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  1. #41
    Legendary! Dellis0991's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    No. I'm pretty sure i do.
    People are tired of being the hero all the time.
    Villians die in wow (villians or lose in most settings) it's doesn't matter when or how but in the end they die/lose....why would you want to be on the side that is getting swords and spells shoved up theirs asses?

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Dellis0991 View Post
    Villians die in wow (villians or lose in most settings) it's doesn't matter when or how but in the end they die/lose....why would you want to be on the side that is getting swords and spells shoved up theirs asses?
    Maybe they shouldn't lose all the time.
    Are you really enjoying having that 'Hero' label shoved on to your character every expansion? even if you play evil races and classes?

  3. #43
    Legendary! Dellis0991's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Maybe they shouldn't lose all the time.
    Are you really enjoying having that 'Hero' label shoved on to your character every expansion? even if you play evil races and classes?
    Hell yeah I love being the hero, wow villains are boring mustache twirling ass clowns with zero depth, hell our faction leaders are better villains when they dive into grey area fuckery.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Dellis0991 View Post
    Hell yeah I love being the hero, wow villains are boring mustache twirling ass clowns with zero depth, hell our faction leaders are better villains when they dive into grey area fuckery.
    Even as a bad character?
    I don't get it... it doesn't get boring and feel out of character after some time?

  5. #45
    Legendary! Dellis0991's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Even as a bad character?
    I don't get it... it doesn't get boring and feel out of character after some time?
    If it's big baddie faction then its useless because your days are marked, you are by default fucked. There is no progress to be made, you are literally cannon fodder to get shitted on.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Cathbadh View Post
    WoW barely has enough players for two factions
    That's debatable. They are definitely pushing it. Look at the Alliance hall of Fame.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Dellis0991 View Post
    If it's big baddie faction then its useless because your days are marked, you are by default fucked. There is no progress to be made, you are literally cannon fodder to get shitted on.
    I didn't mean in a practical way.
    But, for immersion and RP purposes.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dellis0991 View Post
    Villians die in wow (villians or lose in most settings) it's doesn't matter when or how but in the end they die/lose....why would you want to be on the side that is getting swords and spells shoved up theirs asses?
    Heroes also die. Some even sacrifice themselves and that's why they are called heroes. They are willing to sacrifice their lives for others.

    You die as a villain fighting for your cause or ideology or out self interest and motive.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dellis0991 View Post
    If it's big baddie faction then its useless because your days are marked, you are by default fucked. There is no progress to be made, you are literally cannon fodder to get shitted on.
    But baddies too have the other side of the story being told coming from their perspective.

    You can have a different story to tell if you are looking on a character from his/her perspective, someone else with her or against her and the story would be different.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Dellis0991 View Post
    Hell yeah I love being the hero, wow villains are boring mustache twirling ass clowns with zero depth, hell our faction leaders are better villains when they dive into grey area fuckery.
    I agree with this, WoW villains have very little depth/reasoning/motives you can even remotely relate to, they just exist to get killed. I'd love a more down to earth expansion with some actual intrigue, but for now all the villains are 90s cosmic comic book villains who ramble about the universe and laws of existance before they get offed.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woobels View Post
    I agree with this, WoW villains have very little depth/reasoning/motives you can even remotely relate to, they just exist to get killed. I'd love a more down to earth expansion with some actual intrigue, but for now all the villains are 90s cosmic comic book villains who ramble about the universe and laws of existance before they get offed.
    Sylvanas actively taking the villain's role? Illidan during TBC? And perhaps you will learn the true story behind Arthras taking up the mantle of the Lich King in Shadowlands.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    Sylvanas actively taking the villain's role? Illidan during TBC? And perhaps you will learn the true story behind Arthras taking up the mantle of the Lich King in Shadowlands.
    Your head canon "theory" still doesn't explain why Anduin would team up with Sylvanas.

  12. #52
    Yeap... all what WoW need is 3rd faction and dividing players base more....

  13. #53
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragi View Post
    Yeap... all what WoW need is 3rd faction and dividing players base more....
    What do you mean divided? Everyone plays Horde now, right?

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by dragi View Post
    Yeap... all what WoW need is 3rd faction and dividing players base more....
    There's no division if you get to choose. Plus, it is suggested that they let cross-faction play, but keeping the rivalry in lore.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    There's no division if you get to choose. Plus, it is suggested that they let cross-faction play, but keeping the rivalry in lore.
    For cross faction play i signing with all hands and legs.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calfredd View Post
    Your head canon "theory" still doesn't explain why Anduin would team up with Sylvanas.
    maybe this will answer your questioning about my theory..

  17. #57
    What is even the purpose of a neutral faction from a game design point of view?

    It serves no real purpose. It doesn't help the devs, it certainly doesn't help the fanbase, and if you really wanted to solve a faction problem then you'd make 1 faction, not 3.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    There's no division if you get to choose. Plus, it is suggested that they let cross-faction play, but keeping the rivalry in lore.
    There is always a division as long as certain races are tied to certain factions.

    For it to be lore-only, it would have to be set up like Guild Wars 2 where you get to choose one of three Factions, and all races are inclusive to them. Factions denote your story and allegiance and somewhat of a significance in World PVP, but otherwise have no gameplay limitations.

    I doubt we see the day with all races being individualized to allow you to choose any faction, given that the Alliance and Horde have way too much baggage to start opening up like that now. The writers have a bad enough time progressing the current lore, any attempt at shifting faction politics for the future would just be catastrophic in their hands.

    Covenants is literally that system right now, and I can bet a lot of people don't have a lot of personal investment in what Covenant they chose outside of giving them some ability boost they deemed mandatory. The RP aspect of Covenants is very shallow, and considering how much effort they put into fleshing it all out, I doubt many people have any deep connection to anyone else in their Covenant. There's no 'FOR THE HORDE!' feeling of connecting with any of the 4 Covenants right now, and that's exactly how opening up the factions and leaving them to lore would feel like in the end.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-08-11 at 05:07 PM.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    What is even the purpose of a neutral faction from a game design point of view?

    It serves no real purpose. It doesn't help the devs, it certainly doesn't help the fanbase, and if you really wanted to solve a faction problem then you'd make 1 faction, not 3.
    it was pretty clear that WoW is slowly introducing choices, Sylvanas apologist/Pro Horde, Team gift of flesh vs. normies.

    The third faction is basically team Shadowlands in another time traveling expac. Since the concept of death is unrelated to life on Azeroth, as if unnatural and antithesis to the ordering of things. Thank you meddlesome Pantheon for screwing with Azeroth.

    BfA is death related
    Shadowlands is Death related
    10.0 will be death related and the story of origination must be undone.

    The Reorigination protocol failed when we defeated Algalon, well as if some titan will receive that distress signal. Zovaal's taking the matters in his own hands this time.

    You may stick to your colors if you like, otherwise you can go morally grey and in between.
    Last edited by vertigo12; 2021-08-11 at 05:09 PM.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    it was pretty clear that WoW is slowly introducing choices, Sylvanas apologist/Pro Horde, Team gift of flesh vs. normies.

    The third faction is basically team Shadowlands in another time traveling expac. Since the concept of death is unrelated to life on Azeroth, as if unnatural and antithesis to the ordering of things. Thank you meddlesome Pantheon for screwing with Azeroth.

    BfA is death related
    Shadowlands is Death related
    10.0 will be death related and the story of origination must be undone.

    The Reorigination protocol failed when we defeated Algalon, well as if some titan will receive that distress signal. Zovaal's taking the matters in his own hands this time.

    You may stick to your colors if you like, otherwise you can go morally grey and in between.
    And it serves no purpose.

    Blizzard already separates the game into 2 with Horde side and Alliance side specific quests to keep it flavoured. Adding a 3rd serves no purpose but to add more work to themselves, and they'd rather just make purely linear content that both factions can do rather than divide it further. And for there to be a 3rd faction means they need to dedicate story moments to make each faction feel unique or purposeful for it to even matter in the lore.

    Otherwise you could already RP yourself as the 3rd faction by playing a Death Knight or Illidari, which already exists outside of the Alliance and Horde and your character is simply treated as an agent working for either faction who are otherwise bound to their organizations. You are still absolutely morally grey, just that you have to pay money to swap your faction, as it's always been.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-08-11 at 05:17 PM.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    What is even the purpose of a neutral faction from a game design point of view?

    It serves no real purpose. It doesn't help the devs, it certainly doesn't help the fanbase, and if you really wanted to solve a faction problem then you'd make 1 faction, not 3.
    Currently there's no point to factions to begin with as world pvp is non-existent.

    However, should world-pvp be made relevant then it would help if there were more than two factions, preferably more than three factions. This makes it much harder for one faction to gain the upper-hand and dominate a server as the smaller factions tend to band up together.

    Ideally players should be able to defect to other factions if they chose to as well.

    So this is where Blizzard is on to something with the Covenants. People currently don't like Covenant due to the way they lock you into PvE and tie the aesthetics to your skills and abilities.

    So separate covenants as they are right now, including their SL lore, and consider how they help break up potential gameplay. Imagine a Gnome & Goblin covenant, a Pirate covenant, a Moon covenant, or an elven covenant. All themes, they're not excluding races (that's interesting from a lore point of view but doesn't suit what I'm trying to say here).

    However in a WoW where world PVP is relevant, the pvp could be fought between Covenants in the form of sub-factions. Covenants could start dominating territories on the world map.

    One trick Blizzard is also missing is competitive PvE. Think the Ahn Qiraj war effort, except this time it's weekly and zone-specific. The covenants could be putting their dungeon and world quests into particular zones and being the highest performing covenant in a zone gives you special privileges in that zone (resource gathering, professions, instance buffs, unlocking special locations) for the next week.

    Obviously the pve race should be balanced with some restraints on the majority covenant and extra perks for the underdog. Likewise, changing covenant can only be done once every week (or two) to prevent people from defecting to the apparent winner for the current week.

    All of this creates a ton of player-generated gameplay. Rather than players getting time-gated, they end up getting competition-gated as no covenant can possibly dominate in all aspects of the game.

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