Thread: Reality's end.

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  1. #61
    Everyone always gets this part wrong, that WoW 2 is the only way away from old code. As if WoW is still running on the original WC3 code it was created from. Games and engines get updated all the time. I highly doubt there is much code left in modern wow that was around in Vanilla WoW. Stuff gets removed, rewritten and updated all the time. It's the same mistake people make with Bethesda and their Creation Engine. Everyone always says they need to move away from Creation for the next game so they'll not have bugs that have been persistent through multiple ESO and Fallout games, yet the engine isn't actually the problem. They could fix those bugs easily if they wanted to, just by updating the Creation engine, they just haven't done it.

    WoW 2 would like run off the exact same code as a base as current WoW does unless they switched engines entirely, which is unlikely as they have entire teams trained to work with the current engine. If they did a WoW 2, it'll likely just be a content reset with a few minor updates and an extra coat of polish.

    Not that I'd be opposed to that though, frankly I'd quite like a reset of the WoW universe and the Jailer seems like the best villain to do that with.

  2. #62
    He's the only one that understands that we're all still in Ny'alotha. By ending reality, he means he's going to end the dream and wake us up.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    I actually find it interesting, we spent way too much of WoW's existence thinking that Titans were the creators, until we found out they sort of weren't. But then when you think about cosmology chart - they are just 1 of 6 major powers in the universe and quite clearly they did not create the 5 others.

    So, back to the thing at hand, we will be going to Sepulcher of the First Ones, the guys who allegedly set the whole thing in motion including the organization of 6 powers, in some way at least. What we will find in their tomb we don't know, but apparently it will be something that will upend the whole 6 powers balance/struggle and potentially affect the universe in a major way.
    I liked the Titan pantheon precisely because they clearly didn't create existence itself, they merely were able to mess around with what was already there. Them being part of six other major powers solidifies that. To then actually take a step higher and meet 'god' themselves is going to end terribly as 'the creator of it all' becomes a substitute for the author, in this case, Blizzard.

    These writers need to get it through their thick skulls that higher stakes doesn't mean more meaningful stake. Jaina reconciling with her family was a meaningful stake. Downing the final loot pinata of an expansion is a higher stake, but it's not any more meaningful than taking down Onyxia, or even Edwin van Cleef for the first time.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverware View Post
    He's the only one that understands that we're all still in Ny'alotha. By ending reality, he means he's going to end the dream and wake us up.
    Oh that'd be cool. I'm all for more Ny'alotha. Not to mention the Shadowlands being retconned as some crazy old god dream only makes things better.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Steelcryo View Post
    They could fix those bugs easily if they wanted to
    At this point in time fixing bugs of a 20 year old game engine is probably more time consuming than writing a new one.
    Especially if you consider that the programmers that initially wrote the code to debug are no longer around. Finding a bug in one's own code is difficult enough; finding a bug in someone elses code is extremely hard.

  5. #65
    High Overlord Larodar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    4) do you really trust THIS team of WoW devs to make WoW 2? I don’t
    You hit the bullseye with that, my friend.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    That's kind of a silly take too.

    Blizzard did not take inspiration from Marvel, we simply naturally got there over the course of 27 years of Warcraft. Already in Warcraft 1 we had concept of invaders from another realm, which got further fleshed out with Warcraft 2 and beyond the dark portal expansion and of course Warcraft 3 with cosmic powers creeping in.

    We tussled with powers far beyond Azeroth even before World of Warcraft was a thing. In Vanilla we were introduced to Titans and Old Gods (one can argue Old Gods came/teased in WIII Frozen Throne) - the whole game was setup to eventual discovery and confrontation with powers from beyond, certainly TBC+, long before MCU was even a thing.

    Yes, after a decade of WoW we finally started taking peeks and potshots at these powers, which is really natural for a game in such a universe. The whole things happening few last expansions are simply natural evolution expected in such games, you can't stay in same spot digging through animal shit in Redridge when you already took down biggest and notables like Lich King, Deathwing and slapped Kiljaeden, the literal no.2 in the cosmic Burning Legion on his face.

    We simply worked our way up and it was inevitable. It has nothing to do with Marvel or crap like that.
    I mean Zovaal is Thanos, its obvious to everyone, but not to you, somehow.

  7. #67
    The amazing result would be Zovaal becoming a major enemy for multiple expansions and fucking with the OG world to make it more interesting - spice things up.

    In reality, we're going to get a closed off section of a fucked up reality that Zovaal messes with in a new zone / dungeon / raids and then that's it - we won't do much else other than that. While still neat, it'll be less than stellar if that's what they want to go with. I'm going to expect him to be defeated by 9.3 and things will return to 'normal' and that's that.

    I really hope that's not what happens, but Blizzard's track record to change the world permanently (Or on a bigger scale) only lasted with Cataclysm.

  8. #68
    He wants to remake reality by becoming it's new supreme master and rule all.


    ???


    Generic villain aspirations.

  9. #69
    Zovaal desiring to remake reality would be an opportune time to rewrite the game. Hashtag wishful thinking.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Dellis0991 View Post
    The Dreadlords are the real 4d chess players everyone else just dancing to their tune.
    Until we inevitably discover the omegaovergigalords who planned everything all along. And then superultralords who planned for omegaovergigalords to plan everything... etc etc...

    It's really the nature of these things, WoW has another good 10-15 years to go the least, we will inevitably reveal yet another that one enemy that had it all figured out all along... or 5 of them.
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  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by guldin View Post
    I mean Zovaal is Thanos, its obvious to everyone, but not to you, somehow.
    Yes because clearly a villain gathering power artifacts for its own ends is some sort of completely new and unique theme never seen anywhere before Thanos.

    This is pretty much a stock fantasy games trope, somehow pointing at it and yelling "lul it's Thanos!!" is just silly, when games do exactly same thing for decades now.
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  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Yes because clearly a villain gathering power artifacts for its own ends is some sort of completely new and unique theme never seen anywhere before Thanos.

    This is pretty much a stock fantasy games trope, somehow pointing at it and yelling "lul it's Thanos!!" is just silly, when games do exactly same thing for decades now.

    The plot is the same.
    Last edited by guldin; 2021-07-10 at 12:08 PM.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by KaneLivesInDeath View Post
    He wants to remake reality by becoming it's new supreme master and rule all.


    ???


    Generic villain aspirations.
    This pretty much.

    I have no clue why people link it to Marvel. This shit is overused in the whole genre that you can basically spit and hit a dozen of such villains we seen in various games over several decades.

    Quote Originally Posted by guldin View Post
    The plot is the same, are you delusional?
    Chill... You somehow think the theme of some bad gathering artifacts to do take over the world is some sort of totally unheard of thing before Thanos. That's just funny really.

    Load just about every other RPG game made over last 30 years and you have the very same thing happening in at least half of them.
    Last edited by Gaidax; 2021-07-10 at 12:10 PM.
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  14. #74
    Bloodsail Admiral Cloudmaker's Avatar
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    To have Jailer dominating everything in deaths realm he will have to destroy not only the reality but everything thats sourounding it, including the creators which are the First Ones. I think I know who they are already but I wont say anything unless it's confirmed.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    This pretty much.

    I have no clue why people link it to Marvel. This shit is overused in the whole genre that you can basically spit and hit a dozen of such villains we seen in various games over several decades.
    If you have no clue, then it's your personal problem.

    Solution? Watch Infinity War and Endgame, come back and compare it to Zovaal. Plot is the same, mad titan who is gathering keys (infinity stones) to change reality / balance the universe

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    I want to be in a parallel universe where we still fight cultists and bandits in 9.1. The only thing that would not be different in that universe is MMO-C telling us how shit and boring that is and could we please have a greater threat. And I would agree.
    Sounds way better than the universe we're in now.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by guldin View Post
    If you have no clue, then it's your personal problem.

    Solution? Watch Infinity War and Endgame, come back and compare it to Zovaal. Plot is the same, mad titan who is gathering keys (infinity stones) to change reality / balance the universe
    I already watched these and you project that onto WoW for some insane reason.

    I told you 5 times, this kind of storyline is a bloody classic RPG trope. As if we did not have some stock villain no.2343 bloody gather Children of Bhaal souls all the fucking back in Baldur's Gate to ascend godhood back in fucking late 90s.
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  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by PenguinChan View Post
    The amazing result would be Zovaal becoming a major enemy for multiple expansions and fucking with the OG world to make it more interesting - spice things up.

    In reality, we're going to get a closed off section of a fucked up reality that Zovaal messes with in a new zone / dungeon / raids and then that's it.
    Absolutely. Zovaal, just like any of the villains Blizzard would create from here on out, will need multiple expansions to fully develop a feud with the players. Killing him and replacing him for the next big bland isn't solving anything.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivarr View Post
    Absolutely. Zovaal, just like any of the villains Blizzard would create from here on out, will need multiple expansions to fully develop a feud with the players. Killing him and replacing him for the next big bland isn't solving anything.
    Zovaal is just a throwaway nobody to progress the story as a whole. He will bite the dust in 9.2 and we will get a tease of what's next as a result of him pushing the plot further.
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  20. #80
    When I think about good villains, I like to imagine what they would do after they succeed. If you have a clear image of what they would do, the villain is good.

    Zooval... we literally don't even know if he would leave the Maw, if he would rule everything, ... nothing. Some villains even plan to do nothing (Thanos) and you still have a better idea of what's going on with them. I can literally imagine waking up in the morning and painting pictures of the scenery, before an afternoon nap. Zooval on the other hand, I have no idea.

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