not know or care about my own achievements. Frankly, when the toast pops up for an achievement I'm usually surprised that I got one.

    Don't assume that everyone thinks the same way. It's annoying and always wrong.
    have you ever done anything with the goal of just getting an achvment?

  20. #20
    I haven't paid attention to them in years, past Pathfinder requirements. I'd always hoped like others said that they would have been turned into some sort of cosmetic currency. I see no point in resetting them.

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