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  1. #401
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    You have failed constantly to prove that Hope growing was a plot hole at every turn and rather than admit you are wrong or that you don't have an argument.
    You pull this crap.
    forsooth What else can a mere man do when a god shines down from the heavens with the divine wisdom to determine what is objectify right and wrong the blinding light of what is and isn’t a fact.

    You have made your point clear only your divine self can ever be correct as you shape the laws of the universe it self.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  2. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    forsooth What else can a mere man do when a god shines down from the heavens with the divine wisdom to determine what is objectify right and wrong the blinding light of what is and isn’t a fact.

    You have made your point clear only your divine self can ever be correct as you shape the laws of the universe it self.
    I have asked you to prove your point. I have pointed to how you are flawed.
    And rather than address my point, you treat anyone who argues you were wrong as they are an idiot.
    Grow up.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  3. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    I have asked you to prove your point. I have pointed to how you are flawed.
    And rather than address my point, you treat anyone who argues you were wrong as they are an idiot.
    Grow up.
    oh how you did oh Heavenly Father, when the question of forgotten plot points arose you smote it down with a declaration that it wasn’t forgotten and that was a fact! When the doubt of quality writing leaving out plot points never to be seen again was raised you burned it from the world with the might of claiming it was the objectively right thing to do! When the unexplained wonders of the world was brought up you unraveled there LIES with the commandment of “the characters know so we don’t have to” and such all were stricken dumb and deaf at such great and un doubtable wisdom!

    Ok the mods can infract me now I’m done.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  4. #404
    Scarab Lord Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    oh how you did oh Heavenly Father, when the question of forgotten plot points arose you smote it down with a declaration that it wasn’t forgotten and that was a fact! When the doubt of quality writing leaving out plot points never to be seen again was raised you burned it from the world with the might of claiming it was the objectively right thing to do! When the unexplained wonders of the world was brought up you unraveled there LIES with the commandment of “the characters know so we don’t have to” and such all were stricken dumb and deaf at such great and un doubtable wisdom!

    Ok the mods can infract me now I’m done.
    Because all that matters is the characters know the status of the van and know it is not an option.
    It does not matter at that point if it was forgotten/left behind, destroyed, with Happy's corpse, etc ...

    All that matters to the plot is that the van is not an option. The why it is not an option is plot irrelevant.
    The van was never a plot point in the first place.

    It is perfectly valid to ask "What happened to the van?" or "Why did Hope choose to grow?" It is wrong to say it is a plot hole because Hope chose to grow rather than use tech to shrink everyone.
    Last edited by Darththeo; 2021-09-10 at 06:11 PM.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  5. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    forsooth What else can a mere man do when a god shines down from the heavens with the divine wisdom to determine what is objectify right and wrong the blinding light of what is and isn’t a fact.

    You have made your point clear only your divine self can ever be correct as you shape the laws of the universe it self.
    I have no skin in the game, but.......

    You declare something to be a plot hole.
    Someone else says it isn't.

    How can you imply that person is arrogant enough to decree something is right or wrong, while you're doing literally the exact same thing?
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  6. #406
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    I have no skin in the game, but.......

    You declare something to be a plot hole.
    Someone else says it isn't.

    How can you imply that person is arrogant enough to decree something is right or wrong, while you're doing literally the exact same thing?
    Simple Really I never said anything was a fact or was objectively right or wrong where they did.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  7. #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Simple Really I never said anything was a fact or was objectively right or wrong where they did.
    You do know we can go back and look at your posts right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    It’s not about making the best choices all the time it’s about not leaving huge plot holes in the story by forgetting what you built up earlier.

    Them splitting up isn’t the best choice but it makes sense but them just completely forgetting that shrinking is a thing reeks of them not thinking through things they built up.
    And even before then:

    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    The zombie episode was rather nonsensical.

    Hope grows for no reason instead of just shrinking every one and flying with the cape.

    Ants can wipe out zombies in seconds yet are never used again.

    The zombies are smart enough to use there powers yet hopes parents never show up again when they would be the most dangerous.


    The episode feels like some one came up with plot but didn’t actually go over how it should play out to actually make sense and just pushed ahead.
    Seriously, why lie?

    And that is ignoring you are saying these are plot holes and bad writing numerous times. You did it. Don't lie about it.
    Last edited by Darththeo; 2021-09-10 at 06:26 PM.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  8. #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    You do know we can go back and look at your posts right?
    Yes that’s my opinion where did I say it was objective like you did here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    And what you want would objectively make the story worse. You add unnecessary exposition to explain every plot point regardless of the overall relevance.

    And, no, it isn't bad writing just because you want every little detail explained.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  9. #409
    Scarab Lord Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Yes that’s my opinion where did I say it was objective like you did here?
    Yes, because what you are arguing for objectively makes the story worse. There is no natural point for them to bring up the van at any point in their conversation and you want exposition just dropped into the story to tell you explicitly why they didn't shrink.

    That is objectively worse than what we got. I am sorry you cannot understand unneeded exposition that has zero impact on the plot makes a story worse.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  10. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Yes, because what you are arguing for objectively makes the story worse. There is no natural point for them to bring up the van at any point in their conversation and you want exposition just dropped into the story to tell you explicitly why they didn't shrink.

    That is objectively worse than what we got. I am sorry you cannot understand unneeded exposition that has zero impact on the plot makes a story worse.
    And thank you for giving me an on page example for my answer to Bodakane‘S question.
    Last edited by Lorgar Aurelian; 2021-09-10 at 06:34 PM.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  11. #411
    Scarab Lord Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    And thank you for giving me an on page example for my answer to question.
    Well, given you can't help to lie about what you did.

    "I never said objective therefore I am not arguing for my view being a fact. Please ignore I declare these things to be plot holes."
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  12. #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Well, given you can't help to lie about what you did.

    "I never said objective therefore I am not arguing for my view being a fact. Please ignore I declare these things to be plot holes."
    Yes I see them as plot holes that doesn’t make my views universal nor have I ever pretended they were unlike you.

    I mean I did a whole thing about mocking you because you’re acting your your views are facts did you really not get any of that?
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  13. #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Yes I see them as plot holes that doesn’t make my views universal nor have I ever pretended they were unlike you.

    I mean I did a whole thing about mocking you because you’re acting your your views are facts did you really not get any of that?
    Because they are factually not plot holes. So you are angry that I am pointing out your opinion is factually wrong?

    By that logic, if I said "Cake is healthy food, because to me it is healthy." I have a right to mock people who point out my opinion is factually wrong?

    On more than one occasion, I even stated to you that I have no problem with you wanting to know what happened with the van or wanting to know why they didn't shrink. I objected to you calling them plot holes or things that "didn't make sense."
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  14. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Because they are factually not plot holes. So you are angry that I am pointing out your opinion is factually wrong?
    Again thanks for giving me another example for Bodakane‘s Question.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  15. #415
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Again thanks for giving me another example for Bodakane‘s Question.
    Plot hole has a definition.
    How you are using it isn't in line with the definition.

    Them not using the van again isn't plot inconsistent because for all intents and purposes for the plot is they don't have it.
    Hope growing rather than shrinking achieves the same plot goal.

    These things are by definition not inconsistent.

    Essentially you are saying I must accept your definition over the accepted one and then saying I am the one in the wrong here.

    Again.

    Person: Cake is healthy food because to me it is healthy.
    Person B: Actually cake isn't healthy because it doesn't ...

    To you, person B is the arrogant one.
    Last edited by Darththeo; 2021-09-10 at 06:49 PM.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  16. #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Plot hole has a definition.
    How you are using it isn't in line with the definition.

    Them not using the van again isn't plot inconsistent because for all intents and purposes for the plot is they don't have it.
    Hope growing rather than shrinking achieves the same plot goal.

    These things are by definition not inconsistent.

    Essentially you are saying I must accept your definition over the accepted one and then saying I am the one in the wrong here.

    Again.

    Person: Cake is healthy food because to me it is healthy.
    Person B: Actually cake isn't healthy because it doesn't ...

    To you, person B is the arrogant one.
    what ever you say oh heavily father.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  17. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    what ever you say oh heavily father.
    I am sorry you can't accept that you were wrong to call them plot holes because it hurts your feelings.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  18. #418
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Yes I see them as plot holes that doesn’t make my views universal nor have I ever pretended they were unlike you.

    I mean I did a whole thing about mocking you because you’re acting your your views are facts did you really not get any of that?
    Teacher: OK class, lets talk about some of the plot points in the episode.
    Student 1: A zombie virus was brought back from the quantum realm.
    Student 2: Most of the Avengers have been turned into zombies and pose a significant threat to the heroes left alive.
    Student 3: The Vision is hiding a secret within the army base.
    Lorgar: The van!
    Class: ...
    Teacher: Did they introduce the van as essential to the plot? Did they explicitly take the time to talk about it being their best method of avoiding zombies and essential to their survival? Did it serve a purpose other than to tee up a couple humorous moments like exploding a zombie and poking fun at Happy's role as chauffeur?
    Lorgar: I like vans!
    Teacher: Thank you, Lorgar. Now how about you get back to your coloring book so the rest of us can have a real discussion. Anyway, lets talk about any symbolism in the episode.
    Lorgar: The van!
    Teacher: Oh for fucks sake...

  19. #419
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    Teacher: OK class, lets talk about some of the plot points in the episode.
    Student 1: A zombie virus was brought back from the quantum realm.
    Student 2: Most of the Avengers have been turned into zombies and pose a significant threat to the heroes left alive.
    Student 3: The Vision is hiding a secret within the army base.
    Lorgar: The van!
    Class: ...
    Teacher: Did they introduce the van as essential to the plot? Did they explicitly take the time to talk about it being their best method of avoiding zombies and essential to their survival? Did it serve a purpose other than to tee up a couple humorous moments like exploding a zombie and poking fun at Happy's role as chauffeur?
    Lorgar: I like vans!
    Teacher: Thank you, Lorgar. Now how about you get back to your coloring book so the rest of us can have a real discussion. Anyway, lets talk about any symbolism in the episode.
    Lorgar: The van!
    Teacher: Oh for fucks sake...
    Pretty much. People keep begging to be spoon fed information about every little detail when the overall story doesn’t have the time to do so. It’s like a 4-year old asking why about every single thing.

  20. #420
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    Teacher: OK class, lets talk about some of the plot points in the episode.
    Student 1: A zombie virus was brought back from the quantum realm.
    Student 2: Most of the Avengers have been turned into zombies and pose a significant threat to the heroes left alive.
    Student 3: The Vision is hiding a secret within the army base.
    Lorgar: The van!
    Class: ...
    Teacher: Did they introduce the van as essential to the plot? Did they explicitly take the time to talk about it being their best method of avoiding zombies and essential to their survival? Did it serve a purpose other than to tee up a couple humorous moments like exploding a zombie and poking fun at Happy's role as chauffeur?
    Lorgar: I like vans!
    Teacher: Thank you, Lorgar. Now how about you get back to your coloring book so the rest of us can have a real discussion. Anyway, lets talk about any symbolism in the episode.
    Lorgar: The van!
    Teacher: Oh for fucks sake...
    More like.

    Me: The ability to Shrink mixed with the ability to fly lets them by past any zombie's horde without any hero's in it.
    Teacher: ah but do they have both of those thing's
    Me: of course they do with doctor strange's cape they have an unlimited fly time with the capability to carry a fully grown mans weight and as was show cased earlier in the episode they can fall fit into hope's Van which can shrink.
    Teacher: what happened to the van though.
    Me: don't know they never bring it up again that's why its a plot hole.

    The special kids passing by in the hall: BuT ThE ChRacters KnOW WHy iTs NoT tHeRE so We DoNT HaVE to.
    before being scooted to there special ed class.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

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