Sylvanas’ Culpability *spoilers*

[Nerovar]

That's precisely what I was talking about. The act of helping us alone will itself redeem Sylvanas, brush everything under the carpet and the plot will contort itself so that Sylvanas will face no repercussions. No one on the good guys side ever does in Warcraft. Especially if they are of the pro-Blanduin variety of good guys.

Maybe they'll turn Tyrande into a villain over this as a bonus meme.

[Ivarr]

This thread has definitely delivered.

The nerdrage at peoples' headcanon not being confirmed, the new headcanon being spun. It's just wonderful to see.

"Hahaha look at all these people being passionate."

[Super Dickmann]

This whole time, Danuser has actually been Sylvanas in disguise. I mean, she's a narcissistic dictator--do you really think she wouldn't be utterly obsessed with herself? Think, Dickmann, think!

It all checks out. We all thought he wanted to hook up with Sylvanas, but he actually was Sylvanas all along and this story is electronic masturbation.

I mean, that last part isn't really a surprise, but the reasoning is new. And in any case I don't think he's Nathanos either, he sees himself as the Jailer - both are bald men who control Sylvanas to her detriment after all.

Also, Sylvanas will not suffer any repercussions for this and Tyrande won't be villain-batted over it either, she'll forgive Sylvanas because it wasn't her, it was the Blue Man. Pin it, it'll happen. Remember AU!Grom and the Draenei cheering him on after he piled their corpses sky high, fed their souls to Gul'dan to power his portal to invade a world he knew fuck all about. Remember Illidan and how the Lightforged just meekly went along with him after he lasered their godhead. Sylvanas will walk in their footsteps. Likely so will Arthas and the two will quip at each other in 9.2 while handing out daily quests.

[Ivarr]

Maybe they'll turn Tyrande into a villain over this as a bonus meme.

Tyrande has been manipulating the Jailor to manipulate Sylvanas this whole time.

[Le Conceptuel]

It all checks out. We all thought he wanted to hook up with Sylvanas, but he actually was Sylvanas all along and this story is electronic masturbation.

I mean, that last part isn't really a surprise, but the reasoning is new. And in any case I don't think he's Nathanos either, he sees himself as the Jailer - both are bald men who control Sylvanas to her detriment after all.

Also, Sylvanas will not suffer any repercussions for this and Tyrande won't be villain-batted over it either, she'll forgive Sylvanas because it wasn't her, it was the Blue Man. Pin it, it'll happen. Remember AU!Grom and the Draenei cheering him on after he piled their corpses sky high, fed their souls to Gul'dan to power his portal to invade a world he knew fuck all about. Remember Illidan and how the Lightforged just meekly went along with him after he lasered their godhead. Sylvanas will walk in their footsteps. Likely so will Arthas and the two will quip at each other in 9.2 while handing out daily quests.

The image of Arthas and Sylvanas casually sassing one another would be nonsense if not for the fact we did the same thing with Maiev and Illidan.

[Mehrunes]

Are you certain? Naïve of me, perhaps, but I'd assume they'd at least make some effort to tie up the loose end. I'd presume the Forsaken wouldn't welcome her back, so where would Sylvie go?

There will be no loose end to tie up once Sylvanas will be considered redeemed, which she will be when she helps us save reality from the gimp-lord. At which point they Forsaken will build her a palace. And the Night Elves will fund it.

Maybe they'll turn Tyrande into a villain over this as a bonus meme.

Nah, I think this is how Sylvanas vs Tyrande storyline will end:

Nah, the Night Warrior storyline is pretty much perfect as it is. The only venue of upgrading it further is to have Tyrande learn about the amazing story bit of Sylvanas' soul being split by Frostmourne. After which she'd apologize Sylvanas for judging her too harshly while not having all of the information and then ask Elune to turn her into a Blood Elf so she could atone for that.

Firstly, it fits the deep message of how everyone should hold hands and sing kumbaya together that Warcraft strives for. Secondly, it's even more insulting to the Night Elves, which also looks like focal point of WoW's writing. Thirdly, it's monumentally more stupid and if you can expect one thing from WoW's lore is that it will always pursue the stupidest path there is.

[Super Dickmann]

The image of Arthas and Sylvanas casually sassing one another would be nonsense if not for the fact we did the same thing with Maiev and Illidan.

At last you truly see. Imagine the quips. Imagine the excitement of seeing Arthas in an HD model telling you to collect 12 First One Droppings to up your rep.

[VladlTutushkin]

I meant it more in the context that, if Galen Marek chooses to kill Vader everyone he cares about dies, he gets scorched and turned into a semi-machine like Vader was enslaved to the Emperor's whims. And Vader's redemption, in the canonical timeline is on a more personal level, where he never did anything to redeem himself, in the eyes of the galaxy at large.

And while it's true that she can fit that archetype I'm inclined to believe that it'd be a waste to axe her, in the long run. As a storyarc i find it more interesting, when characters can't just take the "noble suicide" option and have to work for it. For one it leaves room for further character development and it also leaves more room for interesting options down the line like saving Aleria from the Void, whenever that storyarc rolls around. I agree she is definately going to be out of the spotlight for some time after the xpac concludes regardless of the fine details.


Not to mention the characters present are Thrall, whose entire character is basically based on rehabilitation, Bolvar, who probably has the best idea what kind of difference the soul can make and Jaina, who has become a bit more wholesome after her BfA arc and likely could be talked down, by the other two, with the additional incentive of Sylvanas having more insight into the Jailer's inner workings. (That said i do find it amusing Vereesa knew the Sylvanas we had was basically the evil twin, for decades and told literally noone, in all that time.)

And you dont think that Alliance will riot outright and throw Anduin out because he spared a certified genocidal maniac?

And not to mention that Sylvanas now without Jailer's protection and within Tyrande's reach.

- - - Updated - - -

Fuck no. FUCK NO. It's precisely because he is what is she should have NEVER trusted him. It doesn't make sense for her to put her blind trust in a powerful, seemingly malevolent entity. And he didn't even fucking "trick" her. He was pretty fucking honest with his intentions, as far as literal Satans go. He didn't mind control her, he didn't blackmail her, he just spun a tale and Sylvanas just went with it, no questions asked. They won't ever show how that deal went about because they literally can't, there's just no way of portraying something like that without it turning into a fullblown parody. And if other NPCs could tell at first glance that Jailer is up to no good, why couldn't Sylvanas? She's a fucking asshole, it takes one to know one. Because she's a grade A cunt, she should've seen through the Jailer right away. It's just completely wrong for her not to. She didn't even consider the possibily? Like, just in case, worst case scenario? It's just fucking immpossible, plain and simple.

Just fucking think about it. Just think about it. It's not some petty crime, we're talking about remaking the fucking reality here. The sheer fucking magnitude of that endeavour. The sheer fucking scale of that shit. You don't go into something like that without spending at least 5 minutes of some careful consideration. You don't just go about remaking the fucking cosmos without some planning, you don't do that if you're not pretty fucking convinced in your ideals. Few fucking years has Sylvanas been serving.. oh pardon, working with the Jailer. Few years to think, to asses the risks and think things through. Countless instances of Arthas-like behaviour, throwing the S word around, and nope. It all was forgotten. Blizz act like she's traumatised and the sheer mention of the word "serve" reawakens her trauma when they had her throw that word around like it means nothing. It doesn't work that way. You can't have cake and eat it too.

Don't try to justify it. No matter how you try to spin it, it's bad. Bad. BAD! Bad and fucked three ways from sunday.


Oh man, I have much more to say, but I won't. It's not worth it. I owe it to myself to just move on as soon as it's possible.

Because she is fucken stupid, gullible and has worst character judgement abilities then a ten year old... Truly a "mirror" of her fans.

Infracted.

[Mihalik]

So, Sylvanas is either a gullible idiot or a sockpuppet. Honest to god, I don't know which is worse.

We had a long line of Horde leaders whose excuse for everything was "Demons made me do it" followed by "Daddy didn't love me enough made me do it" to now going back to the "Devil made me do it".

[Jackstraw]

And you dont think that Alliance will riot outright and throw Anduin out because he spared a certified genocidal maniac?

And not to mention that Sylvanas now without Jailer's protection and within Tyrande's reach.

Hope you're ready fam. The absolute forgiveness is coming.

[VladlTutushkin]

Hope you're ready fam. The absolute forgiveness is coming.

Oh i know it will. But this time it will be just out of the realm of "not even closely believable" and in the realm of "fuck this shit we're out". WoW subscribers exodus will continue and only get worse.

If they want the game to be their own fanfiction then sure, but they will be only ones playing it.

[Myradin]

Do we actually know her other half is some good, innocent soul?

When Uther got split in half one side was just grumpier than the other about what happened, and this could have easily been because he was given a way to get revenge as opposed to being rendered effectively useless. He joined the forsworn because honestly the Kyrians are a pretty sinister lot. And then when he learned the Forsworn were bad he ditched them anyway.

Both Uther halves were effectively the same person, just slightly different due to their experiences after being severed.

So who's to say Sylv's other half isn't as bad if not worse?

[Nerovar]

Likely so will Arthas and the two will quip at each other in 9.2 while handing out daily quests.

This will be Broken Shore/Cathedral of Eternal Night all over again...

Do we actually know her other half is some good, innocent soul?

When Uther got split in half one side was just grumpier than the other about what happened, and this could have easily been because he was given a way to get revenge as opposed to being rendered effectively useless. He joined the forsworn because honestly the Kyrians are a pretty sinister lot. And then when he learned the Forsworn were bad he ditched them anyway.

Both Uther halves were effectively the same person, just slightly different due to their experiences after being severed.

So who's to say Sylv's other half isn't as bad if not worse?

The fact that she immediately started caring about the world likely means that it was the good part of her soul. Also Christie Golden liked a tweet that speculated about the Jailer giving Sylvanas her soul back so she could feel bad about the things she had done.

[Soon-TM]

They literally went the kerrigan route with her, step by step. So I won't be surprised if Sylvanas replaces Mr proper at the end of this all

I can already smell it, there must always be... A Jailor.

[Ivarr]

Remember Illidan and how the Lightforged just meekly went along with him after he lasered their godhead.

Oh fuck I forgot that. I loved the part where Illidan killed the Naaru. But then...nothing. No consequences, no vendetta. No tensions within the Alliance. Just a pretty cinematic.

[Nerovar]

Oh fuck I forgot that. I loved the part where Illidan killed the Naaru. But then...nothing. No consequences, no vendetta. No tensions within the Alliance. Just a pretty cinematic.

Illidan's aura of smugness protects him from all consequences of his actions.

[Mihalik]

Hope you're ready fam. The absolute forgiveness is coming.

Aye.

Sylvanas Windrunner Regent of Stormwind and High Regent of the Alliance until we can "rescue" Anduin. Coming soon to WoW near you.

And everyone is going to be OK with that. Lul.

[Sorrowseer]

Whether or not she apologizes, she will be redeemed because the writers are biased towards her.

I mean at this point I can see them writing the other characters forgetting the past and being sympathetic towards her simply due to the writers lacking any consistent characterization, exactly the way they handled Tyrande's Night Warrior arc and literally going nowhere with it. At this point, Tyrande completely forgiving Sylvanas can and will be a thing because that's the direction the story is going.

Objectively speaking, we know the writers are biased, so expecting any moderate outcome is foolish.

All we have to do is look at Grom hellscream, legion or not that monster killed untold numbers. Then he is treated as a hero at the end of WoD, it disgusts me.

[Smallfruitbat]

Sylvanas is a cash cow, wherever they go with the story telling -that will be the motive. 'What will make more people like Sylvanas and buy statues and bobble heads?'

[VinceVega]

If that same someone caused the deaths of tens of thousands of innocents - mental health issues or not - I would want them to be given the death sentence.

Being mentally ill does not pardon you from committing crimes on that kind of scale.

Well tbf she did not do that alone. It is like saying Hitler was alone responsible for the holocaust.

The complete horde leadership was nearly completly in favour of everything she has done. There was only a resistance because of Suarfang.

But they get to be absolved?

Being mentally ill is not quite right in this case though as the effect of having your sould ripped apart is not quite something we have IRL.
It could basically be mindcontroll or you could be a completly different person.
There are tons of books who talk about beings who completly lost theior moral compas and only work for one goal who would have never done this if hteir soul was whole.

Sylvanns was a victim as much as a perpetrator. IMHO you have t consider this.

ALSO: think this whole situation is one of the most intersting things that happend in wow in a decade. This actually is hard to quantify as black and white. Good or evil. She did horrible things. But was she her herself? Are you the same person if half of you is missing?
Everybody jumps in defence of arthas who was basically in the same situation but sylvanas does not deserve the same?