Marvel What If…?

[Egomaniac]

And that so-called heavyweight contender...that first pic?

Is countered by Daredevil...landing repeated blows on Spider-Man without so much as wincing.

Wouldn't surprise me. A lot of writers have this ridiculous belief that the 100lbs weakling can trade punches with the 270lbs raw-boned brawler.

Just saying.

Also, Peter Parker is not 270 pounds.

Anyway...this isnt a place to discuss comic book inconsistency....

[Shadowferal]

Anyway...this isnt a place to discuss comic book inconsistency....

You don't need to be 270lbs. You just need the musculoskeletal structure to bench a lot of weight. In Spidey's case we're talking 10 tons. His relaxed strength has to be far than most humans can hope to move. In Loki's case, that would be 3x that.
I mentioned Firelord earlier, and the fact that he defeated himself. (All he had to do was go nova) Spidey knew he was outclassed...firelord just let his ego get the better of him.

The upshot is why...why isn't the inconsistency bothering most people?

[Egomaniac]

You don't need to be 270lbs. You just need the musculoskeletal structure to bench a lot of weight. In Spidey's case we're talking 10 tons. His relaxed strength has to be far than most humans can hope to move. In Loki's case, that would be 3x that.
I mentioned Firelord earlier, and the fact that he defeated himself. (All he had to do was go nova) Spidey knew he was outclassed...firelord just let his ego get the better of him.

The upshot is why...why isn't the inconsistency bothering most people?

Firelord should be able to shrug off those hits though, according to your own logic. That's why I brought it up.

And, once again, in loki's case...he hasn't been shown to be a 30 tonner in the MCU....only in the comics.

The inconsistency doesn't bother people because it's always been that way. One writer will have one idea of how things should work...the next writer will have a different idea. We don't expect our comic book writers to hold doctorates in the sciences. We just want them to write an entertaining story.

[Shadowferal]

Firelord should be able to shrug off those hits though, according to your own logic. That's why I brought it up.

Spidey is nailing him dozens of times/min; hitting him as hard as he can. And Firelord's strength level is 40 tons. So knocking him unconscious is doable.

And, once again, in loki's case...he hasn't been shown to be a 30 tonner in the MCU....only in the comics.

Yea...and in the comics he's 525 lbs.
Again the mcu is all about giving convenient human frailty to beings that shouldn't have them. And strangely enough we can understand why he went "quietly" in the Avengers movie. (Part of a ruse) it's an example of good writing to keep the big bads in check in a clever way. No one would believe the "soldier" could do so. (Cap wasn't moving this guy much at all) But the firepower of Iron man? Even...me, at my most comicbook nerdiest could swallow that for the sake of the moment's continuity.

- - - Updated - - -

The inconsistency doesn't bother people because it's always been that way. One writer will have one idea of how things should work...the next writer will have a different idea. We don't expect our comic book writers to hold doctorates in the sciences. We just want them to write an entertaining story.

And this why you get Game of Thrones season shit.

[Darththeo]

And this why you get Game of Thrones season shit.

As weird as it sounds, a measure of inconsistency is required to be believable. People in reality are not consistent, therefor if something is too consistent it becomes unbelievable. As we know circumstances matter, and slight differences could potentially alter results.

Game of Thrones Final Season they tossed consistency completely out the window and had characters act in ways that made little sense to what they did. They had toss character growth out the window just to shock people.

[Shadowferal]

As weird as it sounds, a measure of inconsistency is required to be believable. People in reality are not consistent, therefor if something is too consistent it becomes unbelievable. As we know circumstances matter, and slight differences could potentially alter results.

Had this conversation before..literally. I mentioned that how people speak, how they behave, some things just won't be consistent with the individual. I understand that.
But sone things that aren't related should be. And when they get shifted there should be something obvious that explains it. Loki was bulletproof, now he's not. He was barely moved by Cap, but then gets bitch slapped by Jane. I mean...the only explanation for inconsistency that makes "sense" is writer's fiat...or the one I hear all the time; "this is rhe mcu." Which seems to mean "as long as it entertains, it doesn't matter."

- - - Updated - - -

Game of Thrones Final Season they tossed consistency completely out the window and had characters act in ways that made little sense to what they did. They had toss character growth out the window just to shock people.

Heartfelt sympathy for everyone that stuck through it beginning to end. You all had known there wasn't going to be a happy ending to the storyline. But then they dragged you, the viewers, into that sickness forcing you to feel just as bad...

[Egomaniac]

Spidey is nailing him dozens of times/min; hitting him as hard as he can. And Firelord's strength level is 40 tons. So knocking him unconscious is doable. Yea...and in the comics he's 525 lbs.

Once again, you are insisting the Loki is a 30 tonner in the MCU because he is in the comics... but the MCU is not the comics. Loki has done nothing in the MCU to suggest he's a 30 tonner. Loki relies almost entirely on his magic in the movies...not his physical prowess.

[Darththeo]

Had this conversation before..literally. I mentioned that how people speak, how they behave, some things just won't be consistent with the individual. I understand that.
But sone things that aren't related should be. And when they get shifted there should be something obvious that explains it. Loki was bulletproof, now he's not. He was barely moved by Cap, but then gets bitch slapped by Jane. I mean...the only explanation for inconsistency that makes "sense" is writer's fiat...or the one I hear all the time; "this is rhe mcu." Which seems to mean "as long as it entertains, it doesn't matter."

Circumstances matter. We never see Captain America throw an unexpected punch. Loki was aware and knew he was going to be hit.

He didn't expect Jane to slap him.

Heartfelt sympathy for everyone that stuck through it beginning to end. You all had known there wasn't going to be a happy ending to the storyline. But then they dragged you, the viewers, into that sickness forcing you to feel just as bad...

The worse part of it is they were offered both more episodes and allowed longer ones too to finish the story properly.
But, once that got too far beyond the books, they had no clue what to do.

I was happy when it was announced they stepped away from doing a Star Wars Trilogy ... I already had enough problematic story telling with the ST.

[Shadowferal]

Circumstances matter. We never see Captain America throw an unexpected punch. Loki was aware and knew he was going to be hit.
He didn't expect Jane to slap him.

His muscles at rest should still keep his head from moving against that leaf hitting him...a face that should have a bone structure that is as dense as stone.
But really. As long as you're entertained...

I recall when the "six million dollar man" came out. Took me about a year before my young mind began having issues. ("No reinforcement of existing bone structure? Not possible" pretty sure my sibs wanted to slap me.) but I still tuned in because it was fun to watch.

[Darththeo]

His muscles at rest should still keep his head from moving against that leaf hitting him...a face that should have a bone structure that is as dense as stone.
But really. As long as you're entertained...

I recall when the "six million dollar man" came out. Took me about a year before my young mind began having issues. ("No reinforcement of existing bone structure? Not possible" pretty sure my sibs wanted to slap me.) but I still tuned in because it was fun to watch.

Do you think stone at rest is immovable?

[Syegfryed]

Do you understand the concept of a comparison or not? It cannot be a lie if it is comparing to what your argument is.

Your argument is more like the second, which is why people have a problem with it. If it was the first, people wouldn't care as much.

"more likely"

in short, you (and they) are attacking an argument i never made, people have a problem because they seek confrontation to win internet points, i said many times it was my own opinion and taste, but it was not enough, you can roll back some pages and see for yourself

[Shadowferal]

Do you think stone at rest is immovable?

Is that stone connected to equally strong connective tissue? (muscles, ligaments, tendons, etc)
That's why I compared the action to a "leaf hitting his face"

[Aurrora]

Once again, you are insisting the Loki is a 30 tonner in the MCU because he is in the comics... but the MCU is not the comics. Loki has done nothing in the MCU to suggest he's a 30 tonner. Loki relies almost entirely on his magic in the movies...not his physical prowess.

Well, we saw non-glamoured giant Loki in the party Thor episode, it's reasonable to believe he's a 30 tonner.

[Darththeo]

"more likely"

in short, you (and they) are attacking an argument i never made, people have a problem because they seek confrontation to win internet points, i said many times it was my own opinion and taste, but it was not enough, you can roll back some pages and see for yourself

Or, you aren't actually understanding how your argument is coming across and therefore are blaming people for a mistake you made.

If everyone is "attacking you for an argument you never made", the problem is more likely with you.

- - - Updated - - -

Is that stone connected to equally strong connective tissue? (muscles, ligaments, tendons, etc)
That's why I compared the action to a "leaf hitting his face"

Except that comparison is shit and you know it is.

[UnifiedDivide]

Can we stop relating the comics to the movies? They are not the same thing, they never have been. And this is some of the most tedious AF posting ever.

[Egomaniac]

Well, we saw non-glamoured giant Loki in the party Thor episode, it's reasonable to believe he's a 30 tonner.

Different Loki. That one was apparantly not the "runt" that the other Loki's usually are...because it would seem Laufey never abandoned that one.

[Syegfryed]

Or, you aren't actually understanding how your argument is coming across and therefore are blaming people for a mistake you made.

how my argument is coming across? i said >>I<<find those things in the movies/series shit, many times, how is this anything beyond my own opinion and taste?

If everyone is "attacking you for an argument you never made", the problem is more likely with you..

or maybe, just maybe, the problem is with people who get triggered by others opinion and taste

- - - Updated - - -

Is that stone connected to equally strong connective tissue? (muscles, ligaments, tendons, etc)
That's why I compared the action to a "leaf hitting his face"

but you see, if the leaf does a sneak attack is critical damage and the stone have no chance

we even saw in the loki series that he weight a lot, clearly a different constitution than humans, close to asgardians

Like, see how Hulk bitchslap him on the ground, that would have killed any human, the ground break and he only had scratches, (same thing he did to thor) then he get up later like it was not that big of a deal, then, this entity get bitchslapped by jane and kicked across the room by natasha

the writers clearly throwed the early movies away and focused on comic relief part

[Darththeo]

how my argument is coming across? i said >>I<<find those things in the movies/series shit, many times, how is this anything beyond my own opinion and taste?

I am sorry to you or do you not believe it is a fact Loki is portrayed inconsistently?

Because your posts come off that you are declaring it a fact that it is inconsistent not that you feel it is inconsistent or not consistent enough for your liking.

[Egomaniac]

I am sorry to you or do you not believe it is a fact Loki is portrayed inconsistently?

Because your posts come off that you are declaring it a fact that it is inconsistent not that you feel it is inconsistent or not consistent enough for your liking.

One thing I will say on Syegfryed's behalf is that English does not appear to be his first language...so, some...but probably not all, of the issue is he's not able to completely articulate what he's trying to say.

Of course, a lot of it is that he's just being stubborn and trying to have everything both ways. Claiming that he's not wrong because it's just his opinion...while at the same time proclaiming that anyone that disagrees with his opinion is wrong.

[Darththeo]

One thing I will say on Syegfryed's behalf is that English does not appear to be his first language...so, some...but probably not all, of the issue is he's not able to completely articulate what he's trying to say.

Of course, a lot of it is that he's just being stubborn and trying to have everything both ways. Claiming that he's not wrong because it's just his opinion...while at the same time proclaiming that anyone that disagrees with his opinion is wrong.

Based on what he has said, you are likely correct or at least he isn't from a country where English is the primary language.

Which I am trying to get final clarification on points in his argument.